CAT to buy EMD from GM

[Anonymous]

Watching the 10pm news here (in Peoria il) and was stated by NEWS25--
Catapillar has put in a bid to buy GM's locomotive division and its Lagrane plat (or whats left of it) and all of the london plant!!!!!! Alot of hurdles to go over but has anyone heard this as well or is it just me? Cat has preivois locomotive experience and GM has long wanted to get out of the locomotive business. Aren't the GP15D and GP20D locomotives powered by CAT engines? There listed as GM products. This is a very intersenting proposion...................

[dharmon]

This is what CNBC had on the wire......it is indeed an interseting proposition if it goes through.....


Caterpillar in talks to buy GM unit-union official
May 25, 2004 1:10:00 PM ET
By Michael Ellis
DETROIT, May 25 (Reuters) - Heavy equipment maker Caterpillar Inc. (CAT) has joined the bidding to buy General Motors Corp.'s (GM) locomotive unit but is facing stiff opposition from a Canadian union, a top union official said on Tuesday.

The head of the Canadian Auto Workers union, which represents workers at the GM Electro-Motive plant in London, Ontario, said he opposed Caterpillar's interest because of its past labor problems.

"Caterpillar is now in the running. We've expressed our dissatisfaction (with Caterpillar) to both Caterpillar and GM," Buzz Hargrove, president of the CAW, told Reuters.

A representative of Peoria, Illinois-based Caterpillar declined to confirm or deny the company's interest in GM Electro-Motive, one of the world's largest builders of diesel train locomotives.

"On any given day, Caterpillar may be in contact with a number of other companies about potential business opportunities, many of which never progress behind the preliminary discussion phase," said Caterpillar spokesman Rusty Dunn.

A GM official declined to comment.

Two private equity funds have also been in joint discussions with GM to buy the unit, Hargrove and a source familiar with the talks said. The two are Greenbrier Equity Group, a $700 million fund led by former Chrysler Corp. Vice Chairman Gerald Greenwald, and Berkshire Partners, a $3.5 billion buyout fund.

Electro-Motive also builds diesel power engines for boats, oil rigs and power generators, and is based in LaGrange, Illinois. GM does not disclose financial results for Electro-Motive, but the source familiar with the talks said it is losing money.

LABOR TROUBLE

Caterpillar's shutdown of a plant in Ontario more than 10 years ago soured its relations with the CAW, Hargrove said. Caterpillar has also had a stormy relationship with the United Auto Workers in the United States, which represents Electro-Motive workers in Illinois.

Caterpillar's 8,000 workers represented by the UAW have been working without a contract since April 25, when they voted to reject what the company termed its "final offer."

Hargrove said GM told him that Caterpillar was a "serious" contender but his union's opposition would complicate discussions. GM has been trying to improve its labor relations and has to keep relations friendly with the CAW after the sale of Electro-Motive because the union represents workers at GM's vehicle assembly plants in Canada, Hargrove said. The new owners will also have to work with the union, he said.

"If you're going to make anything work, you have to have a relationship with the union," Hargrove said.

GM has steadily sold off many of its nonautomotive units to raise funds to cover its pension and health-care costs. Over the past two years, GM has sold its stake in Hughes Electronics Corp. (GMH) to Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Ltd. (NWS) and the bulk of its defense business to General Dynamics Corp. (GD) (Additional reporting by Karen Padley) REUTERS

© 2004 Reuters

[Puckdropper]

The IAIS goes right by one CAT plant just north of Peoria. They could use a few new engines on the IAIS, for sure...

Since CAW has put in a bid too, why not break up the GM like Conrail so they can have CAT-CAW? Mookie will be quick to comment on my bad pun... (The real mookie may roll her eyes...)

[Mookie]

Mookie nearly tore up her puter trying to open this one when she saw CAT. But even silly Mook had heard this one. Been waiting to see what developed.

You are right - that is a seriously bad pun![V]

[Modelcar]

....Seems to me GM has wanted out of the Locomotive building business for some time now and perhaps it's finally coming to a head. So many directions for GM in the past few decades almost like they couldn't make up their mind what they wanted to do.....From the conversations I've seen on here about their products from RR people it sounds like they have a good product but just didn't want to really put in the effort [and or money], to continue...Wonder why.

[heavyd]

One major problem if CAT does take over - all the locos they make will come in one colour only - CAT yellow. LOL

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by heavyd

One major problem if CAT does take over - all the locos they make will come in one colour only - CAT yellow. LOL

So it'll be prepainted for a UP-CSX merger...Yellow with a cat!

[Anonymous]

Cndtr: What are you Riding?


Engnr: Just a CAT!!


LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by heavyd

One major problem if CAT does take over - all the locos they make will come in one colour only - CAT yellow. LOL

So it'll be prepainted for a UP-CSX merger...Yellow with a cat!

LOL![:D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Here kitty kitty!!!

[Anonymous]

I'd love to see a SD-80 in CAT paint. It would look pretty tough.

Do you think that they'll offer locomotives with 6 way blades on the front, front end loader attachments, dump boxes, ripper teeth for the back, etc?

Maybe they'll change the nomenclature to classify their locomotives.....

All of the model names will have a D-9 in front of them.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dblstack

I'd love to see a SD-80 in CAT paint. It would look pretty tough.

Do you think that they'll offer locomotives with 6 way blades on the front, front end loader attachments, dump boxes, ripper teeth for the back, etc?

Maybe they'll change the nomenclature to classify their locomotives.....

All of the model names will have a D-9 in front of them.

