Today's the day!!!!!!!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by redflasher

Over budget. Way over budget. Minnesota taxpayers will pay for a very few miles of light rail line. Unless you live along the line, you will still have to drive somewhere to access it. Where would you park? How many people within walking distance of the rail actually go to the airport or MOA on a regular basis. What will be left of your car when you return since the bad guys would probably figure out that a passenger on the rail won't be back for awhile. Might be okay for someone who works downtown and wants to avoid the bus. There's too much sprawl in the Twin Cities area to make this practical. Metro drivers love their private vehicles.

As much as I am a rail fan, I must admit that the reality of this project is less than spectacular from the perspective of cost / benefit. Today was the first day of revenue operation, and it will be interesting to hear what kind of ridership numbers they saw.

I don't know how badly the project did on budget for construction, but operation is a different story. Here are some more links, the first one has the construction funding sources.

http://www.lightrail.com/projects/hiawatha/hiawatha.htm
http://www.lightrail.com/maps/minneapolis/minneapolis.htm
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/lrt/

The project was definately late in coming on line, so that may have increased costs.

As far as MY using the line goes, I doubt I will ever use it as transportation. Even when going to a baseball game, it is cheaper and easier to park my truck near the dome and walk in. For $3 I can park at a meter. It would cost at least $5 for 2 people to ride the train round trip.

I don't like the arguement about auto break ins, that strikes me as simple paranoia. This is no different from any park and ride situation. But saying that people won't ride because they won't give up their cars is sad but true. I wasn't a mass transit rider before this, and for me nothing has changed. I have always thought that the real ridreship will come from tourists and a small group of commuters. It might be enough to fund operation at better than 50%. Time will tell.

[Anonymous]

Great shots, always good to see Light Rail in Action.

Keep us updated on the ridership, please.

[redflasher1]

Over budget. Way over budget. Minnesota taxpayers will pay for a very few miles of light rail line. Unless you live along the line, you will still have to drive somewhere to access it. Where would you park? How many people within walking distance of the rail actually go to the airport or MOA on a regular basis. What will be left of your car when you return since the bad guys would probably figure out that a passenger on the rail won't be back for awhile. Might be okay for someone who works downtown and wants to avoid the bus. There's too much sprawl in the Twin Cities area to make this practical. Metro drivers love their private vehicles.

[Modelcar]

We had a steet car system here in Muncie too...abandoned in 1931 and also had an interurban system that ran like spokes of a wheel radiating out from here and that system quit running in 1941...just before WWII began. If if would have lasted 10 months longer it could have serverd very well during the war years with everything automotive being in short supply or rationed. I know of at least one intersection in a residental section of the city the rails are still at the surface never paved over...Cement street.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Great photos of a new event....Wonder why it has taken so long for major communities to establi***he "lost" art of moving people as done half a century ago in so many places.....Guess I can answer that myself: Politics, money and the public's attitudes....
Question: As light rail makes it's way around a 90 degree street turn..[maybe not in this system], has anyone ever witnessed HOW they bend the rails in such a sharp radius..?
The city nearest to my former home...Johnstown, Pa. had such a system almost 50 years ago and it traveled on city streets in much of the routes and I often wondered about that then as the curves have to be sharp to do that...Bending rail in a nice uniform radius can't be an easy task....What kind of machine is employed to do this...? Anyone have any thoughts on this.....

A RAIL BENDER[?][}:)]
Sorry about the pun,I couldn't resist.
That one IS interesting![:D][:p]
BTW,thanks for the great pics,please keep it up.

[Modelcar]

...Great photos of a new event....Wonder why it has taken so long for major communities to establi***he "lost" art of moving people as done half a century ago in so many places.....Guess I can answer that myself: Politics, money and the public's attitudes....
Question: As light rail makes it's way around a 90 degree street turn..[maybe not in this system], has anyone ever witnessed HOW they bend the rails in such a sharp radius..?
The city nearest to my former home...Johnstown, Pa. had such a system almost 50 years ago and it traveled on city streets in much of the routes and I often wondered about that then as the curves have to be sharp to do that...Bending rail in a nice uniform radius can't be an easy task....What kind of machine is employed to do this...? Anyone have any thoughts on this.....

