Paul_D_North_Jr The view of the viaduct from in front of the diner Trains, May 1972 page 20 coach travel on the Erie ( ERIE, "HILTON, GEORGE W.", REMINISCENCE, TRAVEL, TRN )
The view of the viaduct from in front of the diner Trains, May 1972 page 20 coach travel on the Erie ( ERIE, "HILTON, GEORGE W.", REMINISCENCE, TRAVEL, TRN )
We have on our kitchen wall a nice photograph of the engine of a train we rode in May of 1972. It shows Southern's 722 leading the 4501 across the Central of Georgia's trestle at Leeds, Alabama. We had our excursion trip (ate our cake) and have a picture of the engine outbound (and still have our cake), too.
Johnny
, Johnny. But he preferred to travel in the coach -
- Paul.
wanswheel Timken ads http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/show-picture?id=1084912249&size=FULL http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/show-picture?id=1187657011&size=FULL http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/show-picture?id=1190739555&size=FULL
Timken ads
http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/show-picture?id=1084912249&size=FULL
http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/show-picture?id=1187657011&size=FULL
http://graphic-design.tjs-labs.com/show-picture?id=1190739555&size=FULL
There was at least one Timken (I spelled it right this time!) ad, in Trains that had a "professor" demonstrating how the tapered Timken rollers could not slide laterally and pump the lubricant out of the bearing the way the cylindrical bearings of the competition could.
Paul, I think George Hilton loved that picture of the Erie Limited, also.
Mike/ wanswheel -
I believe henry6 will be very interested in that middle one. Thanks for sharing.
- PDN.
bubbajustin Hi everyone. Thank you for explainig to me how this works. So it's basically like holding a cutting torch to the bering if not kept properly lubracated. I see now! Thanks all!
Thank you for explainig to me how this works. So it's basically like holding a cutting torch to the bering if not kept properly lubracated. I see now! Thanks all!
Justin -
At the risk of being ruled 'politically incorrect' here - do you know what an 'Indian Burn' is [Q]
If not - or if the name has since been changed, or in case it's known by other names elsewhere - it's when someone grabs your forearm with both of their hands wrapped around it, squeezes tight, and then rubs your skin back and forth by turning each of their hands in opposite directions at the same time about 1/4 turn. That generates a lot of friction / heat/ discomfort - hence the name.
THAT'S what the failure mechanism of a bearing failure is more like, rather than a cutting torch - even the resulting broken axle will be less melted than if it had been done with a cutting torch. Just imagine an Indian Burn going on for a really long time. But I didn't think of that until I saw your post and thought 'Boy Scouts', and then some of my own experiences there. I'll challenge anyone here to come up with a better analogy for what a bearing failure is, than the old 'Indian Burn'.
bubbajustin BTW, I have this brass thing that looks like a cog/gear. Grandpa says it's from the bering of an old railcar. Any other ideas?
I have this brass thing that looks like a cog/gear. Grandpa says it's from the bering of an old railcar. Any other ideas?
Doubtful, since those parts usually did not have gear teeth on them. How about providing a better description - such as size/ diameter, thickness, number and size of teeth and shape, how much of a circle segment it includes, any markings, variations in cross-section shape, holes to mount it with, any keyways to lock it to an axle or shaft, etc.
- Paul North.
Hi everyone.
BTW,
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
tree68 Johnny - I did a Google image search for "roller bearing" and got dozens of pictures of both ball and tapered roller bearings.
Johnny - I did a Google image search for "roller bearing" and got dozens of pictures of both ball and tapered roller bearings.
I could remember the name "Timkin," but not "SKF;" these were the main advertisers that I remember from the fifties.
tree68 Johnny - I did a Google image search for "roller bearing" and got dozens of pictures of both ball and tapered roller bearings. When I added "railroad" to the search, I got more pictures of models than anything else, but this page, with the expandable images at the top, had the best drawing of a railroad roller bearing, in cross section.
When I added "railroad" to the search, I got more pictures of models than anything else, but this page, with the expandable images at the top, had the best drawing of a railroad roller bearing, in cross section.
That's a pretty straight forward diagram. The "cone" is the inner race. The "cup" is the outer race.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Although locomotive axles do occasionally fracture, the majority of locomotive axle failures are due to "burn in two" at the traction motor support bearings. Although most locomotives built since 1995 employ roller type support bearings, the majority of locomotives still employ a plain or "sleve" type bearing that requires regular "topping off" of the bearing lubricating oil. Traction motor support bearing lube is a regular part of locomotive servicing performed on service pits while the locomotive is being fueled and engine checks are made. If the support bearing oil is allowed to get too low the bearing will not receive sufficient lubrication and will overheat. If overheating is discovered before a total failure of the bearing the traction motor can be removed and the wheel set and bearings can be replaced. If the overheating is not discovered the bearing can get so hot that the axle will burn through in the support bearing area resulting in the wheels dropping inside of the rails. Lubricating the support bearings and at the same time inspecting and lubing the traction motor gear box is the lowest job on the service pit but the most important in terms of what can result from not performing the work dilligently. The lube work (called cellar-packing on most railroads) is particularly unpleasent to perform in cold, rainy, or snowy weather and at night.
