A search at the right under "Search Community" will net you a ton of threads covering the topic.
Here is a recent example.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/134435/1508751.aspx#1508751
-Crandell
There's a fine line between the two.
One widely accepted definition of "foamer" is one who 'foams at the mouth' when he sees a train. In general, I think that most will agree that a foamer is a railfan who has gone "over the top." The problem usually comes with defining where that point is.
I suppose one comparison would be between the guy who reads the box scores every day and goes to the games, and the guy whose car sports team license plates, has team seat covers, named his kid after his favorite player (although more than a few pets are named with railroad themes), and joins his buddies at the game to paint their bodies so to spell out the team name.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Call me a railfan, call me a foamer...I don't really care, just as long as you DON"T call me late for dinner!
If you're a railfan, railfans are railfans. If you're a working railroader, railfans are foamers.
There's some evidence the term began with railroaders to describe crazy railfans pacing their trains or standing in the rain to take a picture or log the engine in their trainspotting book.
From an old post:
Railfan...An otherwise normal person that enjoys the pursuit of railroad related activities. That could be one or more of many sub interests including but not limited to observing, photographing, reasearching, studying, discussing, modeling or just plain following the railroads of both past,present or future. These people are hard to spot in other circles as they are functional in normal society. Foamer...One that apparently looses all mental control when one or more of the following occur: 1) they are in the presence of a: A) a train B) railroad tracks (and in some places railroad property(s)) C) a piece of railroad memorabilia or D) a conversation or any other communication related to the subject of railroading. They are easy to detect as most of them are social disaster areas anyway. Railroader (non railfan)...One that couldn't care less what the rest of us falling into the other categories think(s) about them or there company. They are the ones that are there to do a job, earn a liveing and make it home safely every day till retirement. Railroader (closet railfan)...One that typically enjoys there job whether they admit it or not. They are most likely to be industry insider participants of railroad related forums. they are fairly easy members to spot as they typically use aliases (to protect the innocent of course) but are otherwise forthright with there experiences and opinions,reguardless of what the foamers think. Railroader (and railfan)..one that enjoys there profession and is willing to share there experiences and/or wisdom with the rest of the railfan community. They are easy to spot due to there honesty, integrity and passion for railroading and railroad related subjects while feeling no need to hide there identity. ******************************************************************************************** Notes: (some less common catagories) Closet railfan-For all intents and purposes should be considered railfans that don't advertise. They are the hardest to spot but can be identified by the quick snap of the neck upon hearing any railroad related noise to see whats up. Railroader / Foamer, there also exists such an animal as railroader (foamer). They don't usually last very long, though, because the other three railroader categories look upon them as being more than a little strange, even if they share the same sympathies at times. You can tell these guys some tall tales that they will later repeat as gospel. Trolls-(all of the above)...Trolls are generally misfits of society looking to disrupt normal society in any way they can (for whatever reason) and there presence in the forum is a side effect of society more then a railfan category and will furthermore be ignored, ********************************************************************************************** relationships: railfan-Foamer....The railfan will tolerate the foamer either out of pity or compassion for the mentally challenged that enjoy the same hobby, even when it may damage there reputation....the foamer will generally cling on to the railfan because they are not just willing to talk to them but are also socially acceptable members of society. railfan-railroader(non railfan)...The railfan typically feels self conscious when a railroader gives that look that says "get a life"...The railroader usually gives the railfan that "Get a life look" that comes so naturally to them. Railfan-railroader(closet railfan)...railfans typically cater to the closet railroader's ego when they feel they will not have there cover blown and therefore are paid back in special favors in many varying ways in which railfans tend to exploit but not abuse...Closet railfan railroaders are a goldmine for the railfan because when they know they can get away with it they will show off for the railfan in a multitude of ways that are always beneficial and thoroughly appreciated by most all railfans. This is typically a most beneficial relationship as long as the railfan does not take the closet foamer down front street. Railfan-railfan/railroader...This tends to be the best kind of relationship as each party tends to have a level head and doesn't get to inflated about who or what they are and for the most part are intelegent, wise and compassionate members of society. Foamer-non railfan railroader...The worst possible match. The Foamer is typically a "social disaster area" an is likely to represent a hazard to the railroader in a multitude of ways in which the non railfan railroader will be most intolerant of... the non railfan railroader will look at the foamer like they are the most socially unacceptable life form on the face of the planet, and not know whether to be irritated by them or take pitty on them. bottom line: bad blood. Foamer-closet railfan railroader...Although not the worst mix it does have perils all its own. the foamer will tend to taunt the closet railroader to give them access or special favors... Meanwhile the closet railroader will constantly worry about the foamer taking them down front street and risking them loosing there job. A very unbalanced relationship. Foamer-railroader railfan...the foamer typically worships the ground the railroader walks on. The railroader typically spends his time wondering why those losers worship the ground they walk on.The relationships in this category could potentially fill books and is way beyond the scope of this piece.
A railroad fan is someone who likes to learn about railroading, but is not ostentatious about it and could really give a da(r)n less about whether people inside or outside the industry thought it was weird that he or she likes to learn about railroading.
Conversely, a foamer is someone who likes to tell other people how much they know about trains more than they like to learn about them and has an unusual preoccupation with the fact that otherwise normal people inside or outside the industry who have hobbies ranging from baseball to basket weaving to dog breeding to pornography might think it is weird that she or he likes trains.
Gabe
Perhaps I like to think of rail interests as just a priority hobby....And I've had that hobby for 70 plus years. I don't go nuts about doing it or abusing someone to listen all about it, I simply have that interest.
Those interests are the mechanical....engineering {civil}, aspect of the physical plant....and of course the railroad equipment both modern and that in the past.
I don't consider that any more unusual than someone with priority interest in football....baseball and all the fine points of each, etc.....
As for a name to what it really is: For me it's simply a priority interest.