[cherokee woman]

Big Boy, you got some FANTASTIC shots there!! Those pics are great!! Glad
you and Big Girl enjoyed your day!! Let's hope the crowd doesn't diminish.

[JoeKoh]

Big Boy
if its something new everyone has to try it! lets just hope enough keep it going.
stay safe
Joe

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks guys!! What a day, and what a ZOO!!! Big Girl and I got over there about 11 AM, and got right on. Free rides all day today and Sunday, even the busses were free. The problem was that when we got to the south end of the line, everyone had to get off and get in line to get back on. So rather than ride the train, we took a bus which ran the route, but didn't parallel the tracks the whole way. Here is car 102 ready to load up and head back north after our first ride.



There are 12 stations open right now, but the last few miles on the south end won't be open until December. The south end may be what makes the line most useful, because of the airport, the Mall of America, and a lot of parking associated with those stops.

There were special events at every stop. Also at each stop ther was a Metro Transit booth, handing out all kinds of souvenir stuff and information about the system. But maybe the coolest thing was the passport. A little booklet telling the days events at all the stops along the line, and on the last page there was a place to collect stamps from all the stations. We managed to hit 10 out of 12.



We got the train on at Franklin Avenue, and rode to Fort Snelling, then took the bus, stopping at all the stops except VA up through 38th Street. At 38th, the lines were short enough that we could just jump on going north into downtown, so we rode to the end of the line. In the end we managed to ride the train through every station once, and a couple of stations twice.



Fifth street in downtown Minneapolis used to be a beautiful 4 lane wide one way street, but no more. It is now a chopped up mess with strange traffic configurations, as the light rail runs right down the middle. Some sections no longer allow any car traffic, others have a single lane on one side, and one section has a single lane on each side of the rails. The trains lose the right of way, and have to obey the regular traffic signals, though they have special indicators which use a white bar either verticle for go, or horizontal for stop. Here we see a northbound train stopped as a southbound train arrives at the Government Plaza station in the middle of what used to be Fifth Street. The stone building in the background is Minneapolis City Hall.



We ended up walking from the Warehouse District station all the way through downtown, and back to where we left the truck, a distance of a little over 2 miles. Along the way, we stopped at all the booths to get our passports stamped. The lines to get back on were just too long to stand and wait. Monday morning, reality sinks in, as the real operation begins. I doubt that there will be the kind of crowds that we saw today. Sad but true.

[JoeKoh]

big boy
they are talking about bringing back light rail to the toledo area too.thanks for the great pics.
stay safe
Joe

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Has there ever been another technology that was born,flourished for a while,almost died,then was reborn?

I don't think so, there is something special about steel rails and flanged wheels.[:D][8D][;)][^]

Here's a great link to the historical part of this story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_City_Rapid_Transit#External_links

Big Boy 4005,
There is something SPECIAL about steel rails and flanged wheels?
Otherwise,we would not be here today,talking about them!

BTW Congrats on the good pictures! I just wi***he powers to be here in
Louisville,would look at,listen to other cities!

[Big_Boy_4005]

I didn't bother to start a new topic for this. The new light rail line in Minneapolis is going to open in a few minutes. Big Girl and I are on our way out for a free ride this morning, camera in hand. Should be fun, look here for photos in the morning.

[wallyworld]

According to Bill Middleton, the term was originally derived from the "limited tramway" concept. All this means is that instead of exclusively utilizing the streets as a right of way, it uses private right of way, reserved median etc to avoid the constraints of automobile traffic. it has nothing to do with the rails themselves but is a compromise between the earlier design concept and the present day.. Protected grade crossings instead of grade seperations, multiple unit operation, higher seating capacities are all improvements that are part of this evolution. I enjoyed those photos. I look forward to our Charlotte NC line being in operation soon.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks Mac, sorry, I've been a modeler too long, at least I was half right. Live and learn, that's part of the reason I come here.[oops][:I][swg]

Puckdropper, you are absolutely correct about the mall. This I do know better than rail weights. I was one of the original tenants there 12 years ago. I owned and operated a train display called enterTRAINment. Great concept, but a financial disaster. The layout was featured in both MR and Classic Toy Trains magazines in the fall of 1993. See my profile for the exact issues.

