GAS PROTEST

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

Tomtrain- yes saving gas by turning the engine off should help a bit. Rule of thumb I heard was that if you are stopped for more than 30 secs there could be a saving. The problem is that you dont wanna hold up traffic because you forgot to turn the engine back on hehehehe. Coasting by turning the engine off works the same way especialy on longer not too steep downhill slopes. Does NOT work if you got power steering or if if your ignition locks so you cant start until you stop.
But even if you do hold traffic up doing this, just do it in "protest" of high gas prices. I do the turn off the ignition thing at lites just so I dont choke on my own fumes hehehehe....
but my buddy does it because he realy is so broke he has to save every penny.

I also heard from my broke buddy that if you got electronic fuel injuction you can turn off the engine while moving in gear and it acts like an engine brake, even with automatic trans but NEVER with carburated engines !

Not a good idea to switch-off, what with power steering and power brakes- let alone column lock! Especially on a down-grade!!!
440cuin- when i put a ford in my pipe and smoked it, I didn't inhale! But seriously- I smoked a 'Stang (v-8) @ a stop-light in an 04 prius (and HE egged it on!) I'm not sure which is funnier- a hybrid smokin' a v-8 or the look on the guys face in my rear-view!
Don't even get me started on the Supra!!!- Ok back to trains!

[Modelcar]

....It is discusting...Our last big jump here a week or so ago was 25 cents overnight...!!!

[UPTRAIN]

I spoke too damn soon!!! Last night gas jumped from $1.89 9/10 all the way to $1.94 9/10...A WHOLE NICKLE OVER NIGHT!!! This really sucks, I may have to stay closer to home this summer.

[DSchmitt]

I doubt that the cycle of any traffic signals is long enough to make turning off the engine worth while. I do turn off my engine when stopped at a moveable bridge which may take ten minutes or more.

From the California Vehicle Code

"21710. The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on down grade
upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in
neutral."

Turning off the engine while moving is dangerous. Power stearing and brakes don't work and on virtually all modern cars the steering wheel locks.

[Modelcar]

....Coasting down hill any distance with the engine shut down and the vehicle having an automatic transmission could cause transmission damage. In years past they had a rear oil pump to help with all the requirements of the transmission including oil pressure for lubrication...but not now for years. So now the transmission gets no pressure lubrication coasting with the engine shut down. Same applies when towing similar vehicle any disance...Remove the drive shaft...At least disconnect from differential. All above applies to rear wheel drive vehicles.

[TH&B]

Tomtrain- yes saving gas by turning the engine off should help a bit. Rule of thumb I heard was that if you are stopped for more than 30 secs there could be a saving. The problem is that you dont wanna hold up traffic because you forgot to turn the engine back on hehehehe. Coasting by turning the engine off works the same way especialy on longer not too steep downhill slopes. Does NOT work if you got power steering or if if your ignition locks so you cant start until you stop.
But even if you do hold traffic up doing this, just do it in "protest" of high gas prices. I do the turn off the ignition thing at lites just so I dont choke on my own fumes hehehehe....
but my buddy does it because he realy is so broke he has to save every penny.

I also heard from my broke buddy that if you got electronic fuel injuction you can turn off the engine while moving in gear and it acts like an engine brake, even with automatic trans but NEVER with carburated engines !

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

we have one advantage, that europe is very cramped, so we do not have to drive long distances to get around

It make's it sooo much easier to invade that way too....[:)] [;)]

we noticed that, [:D] but as most of Holland is below sea level some took their finger out of the dike and flushed the spaceinvaders out (now they only come over during tourist season, and No we are not allowed to shoot them either )

[Puckdropper]

tomtrain, I'm simply wondering what putting the car in nuetral will do...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by toyomantrains

Yep- I've smoked many Fords!

I'm happy for you![:D][;)]I've smoked some GM's ....threw a rod through the oil pan of my Citation X-11, I had a Camaro, the FIRST engine went "Cam-dead"[xx(] at 65000 mi., The SECOND engine(brand new) bent 6 pushrods before 10000 mi[:(], The THIRD engine(the warranty replacement) had a rod failure at the wristpin, which broke BOTH bottom sides of the block and cut the oil pan in half.... they never did find that piston. I told GM to stick thier engines someplace unpleasant, and they refunded my money. At least they got that right. My wife's Dodge Caravan is on engine #3 in 165000 mi(engine #3 has a noisy connecting rod bearing after 14000 mi. I'm glad that engine still has two years left on it's 3yr unlimited mile warranty[:D]!!)Now I drive Fords, and I don't have that problem anymore. My 3 Mustangs all have OVER 125000 miles on them, and they ALL have thier original engines, which run(and sound) as good now, as the day they were built! ,So say what you will about them.[:)]

[Modelcar]

...Sorry for the double post above...The system was "fighting me" when I posted.

[Modelcar]

....This is what it did here for us....from 1. 89 to 2.14....Big oil needs to insure they get :"their" fair share for the upcoming holiday.

[UPTRAIN]

I haven't bought gas in a week...it's leveled off here at $1.89 9/10. It was supposed to hit 2 bucks here this weekend but has a little ways to go...unless it jumps 11 cents tonight!!!