Quentin
zardoz gabe .....therwise normal people inside or outside the industry who have hobbies ranging from baseball to basket weaving to dog breeding to pornography might think it is weird that she or he likes trains. Gabe I never considered pornography as a hobby......it might make my next visit to the hobby shop more interesting. "Hey! Did ya see the nice couplers on that one?" "Yeah! But how about the caboose!!!?" "There's a main line I wouldn't mind exploring". "I wonder if there is a video to go with it?" "I need a new lay out". "But honey, I'm merely looking for a good photo oportunity". She laughed as she said, "You said you were 'O' gauge; it looks to me like you're closer to 'N' gauge". But I think I'll skip the weathering kit.
gabe .....therwise normal people inside or outside the industry who have hobbies ranging from baseball to basket weaving to dog breeding to pornography might think it is weird that she or he likes trains. Gabe
.....therwise normal people inside or outside the industry who have hobbies ranging from baseball to basket weaving to dog breeding to pornography might think it is weird that she or he likes trains.
"Hey! Did ya see the nice couplers on that one?"
"Yeah! But how about the caboose!!!?"
"There's a main line I wouldn't mind exploring".
"I wonder if there is a video to go with it?"
"I need a new lay out".
"But honey, I'm merely looking for a good photo oportunity".
She laughed as she said, "You said you were 'O' gauge; it looks to me like you're closer to 'N' gauge".
But I think I'll skip the weathering kit.
For the record, my point regarding pornography is that, paradoxically, some rail fans would rather be caught with pornography than a copy of Trains--a near quote from Trains magazine by the way.
chad thomasCloset railfan-For all intents and purposes should be considered railfans that don't advertise. They are the hardest to spot but can be identified by the quick snap of the neck upon hearing any railroad related noise to see whats up.
And it is not just railroad related sounds, which reminds me of a funny story. About ten years ago my mother (about 70 then) and I were sitting at a picnic table outside of a fairly famous (in Canada, anyway) hamburger joint on the Trans Canada Highway through Calgary, when what we later saw was a flatdeck trailer semi drive past with a full load of new ties. Over and above the hamburger and chip smells was the smell of creosote on the wind and I noticed it first and started looking around. Then my mom noticed the smell and her head snapped up and started looking around so fast I nearly killed myself laughing. She then looked straight at me and she new exactly, in a really deep way, what she was smelling, but she couldn't figure out why. She saw the truck first, as it was coming from behind me.
She says "What kind of way to run a railroad is that, they don't even use flatcars anymore?" I have to admit I didn't know they shipped ties by truck myself, at that point in time. We have had a good laugh about that a couple of times since. Some things we just won't forget.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
I don't worry about what other people think, especially those who feel an abject need to hang silly labels on others.
My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community.
So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff -- with a dry chin.
What, no one has mentioned railroad buff? I came to describe myself as a railfan (even after I learned that this use of "fan" is derived from "fanatic"), and I was surprised to hear my college treasurer describe me as a "railroad buff." One day, I was in his office, conversing with him and the assistant treasurer, and he spoke of me in that way. I was young and ignorant, but I did not correct him (excusing him in my mind because he was not from the South, but from Iowa), just as I never corrected the college president for spelling my name "Johnnie" (he was three years younger than my mother).
When traveling by rail, I do not press myself on the railroad people, but I enjoy talking with them when the opportunity arises. I do wear a Southern 4501 tie clasp, and that has opened doors.
Johnny
Funny you mention "buff." Those who are interested in fire trucks, etc, are usually referred to as "fire buffs." I don't think I've ever heard the term "fire fan." I've heard "rail buff" and "train buff" before, though.
I think rail buff sounds a little more genteel than rail fan - perhaps connoting those who have an interest in trains, but don't necessarily seek them out.
Poppa_Zit My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community. So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff
So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
We have met the enemy and he is us!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Chad, I like your analysis of the different groups!
I would definetly classify myself as a railfan. When I'm near railroads, it's hard to act "normal" around other people, especially when I have a camera... But I would call that normal railfan behaivor, not foamer-like. But nowhere near the closet. But when there's no actual railroads around, I act like a normal person, even if there's a lot of railroad photos - just not a real railroad. I get a lot of grief from family members and close friends at the slightest mention of railroads though...
According to people who aren't us, we're all freakin' nuts anyway. I would personally be somewhat offended by "foamer" because I have not heard it used in a good sense. I consider myself a railfan, train buff, or I just call myself a train fanatic. If the shoe fits, after all... I have been into trains for many years so let them say what they might, it's a fine hobby. Never foamed, but have turned a few heads with my reaction to various trains in the past.
trainfan1221According to people who aren't us, we're all freakin' nuts.
According to people who aren't us, we're all freakin' nuts.
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
tree68 I think rail buff sounds a little more genteel than rail fan - perhaps connoting those who have an interest in trains, but don't necessarily seek them out.
The treasurer was a good fellow, despite his upbringing ( he certainly talked faster than anybody else at the college). Apparently, he took good care of the funds trusted to his care, and invested wisely such funds as were available for investment. His small son was not really popular with some students. On one occasion, one of the students was painting the treasurer's house, and the boy was standing inside the front door and bothering the painter with his talk. When the breaking point came, the student opened the screen door and made one or two swipes with his broad brush on the front of the boy. I was NOT that student, but I did help paint most of the buildings on the campus (I even sat in the kitchen window of the president's house, painting and having a pleasant conversation with the president's mother-in-law).
tree68Funny you mention "buff." Those who are interested in fire trucks, etc, are usually referred to as "fire buffs." I don't think I've ever heard the term "fire fan." I've heard "rail buff" and "train buff" before, though. I think rail buff sounds a little more genteel than rail fan - perhaps connoting those who have an interest in trains, but don't necessarily seek them out.
You mean you don't have "woo-woo's" up in your neck of the woods? Woo-woos: volunteer firefighters/EMTs that outfit their POVs as miniature ambulances and fire trucks?