In defense of MNDot road design and marking, the usually do a much better job and not so much strange crap. But, in this case, they had limited space and a lot to squeeze in to get the access that they wanted for that dump.

[PNWRMNM]

Big Boy

Railroads do not use "code" in connection with rails. They are specified by weight, for example 115 pounds per yard or 136 pounds. The per yard is usually dropped in informal conversation. Most modern transit acutally use freight standard rail weights since it is cheaper to do so than to get into specialized weights and sections.

You are right that axle loadings are lighter than freight, but I suspect if you checked most modern construction is 115# or better.

Mac

[Puckdropper]

I'm glad to see this... We went to the Tourist Trap of America (The best thing there was the Apple Computer Store.) last summer, and I've never seen such a horrible road system. All kinds of exit lefts, and sudden lane endings, and lane merges are just WEIRD!

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm not sure when the term "light rail" was coined, but it is accurate. Both the trains or street cars and the actual rails are much lighter than those used for regular passenger or commuter cars.

Rail weights are measuerd in pounds per yard, and normal railroad mainlines are usually over 120. The term "code" is used, so rail weighing 120 pounds per yard would be called code 120 rail[oops].("Code" is for modelers.) There is no need to use rail that heavy for these light weight cars. These rails are probably around code 100#, maybe smaller.

One fully loaded grain hopper weighs a lot more than a fully loaded LRV.[swg]

[UPTRAIN]

When were the first light rails built? Also why are they called light rails? Are the rails really lighter, they look the same as regular freight track rails.

[Anonymous]

I always say Vancouver would be soo much better off if they had never gotten rid of the interurbans.

Gridlock is a common problem here in the lower mainland nowaday's and believe me, all hell breaks loose if a car breaks down or there is an accident and a lane gets blocked for a few minutes.

Translink here in Vancouver is currently trying to get a new Light Rail system in the works, but it has already been voted down once. Not too sure if it's gonna happen, so I'll just have to stick to sitting still in my car for at least a few more years.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Has there ever been another technology that was born,flourished for a while,almost died,then was reborn?

I don't think so, there is something special about steel rails and flanged wheels.[:D][8D][;)][^]

Here's a great link to the historical part of this story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_City_Rapid_Transit#External_links

[espeefoamer]

Has there ever been another technology that was born,flourished for a while,almost died,then was reborn?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Light Rail's Revenge -- The Twin Cities Come Full Circle after 50 years, almost to the day.

Prehaps the Ventura administration's greatest legacy is now scheduled to open on June 26th. The opening was originally set for April, but a transit worker's strike lasting over a month delayed that.

The Hiawatha light rail line, will connect Downtown Minneapolis with the airport, and eventually the Mall of America. The entire line should be open some time next year, as construction from the airport to the mall is well under way.

Last night my son and I went to a Twins game at the Metrodome. The line goes right past the dome, and I snapped a few shots of the cars going by on the way in.





After the game (which is was one of the worst I've seen in the last 17 years) we came out and took some more pictures. There were some workers video taping operations at one end of the platform, as a bunch of trains came through, and we stopped to talk for a few minutes. This is actually going to be a cute little railroad.

As we watched and talked I noticed a sign that said "Begin ABS". It took me a minute to figure out what it meant, but then it hit me. That was the point on the railroad where street running stopped and normal ROW operations began. The Metrodome is on the edge of Downtown, south of that point the line only crosses at protected grade crossings, making ABS possible. The Downtown segment of the line runs right down the middle of the street, and has to obey traffic signals at all of the cross streets.

The guy I was talking to and I agreed that this was probably not the best way to have designed the Downtown portion of the line, but that was what they had the money to do, so that's what they did. That was part of the reason for the video taping, to study how pedestrians and cars interacted with the new LRV under normal game day conditions. I suspect they will study the tapes for safety related issues, and use them to educate the drivers and the public.

Here's the link to the official website.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/lrt/

I forget exactly which day in June of 1954 the rails in the streets of the Twin Cities fell silent. I wasn't even alive back then, but I'll bet it was a sad day indeed. I've heard that the demise of the streetcar line was a huge scandal back then, and a few people went to jail when it was all over.[}:)][B)]