Traction motor support bearing failure sometimes will occur shortly after an new traction motor is applied to a locomotive. When the motor/wheel combination is built, the support bearings are oiled just enough to permit run-in of the combination but the bearing oil reservoirs are not completely filled until the motor is in the truck, where filling the reservoir is the last step of a traction motor application work order. If the lube is not done, the traction motor can run for several hundred miles until the axle finally burns through. In my experience at Union Pacific, a support bearing failure that occurs just west of Clinton IA or just east of Green River WY could be traced back to a traction motor change at North Platte a couple of days earlier.
When lubrication is maintained, the plain type traction motor support bearings are very reliable, I have witnessed as much as 750,000 miles with axles and bearings still in excellent condition. Neither the axle nor the babitt bearing that surrounds the axle will show signs of wear as long as there is a sufficient film of oil between them. The oil film depends on the finish surface of the support journal areas on the axle. Smoother is not better, the support bearing journal areas must be finished to an exacting specification that gives the surface the ability to hold an oil film when the locomotive is stopped or moving slow. I have experienced support bearing failures that traced back to the shop that prepared axles with support bearing journals that were too smooth, the finished axles were a mirror-finish, a correctly finished axle will appear dull grey in the support journal area.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Don, do you know where someone could find a picture of a roller bearing that shows the details of the construction? I looked "roller bearing" up in the encyclopedia on my computer, and there was a description, but no illustration. I remember that, back in the fifties, the various roller bearing manufacturers were showing the superiority of their products and they included pictures of the bearing assemblies in their advertisements. Such a picture could help show what problems can arise from adverse conditions. Today, it seems to be taken for granted that everyone who needs to know does know the construction of roller bearings.
bubbajustin How does a modern bering failure happen? How can you identafy one(A bering failure)? And how could this attribute to a locomotive/car de-railing?
How does a modern bering failure happen? How can you identafy one(A bering failure)? And how could this attribute to a locomotive/car de-railing?
A roller bearing has moving parts - rollers and races - that are in contact with each other and under load. As long as there are no defects in the parts or the parts are not overloaded (from the car being overweight or from impacts from flat/out of round wheels), and the bearing has good lubrication,everything is fine. But repetitive, localized overloading will cause the steel in the bearing to fatigue and crack or spall (flake). That starts a death spiral for the bearing. The defect causes more localized fatigue which makes the defect bigger. The impact of the parts passing the defect exceeds the lubrication's film thickness causing friction and heat. Soon, the heat causes the lubrication to totally break down, the bearing temperature soars, the axle gets soft from the heat and the friction in bearing is great and the axle breaks from the combined vertical and twisting forces. The truck side frame is no longer supported by the wheel, so it drops down on the ties and ballast and a full fledged derailment is soon to follow.
You can find a bearing that's going bad by measuring how hot it is. This is how a HBD works. There is also some work being done listening to bearings. The frequency with which a roller or race defect hits with each rotation of the bearing is dependent on the dimensions of the parts, so you can listen (using microphones and signal processing equipemnt) to the bearings as they pass by. If they are making too much noise in their race-pass or roller-pass frequency range, they there might be trouble starting to brew.
"What can go wrong, will."
First off, I would like to say that I'm familiar with the friction berings, and how thay were the cause of most hotboxes, if not kept filled with oil.
When you say axel faliure, do you mean the whole axel just snapped in two pices? I can see how these broken pices would get underneath other alxels either on the loco. or on a car and de-rail it.
Thanks for explaining!
Justin
A couple of thoughts.
A roller bearging can go from "OK" at a HBD to burnt off in a matter of a few miles. Detectors are often placed 10-20 miles apart, to they will not catch everything, just most things.
Locomotive axles have a second set of bearings - the ones that hold the traction motor. These are inboard from the wheels and not measured by any detection system. Up until a decade or so ago, they were "friction" bearings that required periodic filling with oil. Most newer locomotives have more reliable roller bearings, now. These suspension bearings are generally very reliable - the roller bearing version even more so. But, the are known to occasionally cause axle failures. Most times, the crew will notice them when they start smoking.
The industry is always looking to improve bearing failure detection. False positives are costly and missed positives even more so! The latest idea is to look at each car from detector to detector to see if there a trend. It involves keeping the data in a database fed from each detector instead of having each detector stand alone. UP is the leader of this technology.
There is nothing made by man that is fail proof. Every thing can break.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It could have been a hidden crack inside the axle. Remember that the only time a Axle is pulled is to change a Traction Motor, the Wheels or the Trucks. Bearings would be changed when the wheels are replaced. I have seen hardened steel Crankshafts snap going down the road without warning before. SO trust me a hidden flaw in an axle could lead to a broken one. I know here in Streator a couple years ago we had a broken Axle on a railcar shut the transcon down for a few days. It can and does happen heck rails break all the time. Metal can only take so many hits and vibrations before it breaks in half.
I saw the same story and my question is, was this actually a physically broken axle, or was it what to me seems more likely, some type of bearing failure at the axle end misinterpreted by the media as a broken axle. Inquiring minds would like to know.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
On June 5th, there was an accident on CP line at Oshawa, Ontario. A 90 car train derailed spewing cars in neighbours back yards. Results from the investigation (presumably ongoing) showed problem was a broken axle on one of the locomotives. This is the first time that I recall such an incident as a broken loco axle, especially with all the fault detectors along the line. When was this locomotive last maintained ? Can anyone else recall the reason for such an accident ?
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