I met a couple once at Rochelle that told me they were train enthusiasts.
tina
Foamer is a derogatory term used mostly by people on the inside..rail workers...to descibe those of us on the outside...interested people who are not employed in the industry.
tree68 Funny you mention "buff." Those who are interested in fire trucks, etc, are usually referred to as "fire buffs." I don't think I've ever heard the term "fire fan." I've heard "rail buff" and "train buff" before, though. I think rail buff sounds a little more genteel than rail fan - perhaps connoting those who have an interest in trains, but don't necessarily seek them out.
My understanding is that the term "buff" originated from the sartorially and fashionably correct young gentlemen fire buffs in England back in the 1800s, who were called that because of their customarily worn buff-colored coats.
Or something like that. I'll let someone else research that further, if you want.
- PDN.
mbkcs You mean you don't have "woo-woo's" up in your neck of the woods? Woo-woos: volunteer firefighters/EMTs that outfit their POVs as miniature ambulances and fire trucks?
Oh, sure. Heck, I ran a full-width bar and a siren when I was chief.
The fire equivalent of a foamer, but on the "inside" is a wacker.
It's a rule of thumb in the EMS world that you can tell the relative experience of an EMT by looking at his/her belt. The more they have hanging from it, the less time they've been in the business...
Ulrich Foamer is a derogatory term used mostly by people on the inside..rail workers...to descibe those of us on the outside...interested people who are not employed in the industry.
I first heard the term foamer applied to railfans back in the 70's from a fan friend who is also an engineer. He explained it was a derogatory term railroad employees used for most of us but especially the most avid.
But, "fan" is actually short for "fanatic". Thus baseball, football, hockey, afficianadoes are also called fanatic. As are so many who admire and follow people, activities, causes, etc. We often will say so and so is a real fanatic to emphasize how much a fan a person is. "Fan" is a term that has been so watered down from its roots it has become just a mild term. Thus "foamer" has become the replacement term in the popular nomanclature for those of us general or universal railfans while inside our kingdom refer to those of us who we feel are "over the top". We have to have a name and reference for everyone and everything and when the old wears thin, we reinvent.
During college, the term we used for an "over the top" railfan was "fit" - short for misfit.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I think a railfan is just someone who takes an interest in trains & railroading. Whether it's photography, history, travel, modeling, civil engeneering, transportation economics or simple romanticsim, like some people & sailing ships.
A foamer has no (or very few) friends. Has lost jobs, marriages and has bad health & hygene because of an some unhealthy fixation with trains. Probably gets some psychosexual thrill standing too close to the tracks as heavy tonnage speeds by. Like an alcoholic & his next drink, the foamer will forsake all to be near the next train that goes by.
When I see a man like the middle-aged gentleman I saw the other day, holding up for my approval a homemade poster of a CSX locomotive that I assume he had painted or drawn on there, I have to think that gentleman just might have some issues. He looked normal, but. . .and if, by chance, you're on this board, drop me a note.
We cannot define foamer seperate from railfan until we define railfan. Anybody from age one to over a hundred who takes time to watch a train go by can be catagorized as a railfan. Or buff. Or afficianado. It is those who do more than just casually watch who start toward foamer. At one time one of the more respected photographers and writers in the pages of Trains and Classic Trains used ot had pinned on the inside of his jacket his post cards and photo's which he had for sale...kind of a second flash if you will. Is he a foamer or a fan? Better or worse than another. If you or I were to pin our photos' inside our jacket and spread it open to show what we have for sale, what would you think of me or of others who did the same? Is the continual posting of the same 3/4 wedge and head on zoom shots a sign of a foamer? Our googling at them mean we are foamers? I think the term foamer, therefore, is relative. I am normal, nobody else is.
Ah---good ol' eccentricity-----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Murphy SidingPoppa_Zit My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community. So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff Ye Gods! You mean there's more than one of us out there? I'm always driving or walking through a town, usually a small farm town, to see what's left behind, and try to figure out what was there. It's sort of like being a railorad archeologist sometimes.
Ah, more members of the LAABPTPENA, otherwise known as the League of Abandoned Abutment, Bridge Pier and Tunnel Portal Enthusiasts of North America. Not my creation; a couple of friends found a good location and then had a very tedious wait before any trains showed up. But railroad archeology can be a wonderful diversion when trains are scarce.
John
cx500 Murphy Siding Poppa_Zit My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community. So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff Ye Gods! You mean there's more than one of us out there? I'm always driving or walking through a town, usually a small farm town, to see what's left behind, and try to figure out what was there. It's sort of like being a railorad archeologist sometimes. Ah, more members of the LAABPTPENA, otherwise known as the League of Abandoned Abutment, Bridge Pier and Tunnel Portal Enthusiasts of North America. Not my creation; a couple of friends found a good location and then had a very tedious wait before any trains showed up. But railroad archeology can be a wonderful diversion when trains are scarce. John
Murphy Siding Poppa_Zit My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community. So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff Ye Gods! You mean there's more than one of us out there? I'm always driving or walking through a town, usually a small farm town, to see what's left behind, and try to figure out what was there. It's sort of like being a railorad archeologist sometimes.
