Milwaukee Road Successor

[Supermicha]

I got SPV´s Mountain plains map today.

When i have a lot of money and time in a few years, would it be possible to walk on the old Milwaukee route between Avery and Harlowton?

I think this would be a nice experience for me...

[Supermicha]

Mark, thanks for your reply.

Now all sounds more understandable for me. And on a Montana Rail Link Map i found that you are right, there are a few miles left at Butte.

All in all i´m sad to hear that most of this nice railroad is gone. I would like to ride this route behind a little Joe, maybe in my next life...[;)]

[Anonymous]

Michael: The Milwaukee Road is completely abandoned from the BNSF connection just east of Terry, past the start of electrification at Harlowton, past the end of electrification at Avery, to the St. Maries River Railroad at St. Maries -- there might be a bit of track in Butte, but it wouldn't be consequential. In other words, the track beneath the entire Rocky Mountain Electrification is gone.

I'm not aware of any internet map that's thorough. The best maps on the market for showing abandoned and active railroad routes are the Steam Powered Video atlases. I use my set every day. You'd want the "Mountain Plains" volume to show the Milwaukee Road in Montana.

[Supermicha]

Excuse my question, but i didn´t understand one thing:

Someboday said, the ex MILW tracks in Washington are mostly removed. ok, thats clear.

But what is with the other ex electric part, mostly in Montana i think? Is it in use, by BNSF or CN. I have seen a nice image of Avery, where the wire of the eastern electric part begins, are there some trains today?

Is there a map in the intenet where i can see yesterdays and todays railway routes in this area?

Thanks

[Modelcar]

...That's interesting. Have never heard anything about the pilot bore at that tunnel before. I knew about the doors, etc...on the main bore. I imagine getting the water out of a bore that length is a critical importance. Have always had an interest in R R tunnels, such as length, when they were constructed, etc...If your interested you might try to pull it up on www.terraserver.com and look at it from the satellite photos. Check where it enters the mountain both ends, etc. Views used to be free and not sure how it is now. Item: First experience going through a tunnel of any size was when Pennsylvania Turnpike first opened. Laurel Hill...about a mile in length.

[rrock]

Modelcar: The Cascade Tunnel has a small pilot bore driven along side it. If I remember correctly, tall enough to walk through, about eight feet wide. There are cross passageways to main tunnel according to historical info. Pilot bore may have been used to remove construction debris. Currently a MAJOR stream flows out of it- pilot tunnel is used as primary water drain for main bore. Sorry, I'm not good at estimating GPM or cubic whatevers one measures water in, so I can't give you a better idea. There are two small streams on each side of road bed in tunnel proper.

At one time pilot tunnel had narrow gage rails, probably for hand pushed carts.

[Modelcar]

....That's fascinating info....bet the 2.3 miles of walking in the dark seems to be quite a way to get through it....I am aware of Cascade being so long but never realized it would be bored tangent that distance. Guess I wonder about the water drainage but if one end is higher as you say, that accomplishes that task. 7.8 miles would be quite a haul through a mountain bore...And now days, that is short compared to some in Asia and of course the Chunnel and that one under construction in Switzerland. I have been in a very short one in Pennsylvania on the S & C of ex. B&O and it was constructed on a curve and lined with brick..! But it was very short and I just ventured in one end a ways to take a look. [No traffic].

[rrock]

Snoqualmie tunnel is 2.3 miles long, a slight curve at the east end. You can't quite see directly through the tunnel. No "hump" in middle- tunnel is almost level, with east end very slightly higher than west, not more than a couple feet if I remember correctly.

Not too many miles to the north (as the crow flies), 7.8 mile Cascade tunnel is perfectly straight, with the east end considerably higher than the west. Built by Great Northern, the line is now one of 3 BNSF lines running east/west across the state of Washington, Stampede pass (Northern Pacific, also with tunnel) and the water level route along the Columbia river (Spokane, Portland, and Seattle) being the others. At Cascade tunnel, if the door is open at the east end, one can see a speck of light from the west end. However, if the speck of light appears to grow larger, it's a headlamp...headed your way!