[Modelcar]

...I have hardly ever thought of Consumer Reports when I care to hunt down some vehicle info. I can do that for myself...been around this stuff all my life...in work and in a family business and as a very interested car guy.
And I don't need to have a large "road hog gas guzzler" to get down the road as fast as I care to go....As I mentioned before, can cruise at almost any reasonable speed and even above that if I would choose but most of the time do not....with my vehicle and still get decent milage.
And yes I'm fully aware of the autobahn system in Germany and how many drivers drive over them...

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

we have one advantage, that europe is very cramped, so we do not have to drive long distances to get around

It make's it sooo much easier to invade that way too....[:)] [;)]

[Modelcar]

...I have hardly ever thought of Consumer Reports when I care to hunt down some vehicle info. I can do that for myself...been around this stuff all my life...in work and in a family business and as a very interested car guy.
And I don't need to have a large "road hog gas guzzler" to get down the road as fast as I care to go....As I mentioned before, can cruise at almost any reasonable speed and even above that if I would choose but most of the time do not....with my vehicle and still get decent milage.
And yes I'm fully aware of the autobahn system in Germany and how many drivers drive over them...

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark
I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THEIR V-8 GAS MILEAGE? Obvioulsy, Consumer Reports don't....

I don't trust Consumer Reports. The have an agenda.

As an example: For years they rated Chrysler minivans best vehicle in their class and GMC Sarfari worst.

At the same time the Chryslers had more recalls in 1 year than my GM did in 5.

Actually comparing the Sarfari/Astro to the Chryslers is not fair. The Sarfari/Astro is a truck that can do an excellent job carrying cargo, a good job carrying mixed cargo and passengers or a good job carrying passengers. The Chrysler minivans: excellent passenger haulers, fair to poor with cargo.

I did look at the Chrysler minivans. They were not capable of doing what I needed.

Its the same with all SUV's, vans, minivans, big cars, little cars, sports cars, trucks, etc. While there is a lot of overlap in what they can do, they are designed to have different capabilities. Its up to the owner, not some bureaucrat or "do gooder" busy body" to determine what an individual or family need in a vehicle.

I don't trust the EPA gas mileage figures either. In the early days they, I know, the often reported different results for clone vehicles (vehicles whose only difference was the brand name and trim) I have been driving since before the started putting estimated gas mileage on cars. In actual experience (admittedly its hard to tell) the EPA figures seem to be high more often than not, but on several vehicles the appeared to be way too low.

I haven't read a Consumer Reports in the last few years so don't know how they are doing now. When I subscriped, many years ago, I percieved a strong anti "fun" car bias while a few years latter a couple of their reviewers seemed to think "fun" is ok in a car.

[TH&B]

Car culture is so different in Europe. In Germany people drive 220km/h+++ in their Mercedes, Audies and BMWs, wich there are alot of and it is legal on their autobahns. And they do it all day long [traffic permitting] and they cover 500 miles in less than 4 hours door to door by car. People from Denmark [just north of Germany] just flog through Germany to get to Switzerland !!
At those great speeds they are not getting a good mpg, and at those gas prices !!
So in the US those that can afford it choose big bulky roadhog gas guzzelers and in Europe those that afford it choose very hi-speed luxury sedans.

6 of these or half a dozen of the other ... either way, get out of the way!

[Modelcar]

...I doubt the European car of equal value and size and engine is much different in fuel economy than my Japanese built 4-door very comfortable entry class luxury sedan....and you are correct, we have more distances to travel in this vast country we life in. I will head out this week for 400 miles to my destination and do it in about 6 hrs....at a reasonable travel speed and really not thinking much about it. By the way, not needing to stop for fuel until I get to where I'm going. But I still don't like the price they are slapping to us for reasons I don't completely understand except for some concern in the system enhancing their profits over what they were making last travel season.
Best wishes to you folks in the Netherlands. That must be a fascinating land. [8D]

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

hey guys, ever wondered why european cars are so fuel efficient?
after some calculation I found out that we europeans pay about $5,= a gallon for our petrol,
we have one advantage, that europe is very cramped, so we do not have to drive long distances to get around

Most of the difference in price is taxes.

Governments (including State, Local & Federal in the US) often make more from products than the businesses that produce, distribute and sell them.

[lupo]

hey guys, ever wondered why european cars are so fuel efficient?
after some calculation I found out that we europeans pay about $5,= a gallon for our petrol,
we have one advantage, that europe is very cramped, so we do not have to drive long distances to get around

[Modelcar]

....My personal choice for an engine in today's world is a V-6.....Especially a 60 degree V-6 of roughly 3.0 liter in size and one can expect very decent preformance from it....and in my opinion, very decent fuel mileage....In driving in mountain terrian, it gives a bit more performance than basic standard engines of smaller size with very little negative trade offs....

[Anonymous]

I was hoping someone would have noticed that the SUVs get on average far less gas mileage than a Crown Victoria.... An SUV is a stupid unnecessary vehicle......