My wife and I do a fair bit of driving the backroads and finding old townsites---believe it or not there are quite a few out in our neck of the woods---we also do find a lot of remnants of trainyards and such. I've taken to taking photos of these remnants and then went looking for the pix that display the yards in operation. North of Stratford ON---loads of old ROW's. Lotsa good stuff for the history buff
blownout cylindercx500 Murphy SidingPoppa_Zit My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community. So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff Ye Gods! You mean there's more than one of us out there? I'm always driving or walking through a town, usually a small farm town, to see what's left behind, and try to figure out what was there. It's sort of like being a railorad archeologist sometimes. Ah, more members of the LAABPTPENA, otherwise known as the League of Abandoned Abutment, Bridge Pier and Tunnel Portal Enthusiasts of North America. Not my creation; a couple of friends found a good location and then had a very tedious wait before any trains showed up. But railroad archeology can be a wonderful diversion when trains are scarce. John My wife and I do a fair bit of driving the backroads and finding old townsites---believe it or not there are quite a few out in our neck of the woods---we also do find a lot of remnants of trainyards and such. I've taken to taking photos of these remnants and then went looking for the pix that display the yards in operation. North of Stratford ON---loads of old ROW's. Lotsa good stuff for the history buff
cx500 Murphy SidingPoppa_Zit My enjoyment comes from analyzing the history of the railroads in this country, and visiting once-vibrant towns abandoned by railroads to see what's left behind, both the physical plant as well as the aftereffects -- indelible imprints left on the community. So I guess that makes me a railroad history buff Ye Gods! You mean there's more than one of us out there? I'm always driving or walking through a town, usually a small farm town, to see what's left behind, and try to figure out what was there. It's sort of like being a railorad archeologist sometimes. Ah, more members of the LAABPTPENA, otherwise known as the League of Abandoned Abutment, Bridge Pier and Tunnel Portal Enthusiasts of North America. Not my creation; a couple of friends found a good location and then had a very tedious wait before any trains showed up. But railroad archeology can be a wonderful diversion when trains are scarce. John
There's a fellow up north of me who has made a hobby of studying what might have been as well as what was, and is. His flikr site has hundreds of pictures of old ROW's, bridges, etc. One of his searches has been for railroads that were planned, and possibly started, but never finished.
Then there's the now-retired forestry professor whose study of any place in the Adirondacks where there are, or were, rails on the ground has now yielded a third edition of his findings, this time in four volumes. I've worked with him a bit - his goal is to walk every ROW, which can be pretty challenging if the tracks have been gone for nearly 100 years,
Seeing what was, that is finding abandoned tunnels, bridges, etc...is a major part of the hobby for me. I think it is a great way to appreciate history too, even if it is only train related but it spreads to other things too. I know a lot more places than people would ever think I would because of my train hobby.
I have found artifacts, the biggest one, if you can call it an artifact, being the abandoned Paulinskill Viaduct buried in the woods in western New Jersey. And the feeling of seeing this beautiful structure for the first time is hard to describe, lets just say breathtaking is a way to begin.
I am a foaming railfan. I love trains and all known (and unknown, likely, when I discover them) aspects of railroading. Why worry about how someone else labels you? It is irrelevant. If you love trains a little or a lot, chances are you get a little foam going. So get out there and take some pictures or pace a train or listen to the scanner or look up mile posts on Google Earth and figure out which subdivision they belong in, subscribe to magazines, go to Folkston's Railwatch next year or whatever. Just don't get caught up in what someone else calls you while you follow your passion. More than likely whomever dreamed up the name Foamer has some passion he/she foams about too. So there.
I'm a Railfan, this guy is a Foamer:
http://youtu.be/qMcNp3BajtA
PS. I actually think he's faking it for comedic effect..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Well if that's a foamer.... sign me up... to foamers-not-so-anonymous that is.
I have been a railfan off and on for 10 years now. I have sorta re-emerged at the beginning of the year and have just gone nuts. I would have to say.. if I saw a NS Heritage unit around these parts I believe I would act about like that. I couldn't imagine if I saw one of THOSE units.
Thanks,
Proud Florida Foamer
If he is for real, the men in white coats should be around the corner.
If you have ever seen the movie "Polar Express" the loud mouthed kid the other kids called "know-it-all" would, in my opinion, qualify as a foamer. He knew more about a Berkshire locomotive than the guy that designed the thing and passionately shared all this knowledge with those that happened to be within earshot of him.
carnej1 I'm a Railfan, this guy is a Foamer: http://youtu.be/qMcNp3BajtA PS. I actually think he's faking it for comedic effect....
PS. I actually think he's faking it for comedic effect....
Yep - he is/was the manager there. Totally for effect...
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Railfans may sometimes have small pins representing their favouite RR, or aspect of RR'ing, on their hats, but I have yet to see one paint their faces with greasepaint in the livery of a RR or wear a "cheese hat" or some other outlandish outward showing of their devotion to some aspect of RR'ing. (The way some Footballer's do.)
I have yet to see one wearing a multi-color "rainbow" wig and clown outfit sitting at a grade crossing trying to influence the employees they are watching into making some particular move. (Like I see the dork trying to influence a pitcher at Baseball games on TV.)
And I know of no railfan that needs scantily clad young women jumping up and down in front of them to keep their interest up in what is happening on the rails. (The likes of which basketball and football fans do.)
As a "sport", train watching is rather self sustaining and not in need of artificially engendered excitement.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper VaporoAnd I know of no railfan that needs scantily clad young women jumping up and down in front of them to keep their interest up in what is happening on the rails. (The likes of which basketball and football fans do.)
Why don't we have that again?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Doesn't hurt, though...
Backstory - during a railfan event last year, this group of musicians (?) shows up. They're apparently shooting a music video and thought this would be a good spot. I have no idea where to look for it, though...
zugmann Semper VaporoAnd I know of no railfan that needs scantily clad young women jumping up and down in front of them to keep their interest up in what is happening on the rails. (The likes of which basketball and football fans do.) Why don't we have that again?
tree68 Semper VaporoAnd I know of no railfan that needs scantily clad young women jumping up and down in front of them to keep their interest up in what is happening on the rails. (The likes of which basketball and football fans do.) Doesn't hurt, though... Backstory - during a railfan event last year, this group of musicians (?) shows up. They're apparently shooting a music video and thought this would be a good spot. I have no idea where to look for it, though...
Uh... sorry, remind me as to WHY one would have any need or desire to "look for it"?
Semper VaporoUh... sorry, remind me as to WHY one would have any need or desire to "look for it"?