[Modelcar]

rrock....How long is the Snoqualmie tunnel....and can you see thorugh it from end to end or perhaps it may have a higher elevation in the center....

[Anonymous]

Heck, I only know anything about Twin Cities to Terry because I drove out there last year! I had no idea what it looked like; it's one of the most obscure main lines in North America. Hardly anyone has been out there and photographed it since 1980, and all I had to go by is the employee timetables and the SPV atlases. I've seen very little reporting on it.

Unfortunately the weather was awful; so I have not a single worthwhile photo to show for the effort. The trains are so sparse you can't exactly sit and wait for one, either.

[Anonymous]

Mark-

I'll certainly bow to your superior knowledge of that area, my info came mostly from The Historical Guide to North American Railroads by George Drury (Kalmbach 1991).

LC

[Anonymous]

Technically, the Pacific Extension begins at Mobridge, South Dakota, if memory recalls. Agriculture pretty much ends there and the railroad enters the Badlands, though in reality farming becomes increasingly thin west of Aberdeen, and by the time you reach Mobridge, it's rangeland and a little bit of hay in the bottomlands.

The Milwaukee Road main line west of Ortonville is in service as far west as a connection with BNSF just east of Terry, Montana. BNSF owns it from Appleton west; Twin Cities & Western operates it (more or less) east of Appleton. When I saw it a year ago, it appeared to be used only for car storage east of Granite Falls.

Traffic on the BNSF portion is a unit coal train that comes out of the northern Powder River Basin and runs to Big Stone (Milbank), I think not better than once every five days, and grain on demand. That's it. Maybe two trains a day each way. West of Terry, you have to go all the way to St. Maries, Idaho, to find another significant chunk, which is operated by St. Maries River Railroad. Washington Central has another piece in the vicinity of Warden, and that's it.

[Anonymous]

The Lines West were abandoned in 1977 if memory serves as part of a reorganization. This included everything west of Ortonville, MN far from the Rockies...

LC

[Supermicha]

o.k., interesting to hear that. The pacific extension is or was the western part of the MILW near Seattle, right? What about the eastern part in the rockys?

[rrock]

In Washington state, most of the Milwaukee is abandoned and removed. A few (non-electric) branch lines are in use by short lines.

Major portions of the line over Snoqualmie pass (east of Seattle) are a public trail. Much of the road bed has been gravelled and is easily traversed by foot or bicycle. The tunnel at Snoqualmie summit is open during the summer. The doors used to close the tunnel during the winter are the same ones in use when the line was abandoned, I think. (Doors were closed unless a train was passing in winter to prevent ice build-up in tunnel. There were even electric heaters at the east portal!) Unfortunately, one of the high trestles west of the summit collapsed some years ago- a footing to one of the piers washed out in heavy rain, and the trail is interrupted as far as easy, level travel.

Due to pressure differential on the east/west sides of the Cascades, there is a constant breeze through the tunnel. Temperature is very cool. It's fun during 90 degree summer days to watch folks in shorts and tank tops turn into icicles going through the tunnel. I get strange looks when, on a 90 degree day, I pull on a sweatshirt or two and overalls before entering the tunnel. But at least I don't freeze my naughty bits.

If you have the opportunity to hike through the Snoqualmie tunnel, take a good flashlight or lantern along- there is no permanent lighting inside any longer. One can still see remains of signal wiring and catenary attachment points.

[CShaveRR]

I think the western electrified portion (or parts of it, anyway) is a bike trail. The MILW was probably the most spectacular of the northern transcontinental routes, and the trail (photos I've seen...I only wish I could acyually ride it) certainly verifies that.

[AltonFan]

AFAIK, except for a few stubs here and there that connect to other railroads, almost all of the Milwaukee Pacific Extension was abandoned.

[Supermicha]

I have a question. The Milwaukee road had 2 electric routes, one between seattle and othello, the other between horlowtown and avery. I know, electric service ended in the seventys, my question is, are both routes in service today and which company operates these routes today?

thanks