I think we'll be lucky if they offer them with flanged wheels.[swg]

[trainfan1221]

I don`t understand why GM is so intent on selling, they have a lot of history and a good product. I think CAT buying them might not be the best move. After all, except for smaller applications their past interests in entering the locomotive market have been relatively unsuccesful.

[Anonymous]

This may give railroads a new business opportunity- Rail served building and road construction!

LOL

[Anonymous]

I guess I must have been hiding under a rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a bad feeling about this. I bet the first thing CAT does is drop the EMD 710 engine for their own and that will be the beginning of the end

[Allen Jenkins]

Simple!. Caterpiller continues the EMDcarbody, picks up on EMD Software, continues The Electro-Motive Division of Caterpillar (yea, I had to stop and think 'bout that one), and sells the EMD prime mover back to Dietroit Diesel Division, 'cause what would the world be like without that two-cycle humming bird. The high pressure-fuel-injection, precision UAW built-in the-United States of America CAT Diesel Power Rules the world anyway! Enjoy PuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrffffffffffeeeeeeeeeeCttttttiiiiooonnnn!!!! ACJ.

[M636C]

Allen,

Detroit Diesel is now owned by (German) Daimler Chrysler and is a part of MTU. Many of their larger engines, the 2000, and 4000 series, are built in Germany. The EMD engines have only ever been built at La Grange, haven't they? I don't believe any engines were ever built in London (although some may have been built in Cleveland in past years). On the other hand, I thought CAT built some of their smaller engines in Asia, and the biggest engines, the 3618 series, are only built in Spain by an associate. CAT uses a patented fuel injection system called HUEI (for hydraulically actuated electronic unit injection) which eliminates high pressure lines. Detroit and MTU are the guys pushing the high pressure "common rail" system which could be dangerous if mistreated.

And shouldn't there be at least one "c" in perfection, even if a CAT is pronouncing it?

I would say that the 265H (265mm bore) is much more at risk than the 710. the 3600 series is 270mm in bore, pretty close to the H series, while the 710 has such a large user base they will have to keep making spares (at least) for years.

All of this based on CAT actually buying EMD - it's not yet definite. But the CAT purchase might be better than the organisation going away or being run by people who don't know the industry! There are rumours about MAN B&W selling Ruston Paxman, and of Rolls Royce buying MTU and DD. Let's hang in there and watch!

Peter

[Mookie]

I get a little lost in all the alphabet being passed around, but seems to me that Mr Blysard works with the MK1500 and aren't they CAT engines? Someone will correct me if I am wrong - but he seems to think very highly of those engines.

Unfortunately all my engine info is at home and I am here and well, I just know all you will straighten me out!

Mook

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I get a little lost in all the alphabet being passed around, but seems to me that Mr Blysard works with the MK1500 and aren't they CAT engines? Someone will correct me if I am wrong - but he seems to think very highly of those engines.

Unfortunately all my engine info is at home and I am here and well, I just know all you will straighten me out!

Mook

Yeah, they have CAT engines. If this EMD/CAT thing happens MPI (the maker of MK1500's, MK5000's ect) will really be the loser.

[Anonymous]

ive worked with caterpillar. they make the best heavy machines in the industry. so if they buy emd, the product will just get better.. we might finally see the sd100 thats 10 years late!!! in 10 to 20 years cat plans to make everything in mexico, s. america.thanks to the unions with high wages, high absenteeism, protecting the lazy do nothing employee and the union officials stealing us workers money. and much more. unions are good in safety and other sources but can be corrupt as the co. they rep. too bad, so sad. the world is getting worse.

[espeefoamer]

When CAT buys EMD,maybe they will build diesels with a shovel attchment like the diesel in the Thomas the Tank Engine movie.[:0]

[heavyd]

CAT does make good stuff. I am a heavy diesel technician, hence the nickname Heavy-D. I have been a truck mechanic for years. CAT engines are ok for trucks but they are the most expensive to overhaul compaired to DD or Cummins. But when it comes to the heavy equipment side I think this CAT/EMD thing might be cool! GM seems to not give a rat's a#$ anymore and CAT would jump right in both feet first. Sounds like labour issues will kill the plan though.

[Allen Jenkins]

Thank M636C, I 'C' what you mean, and I put phonics in the fuel. I'm still mostly in the mechanical era, kinda stunned by the press release, and found your reply to be most informative. (Yours too Mookie!) I didn't know about DD, last I heard John Deere taught them how to build a 4 cycle, which up until recently made a revolution in the trucking industry. The 3406B, the last truck engine I drove, was mechanical fuel injected, from a pump gear driven off the accessary drive(front), with flyweight type governor. It used poppet type injectors, fed by indiviual steel fuel lines, which could not be substituted with copper, for reasons you mentioned. I know you new this, and I thank you for your contribution, as you know I study Diesel, as a hobby. The MK5000 used a 3512 series, with awesome specs. 5000 locomotive horsepower, and it is just a V12! The 3616, is rated 6650hp at the flywheel. I expected EMD to hookup with that, however, they went and spent four-hundred million US dollars to develope the Series 265H. (I heard the Western European craftsmen, laughed at the EMD 2cycle). Anyway, I can't wait to hear any one or maybe two of those beasts in run eight, with 14,000 tons, on any grade! Enjoy your ALCo memories! Allen.

[csxengineer98]

great... if this goes down..... my father in law might be designing my work toys... but on the upside...i might actualy be able to get a cab that is user friendly.... since i might have an iside track..lol
csx engineer

[edblysard]