Masochist? Or maybe you like blue hair?
tree68 Semper VaporoUh... sorry, remind me as to WHY one would have any need or desire to "look for it"? Masochist? Or maybe you like blue hair?
Blue Hair and South Florida go together!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
"Uh... sorry, remind me as to WHY one would have any need or desire to "look for it"?"
There is a engine in it, Duh!
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Semper Vaporo I've said it before and I'll say it again... Railfans may sometimes have small pins representing their favouite RR, or aspect of RR'ing, on their hats, but I have yet to see one paint their faces with greasepaint in the livery of a RR or wear a "cheese hat" or some other outlandish outward showing of their devotion to some aspect of RR'ing. (The way some Footballer's do.) I have yet to see one wearing a multi-color "rainbow" wig and clown outfit sitting at a grade crossing trying to influence the employees they are watching into making some particular move. (Like I see the dork trying to influence a pitcher at Baseball games on TV.) And I know of no railfan that needs scantily clad young women jumping up and down in front of them to keep their interest up in what is happening on the rails. (The likes of which basketball and football fans do.) As a "sport", train watching is rather self sustaining and not in need of artificially engendered excitement.
Very well put. Thanks. I had a blast today catching a CSX run North up the Callahan Sub from Baldwin. I unexpectedly had the chance to pace it... Then catch it again at another crossing around MP17ish. Video can be found on my YouTube Channel Gracebeliever077. But I was like a little kid almost on that 17MP catch. I was heading to St. George, GA for some Norfolk Southern action and lucked up. It was a blast. I think I am still wiping a little foam off my sleeve. LOL.
tree68 carnej1 I'm a Railfan, this guy is a Foamer: http://youtu.be/qMcNp3BajtA PS. I actually think he's faking it for comedic effect.... Yep - he is/was the manager there. Totally for effect...
That guy is hilarious...
Is that an Alco? Oh my GOD...OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ulrich tree68 Semper VaporoAnd I know of no railfan that needs scantily clad young women jumping up and down in front of them to keep their interest up in what is happening on the rails. (The likes of which basketball and football fans do.) Doesn't hurt, though... Backstory - during a railfan event last year, this group of musicians (?) shows up. They're apparently shooting a music video and thought this would be a good spot. I have no idea where to look for it, though... Is that an Alco? Oh my GOD...OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
With Class lights no less!!!!!
BaltACDWith Class lights no less!!!!!
Even better - it's a bona fide movie star, having appeared in the movie "Atomic Train." (I'm not sure that one even stopped at video...)
Something like this ? (Note: Not my blog, website, or photo - been around quite a few years, too . . . ):
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k1HsPh3JxiU/S0p4sgYCDTI/AAAAAAAADTM/u66EzItHTWo/s400/women-maidenform.jpg
- Paul North.
As locomotives age, do the headlights become ditch lights?
rfpjohn As locomotives age, do the headlights become ditch lights?
No, but they do drop from above the windshield down to the low hood....
Actually, I am just here for the pictures....
I don't know what I would be classified as. Knowing the technical details of the various locomotives and such kind of takes a back seat to just "being there". Back when I as growing up, my dad was an avid rail fan. We had a train room in the basement, his Lionel trains covered one wall, we had an HO layout in the room as well, along with all kinds of railroad memorabilia, and even a crossbuck mounted on the wall at the bottom of the basement stairs. On weekends, especially during the summer, my dad would takes us boys (5 of us) out to the tracks (Bryn Mawr up near O'Hare, Elmhurst, Bensenville, Franklin Park, etc.) to just sit and watch some trains go by. My grandparents lived in Brookfield, about 3 blocks south of the Burlington Northern, so, on any given Sunday when we were visiting, my brothers and I would be hanging out at the Brookfield station, watching trains. In addition, starting the summer after 5th grade, you could find my friend and I hanging out along the ICG main that ran through Hillside (Freeport Sub, I believe)
The thrill, if you will, for me, has always been just the watching. I took up photography of trains about 20 years ago, and I enjoy it quite a bit. It has to do with the solitude interrupted by a passing train, and then more solitude. I remember thinking how great it was to be along the tracks waiting for a train, and seeing the headlight in the distance, and the anticipation that came from it.
As far as the difference between "foamer" and "railfan" goes, I have met many of both stripes, and I will avoid a foamer at all costs. They tend to be loud, obnoxious, and boorish. In fact, I was out shooting one day a few years ago, out at Rochelle, and got cursed out by some individual in a pair over coveralls and engineer's hat, that was festooned with "fallen flag" buttons, and pins, because I wasn't taking "proper roster shots".... whatever the heck those are.
Every hobby attracts people who are into it at different levels.
Around here, as a side note, an obnoxious fire buff is known as a "yahoo".
The member formerly known as "TimChgo9"
The word Foamer is an insult to people who have Autism. F stands for an expletive we can not say, O stands for Overreactive, A stands for Arrogant, M is for Mentally Retarded, E is for Eccentric, and R is for Railfans. It is a bad word and it should not be in anyone's vocabulary. The acronym is as bad as the word and nobody should say it ever.
A railfan is someone who likes trains and photographs them also has a collection of memorabilia books and models. Foamer is an acronymic insult used by those in the industry and other railfan to hate young railfan to start a fight. Foamer stands for (expletive) Overreactive Arrogant Mentally Retarded Eccentric Railfans and both words are extremely bad it should never be said and should never be used in any vocabulary.
The term "foamer" predates current autism awareness by many years. Many, many years.
While I sympathize with those dealing with autism, this is clearly over the top over-sensitivity. What's next? Can't refer to the white sudsy stuff on top of my adult beverage as "foam?"
It's all about context.
Remember - Judas is a name. "You Judas" is a biblical epithet.
geomodelrailroaderThe word Foamer is an insult to people who have Autism. F stands for an expletive we can not say, O stands for Overreactive, A stands for Arrogant, M is for Mentally Retarded, E is for Eccentric, and R is for Railfans. It is a bad word and it should not be in anyone's vocabulary. The acronym is as bad as the word and nobody should say it ever.