As for the ability to drive at the top speed limits, a four banger is enough.... As far as the ability to accelerate to get on the freeway, a four banger is enough.... I have been driving four bangers since 1982, and have yet not been able to pass a slow driver on any two lane highway..... Honda and Toyota can sell you an Accord or a Camry with a four banger..... Ford and Chevrolet can sell you an Taurus and a Malibu with a four banger..... There is no need for a larger car....... Buy a station wagon or a Mini van if you need more room and seats, but buy them with a four banger.....

Therefore, I find it hard to believe the auto industry needs to build anything with anything larger than a four banger..... And to think half the cars, suvs, and trucks sold in America last year had V-8 engines..... what a waste of fuel...... gas hogs all.....

[Modelcar]

....Both are good reasons....Of course the 2nd one just trying to make things a little better.

[TH&B]

It is true that modern cars are better in fuel in each catagory (wich does represent someone collectively is trying). But then you must also add up that there are more cars on the road today plus people seem to average more miles anualy. I used to walk to the train station in the morning on my way to work, it was important to walk on the sidewalk UPWIND from the traffic because the fumes where nosiating... and the traffic was inching along with realy modern cars INCLUDING many imports mostly of very late model.
So why is this exhaust tough to walk in? Maby because most of these cars where started less then 5 to 10 mins ago producing way more emisions then factory specs. This happens all over populated America every potentialy beautifull morning.

Dont need no science to prove its unhealthy, just walk amongst it and find out.

So I walked to the train every day, and then on the weekend I would fire up the old 440 and go for a pleasure drive and puke out all the equivilant of imisions as everyone else does all week in one drive. I took the train because I like trains , not to save the world ;-)

[Modelcar]

....What's so bad of a large Crown Vic V-8 getting 25 mpg out on the highway...That's just about twice the mileage it attained in the early 70's.....
I believe if you check the figures on a Corvette [V-8], it may attain better than 25 on the open highway driving cycle...Years ago....with a '57 Corvette my wife and I put over 3000 miles on a vaction run and it averaged 18.3.....and that was mostly over the open road and now look at the improvement over that the present Corvette can attain....so, our manufactures have made pretty good improvements for fuel economy but I will say not before they were prodded to do so...Of course we have the Hybrid's coming on stream now that will allow many on the open road to use much less gas. [8D]

[Anonymous]

Comparing old 4 bangers with newer V-8s isn't really proper.....when you should be comparing today's 4 bangers with todays V-8s.... The information complied below is from this year's Consumer Reports Annual Automobile Magazine using EPA numbers.

For example, I do not know of any V-8 that gets 40 mph highway as the Toyota Corolla, or 38 mph as the Honda Civic (non hybrid).... the two best selling 4 banger compacts in the automobile industry.....even the Ford Focus, Dodge Neon, and Chevrolet Cavalier get at least 33 mph highway....

While the best mileage V-8s can get 25 mph highway, they do not get nearly as much gas mileage in the city as the V-6s and 4 bangers..... For example:

Honda V-6 Accord 21/30
Honda V-6 Pilot SUV 14/22
Honda 4 Civic 32/38

Toyota V-8 Land Cruiser SUV 13/16
Toyota V-6 Highlander SUV 18/24
Toyota V-6 Camry 20/28
Toyota 4 Corolla 29/40
Toyota 4 Echo 34/41

Chevrolet V-8 Suburban SUV 13/17
Chevrolet V-8 Tahoe SUV 14/17
Chevrolet V-6 Trailblazer SUV 15/21
Chevrolet V-6 Impala 19/29
Chevrolet 4 Cavalier 25/33

Ford V-8 Expedition SUV 13/17
Ford V-6 Explorer SUV 15/20
Ford V-8 Crown Victoria 17/25
Ford V-6 Taurus 20/27
Ford 4 Focus 26/32

Chrysler V-8 Pacifica SUV 17/22
Dodge Ram 1500 V-8 Pickup 13/17
Dodge V-6 Intrepid 19/27
Dodge 4 Neon 25/33

The best mileage a V-8 can get on the highway listed from Consumer Reports is 25 mph.... The best a V-6 can get on the highway is 30 mph. A four banger gets as mucy in city mileage as a V-8 does highway....

And the Europeans are getting 45 mph highway with a Golf 4 banger diesel, and 60 mph with a Lupo 3 banger diesel...... I find it hard to believe Americans are proud of getting 25 mph with a Crown Vic on the highway.....

I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THEIR V-8 GAS MILEAGE? Obvioulsy, Consumer Reports don't....

[Modelcar]

....And that has nothing to do with 25 cents boost overnight....! It is simply greed to get more from the citizens knowing they have a capative audience and they will want to travel over the holiday and be more active with their autos. Crude oil prices can change by OPEC action and within an hour the price can change at the pump and it's obvious none of the high cost stock has had a chance to move anywere yet...It's plain and simple they have a monopoly and we're the victims.

[rf16a]

I bought gas on the 19th. High prices are not the fault of the kid making minimum wage pumping the gas or the station owner trying to make a living or even the oil companies.
The environmentalist extremists and their leftist politician allies in this country have made it a mortal sin to search for and drill for more of our own oil and for an oil company to build a new refinery.

[Modelcar]

....Nasty.