The world needs to grow a pair in their Big Boy pants. Because you breathe, someone, somewhere thinks you shouldn't.
The English language (and all other languages) have context as a part of their ability to communicate. Words used in one context precipitate a war and in another context can facilitate peace. The word is not the offender, it is the context the word is used in that does the trick. Witness the current Insurance Company TV ad with the teen age girl and early middle age 'businessman' - they are saying the very same words, but communicating diametrically opposed thoughts.
And I gotta say - that's the first time I've ever seen that description - even as long as this thread ran while active.
The foam most people associate with "foamer" is either that which occurs in the boiler, or that which drips from the mouth of the "rabid" railfan at the sight of a train.
Of all my years on the railroad - the only times I've heard someone use the term "foamer" , the person using the term was a railfan/foamer themselves. The term isn't used much by the 'regular' non-railfan employees around here at least.
And I've never seen the full spelled-put acronym that was described here. I think someone made that up after the fact in an effort to take offense. What do the cool people call it now? Being triggered?
zugmann Of all my years on the railroad - the only times I've heard someone use the term "foamer" , the person using the term was a railfan/foamer themselves. The term isn't used much by the 'regular' non-railfan employees around here at least. And I've never seen the full spelled-put acronym that was described here. I think someone made that up after the fact in an effort to take offense. What do the cool people call it now? Being triggered?
I have heard railroaders on the radio refer to "FRN"s, where R=Rail and N=Nut, and the F word is best not typed out. But that might be limited to specific areas. The term "foamers" seems to be used mostly by railfans, referring to the very enthusiastic but rather naive segment of the community. As sometimes at a steam special, "foam was thick on the ground".
Around here I've always heared it as a statement of endearment and self-mocking. As with most things, what it important is how it is said, not what is said.
geomodelrailroader [posted dec6,2016 @0239am] A railfan is someone who likes trains and photographs them also has a collection of memorabilia books and models. Foamer is an acronymic insult used by those in the industry and other railfan to hate young railfan to start a fight. Foamer stands for (expletive) Overreactive Arrogant Mentally Retarded Eccentric Railfans and both words are extremely bad it should never be said and should never be used in any vocabulary.
"Posted by geomodelrailroader on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 2:34 AM
I noticed the above two post on this Thread on the afternoon of Dec 7. I had read them and decided that the poster was was probably suffering from a case of over-sensitivity caused by insomnia.. I had decided not to to add anything, but after some thought I could not let it go without a comment.
Autism (ASDA spectrum disorder ) is a very problematic condition, with many manifestations and diagnoses; it is not to be made light of. It is one of those conditions that has gained more and more publicity, over the last few years. If interested here's a link to start with@ http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm
I would question as to motivation, why someone would go back to a thread that has content from May of2009 to current. Then try and start a confrontation on a subject of 'Foaming' that has its roots going back a number of years in this railfan hobby. Anyone monitoring thses Forums and Magazine content since 2011 would have a pretty good idea as to the implied meanings, as well as, the definitions of the term 'foamer'.
Go back and re-read this Thread and its posts. Your question is answered pretty well all the way back to the original post. The if you want to set up a strawman and troll. I would advise that you go for it, and look for some psychological counciling for yourself as well.
Languages change... mainly due to ignorance. People hear a word they don't know and assign a meaning that sort of fits their concept of what was being said, or because it sounds like some other word they sort'a know. Or just because they feel like it.
I can think of dozens of words that have changed over my life-time and I have to be careful of my use of some of them.
Refer to the "Gay Nineties" and you have to specify whether you are referring to the "carefree 1890's" or the "homosexual revolution of the 1990's".
"Bad" for a while meant "Good" [Michael Jackson's song, "I'm Bad, I'm Bad"]
Charlton Heston got in trouble for using the word "Niggardly" in a speech, but the word means "Stingy" and has no racial overtones, other than the 1st 2 syllables.
The ignorant and insensitive people that use the word “Foamer” in reference to Autism probably never heard the word used in reference to fans of Trains.
I can certainly take offense at the use of ANY word if I want to put my mind to changing it to an acronym… or I can accept it as a compliment if I decide on a different set of words to make it an acronym. Free, Open And Merry Excellent Railfan. Fine Observer And Minister of Ecumenical Railroading. Financer Of Antique Master Egg Rollers. Before you complain that my “Acronymising” the word FOAMER… I don’t see my choices as any stupider than those mentioned above in reference to Autism.
ACRONYM = A Coded Rendition Of Names Yielding Meaning.
Or make it plural!
ACRONYMS = A Coded Rendition Of Names Yielding Meaning, Sometimes..
Years ago I read that "foam" has applied to railfans meant "far out and mental". That's why I rarely use the term, reserving it for the few bad apples in railfandom that make the rest look bad.
My coworkers use foamer for all railfans. (Well, maybe not when someone has brought their child or grandchild down to see a train go by.) FRN used to be used, but foamer seems to have become the more favored term.
Most of my co-workers know I'm a railfan. Some have asked me if I'm a foamer. They haven't heard the far out and mental thing, rather thinking the general version of someone be so excited that they are foaming at the mouth when they see a train. I tell them that I'll admit to being a FRN but not a foamer and then tell them the rest.
Jeff
Semper Vaporo People hear a word they don't know and assign a meaning that sort of fits their concept of what was being said, or because it sounds like some other word they sort'a know. Or just because they feel like it.
Reminds me of a former co-worker who never used a nickle word if a malaprop quarter word might sound more important. When they asked me to "initialize" my time card, I was often tempted to ask for an eraser...
I was out and about the other day and noted someone that seems to have retroactively assigned an acronym to the word printed in big white letters on those big red octagonal street signs at intersections... seems the word means:
"Slight Tap On Pedal"
The fool seemed to trust that I had good reaction time, which fortunately for him, I just barely did.
Semper Vaporo I was out and about the other day and noted someone that seems to have retroactively assigned an acronym to the word printed in big white letters on those big red octagonal street signs at intersections... seems the word means: "Slight Tap On Pedal" The fool seemed to trust that I had good reaction time, which fortunately for him, I just barely did.
I was told once it meant, "State Trooper On Patrol".
Semper Vaporo"Slight Tap On Pedal"
But, I totally paused... (from the movie "Clueless")
In the micro-brew, beer geek and craft beer world there are people that will be at an event at a brewery and then take the brewer to task in a manner similar to this: "Why didn't you use more finishing hops?" "Why don't you make a pale ale with a little wheat?" and so forth. Always a somewhat critical opinion that the person trying to have a viable business just has to answer. The proper response should be, "Why don't you open your own damned brewery?" I see similarities to the foamer.
Another is when at a classic car show, someone will nitpick a car and find all kinds of things that are not "original." This happens at shows all the time which is one reason that I don't put my cars in shows anymore. One guy kept on about the additional gauges on the dashboard that were installed who knows when. "No, they aren't original but so what?" He said, "well that just isn't right." I asked him if he owned a car like mine. He said no. I said, "why not peddle your papers?" Everyone around cracked up.
In my book, "Foamer" is a derrogatory term for those who are so over the top they make a bad name for the rest of us "normal" railfans and present a danger to themselves and others. I don't really have a problem with foamers who have mental illnesses such as autism, ect., since they can't help it for the most part, and as long as they are supervised (if need be) so as not to become a danger when around active railroad environments.
Many railroad employees I know don't mind us "buffs/railfans/enthusiasts" (whichever you call yourself), as we tend to mind our own businuess and stay out of the way so they can do their job. My problem and theirs are with the "foamers" who are willing to do anything to get that picture, including tresspass, break and enter, and more, but should know better.
The foamers we all hate are the ones who will actually threaten employees, groups/museums, and others because they did something they don't like, or were told they were tresspassing. I've seen foamers put on Hi-vis vests and walk around active yards and railroad lines thinking it's okay. Their excuse? "I know everything there is to know about trains, I know what I'm doing"
I know a railroad employee who lost his job, and from there, his home because a foamer took a picture of him dismounting a locomotive in the wrong way and reported him. This has happened to many others, sadly.
These people (foamers) are downright dangerous to themselves and others, and on top of it are downright annoying and embaressing to the rest of us; espeacially when they talk everything about trains to anyone in earshot, as if they even understand what they're talking about. Classically, I see the family of four trying to enjoy themselves and get away from him, obviously walking away while he chases after them to share his next "fact". No wonder "normal" people and railroaders think ALL of us are like that.
I was visiting IRM this past summer, where you can go up a set of steps to look into the cab and talk with the crew;and one guy was just going off on the crew about how they should paint it this way and that way, and the marker light were in the wrong place, and (I'm quoting him here) "That's not how the Frisco fired their locmotives, you're doing it wrong! Don't bother firing if you can't do it right!" Then, to my disbelief, he asked for a cab ride, and told them to #^&$ themselves when told "no". I went up to the crew, saying "We're not all like that you know, us guys on the ground taking pictures, we volunteer where we can and respect you for what you do" The fireman smiled and said "We know, if we thought there was no such thing as a decent railfan out there, we would have sold this thing for scrap and left long ago, we're here for the decent people like you."
We've all seen the kind of people I've described above around various places, and I (rightfully) have a disdain for them. They should know better, but they still go out and do this kind of stuff. If you're widely considered a "foamer" or "one of those guys" by other people, you've really done something wrong to earn that title.
Posted by S. Connor on Monday, December 12, 2016 12:34 PM [In part copied from his post] "...We've all seen the kind of people I've described above around various places, and I (rightfully) have a disdain for them. They should know better, but they still go out and do this kind of stuff. If you're widely considered a "foamer" or "one of those guys" by other people, you've really done something wrong to earn that title..."
The final part of S.Conor's statement is so true. Anyone who has railfanned around has seen the architypical FOAMER. They are hard to miss, generally obnoxious and somewhat insanely present at a lot of venues. They are the 'picture in one's mind' when the term Foamer is mentioned. Anyone that has any doubts of what a Foamer can mean is welcome to go to YouTube.com
@https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=railroad+foamer
There you should be a whole list of these insane nutjobs preforming for the cameras; while making themselves look like a mule's behind.
The S&NC skit was staged, but certainly fits the bill! (That's the RR's GM's voice, as I understand it...)
geomodelrailroader The word Foamer is an insult to people who have Autism. F stands for an expletive we can not say, O stands for Overreactive, A stands for Arrogant, M is for Mentally Retarded, E is for Eccentric, and R is for Railfans. It is a bad word and it should not be in anyone's vocabulary. The acronym is as bad as the word and nobody should say it ever.
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samfp1943Anyone who has railfanned around has seen the architypical FOAMER. They are hard to miss, generally obnoxious and somewhat insanely present at a lot of venues. They are the 'picture in one's mind' when the term Foamer is mentioned. Anyone that has any doubts of what a Foamer can mean is welcome to go to YouTube.com @https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=railroad+foamer There you should be a whole list of these insane nutjobs preforming for the cameras; while making themselves look like a mule's behind.
Railfan = One who like trains, and will watch and/or photograph/video record them from public property, obeying all laws and rules needed.
Foamer = One obsessed with trains, who will do anything needed to get his/her "shot" and will trespass, break any/all laws needed. Esp. One who will trespass on railroad property, and get angry when informed to leave, thinking they have "the right" to be there.
Acronym of Foamer = Something someone dreamed up to take or cause offense, needlessly...
Coming from a railfan/rail buff, who has seen a Foamer or two in his time....
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
samfp1943 geomodelrailroader [posted dec6,2016 @0239am] A railfan is someone who likes trains and photographs them also has a collection of memorabilia books and models. Foamer is an acronymic insult used by those in the industry and other railfan to hate young railfan to start a fight. Foamer stands for (expletive) Overreactive Arrogant Mentally Retarded Eccentric Railfans and both words are extremely bad it should never be said and should never be used in any vocabulary. "Posted by geomodelrailroader on Tuesday, December 06, 2016 2:34 AM The word Foamer is an insult to people who have Autism. F stands for an expletive we can not say, O stands for Overreactive, A stands for Arrogant, M is for Mentally Retarded, E is for Eccentric, and R is for Railfans. It is a bad word and it should not be in anyone's vocabulary. The acronym is as bad as the word and nobody should say it ever. I noticed the above two post on this Thread on the afternoon of Dec 7. I had read them and decided that the poster was was probably suffering from a case of over-sensitivity caused by insomnia.. I had decided not to to add anything, but after some thought I could not let it go without a comment. Autism (ASDA spectrum disorder ) is a very problematic condition, with many manifestations and diagnoses; it is not to be made light of. It is one of those conditions that has gained more and more publicity, over the last few years. If interested here's a link to start with@ http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm I would question as to motivation, why someone would go back to a thread that has content from May of2009 to current. Then try and start a confrontation on a subject of 'Foaming' that has its roots going back a number of years in this railfan hobby. Anyone monitoring thses Forums and Magazine content since 2011 would have a pretty good idea as to the implied meanings, as well as, the definitions of the term 'foamer'. Go back and re-read this Thread and its posts. Your question is answered pretty well all the way back to the original post. The if you want to set up a strawman and troll. I would advise that you go for it, and look for some psychological counciling for yourself as well.
1. Not an acronyml derived from "foaming at the mouth" as in a rabid railfan.
2. Professionally speaking, the term has no relation to any of the spectrum disorders.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I had to use a vacation day before the end of the year or lose it. So I get up at 5:30 this morning and make the hour drive to Hamlet, NC getting there before sunrise. I fan from Hamlet down to Pembroke and from there to Fayetteville, NC where I'm typing this after 9:00 PM now. I don't think it got much above freezing all day. I'm one of the few people that doesn't care that much about the locomotives. They all look alike to me anyway. *gasps* l'm a CSX fan and I try to photograph them whenever possible. I think Pine Junction, Indiana is railfan heaven. A manifest train is my favorite train and I really get excited to see a rare or fallen flag boxcar. I love fanning the Pokey even if it is Norfolk Southern. ; ) I love photographing/videoing trains at night. I started making spreadsheets of the trains I saw as well as sheets for locations. I enjoy following the tracks on Google maps and finding abandoned buildings to explore and photograph as a bonus. Photography is what got me into trains and there's nothing like that sweet feeling when you look at your pics and think to yourself... Oh yeah I nailed that shot! Trackide time is my happy time... : )
And find the word FOAMER offensive nearly all of them have autism like I do. And I did not coin the insults people on the website train orders did one of them being Danny Lawson who goes under the train orders handle Realist along with a couple other people on that form read the train orders form for 2012 and you will see the insulting words right there. They are also in the word fomite with predates the word foamer. I support most of the people in the autism community and we are trying to find a cure along with several other railfans who have my condition find the word foamer offensive because most people like those on train orders use it grudgingly and they use it as an acronym. I don't need to say the acronym ever again because you seen it and it is very very bad this was first used on website train orders and most of the people on there are retired railroaders or other railfans who hate the younger generation and those with autism. The only letters and the word foamer that have changed over the years and each time they have been insulting are the F and the M in foamer everyone knows what the f stands for and I don't need to say it because it is an expletive. When autism people joined the railfan community we found the M and foamer offensive also. M stands for mentally retarded this dates back all the way to war war 2 and the Great Depression where they control people with Autism with drugs shock therapy and even killed them by doing lobotomies by drilling into their skulls. Here is the big disclaimer don't use the word foamer around people with autism we find it offensive especially when people use it as an acronym. I'm a railfan and nothing more.
Foamer derived from the word fomite which is used in the 1940s and early 1930s to describe railfans. As everyone knows these were the years that people were doing drug therapy shock therapy and the lobotomy executions on people with autism. The m in the acronym foamer refers to mentally retarded people with Autism who are railfans find this offensive. It was changed recently to describe one who foams at the mouth when they see a train the back in World War II it had a different meaning and it came mostly from Eastern train crews and European train crews to describe railfans today East Coast crews and those in Canada have shortened it to FMR and that is offensive. I have seen this used a couple times on train orders all those guys do is boast about it and even make rude jokes about it. I and the other railfans found it offensive I am one of four people in the Idaho Railfans group who have autism the other ones are Geebmechine, Grand Tetons, AJV, and myself Geomodelrailroader. We are always picked on by members of our group and sometimes the administrator of the group have kicked us out. I don't take pretty well to people from train orders inside other railfan community groups although most of us lack the knowledge like myself every single time I confront somebody from train orders they call me a foamer, use FMR, or say each word that is in the acronym. I have gotten into fights with Realist, Mikado 1555, Hotwater, and Spikes and the source of all the foamer insults is the guy who originally created them Jeff Frost also known as Mikado 1555 he works for Strasburg Railroad he and his co-workers used the word foamer as a company joke and the original post can be found on train orders. They don't find the word foamer offensive but out west were all of the excursion railroads are owned by the railroad companies or preservation groups we find it pretty offensive Hot Water does not like the term at all his real name is Doyle McCormick and you know who Doyle McCormack is he is the preservation manager at the Oregon Railroad Museum in Portland. Ed Dickens and Steve Lee at the Union Pacific they don't like it either and neither does Wasatch Contractors these guys rely on railfans to operate. Out west the excursions are thriving because of donations from the railfans while back east they are declining because back East they have a lot of excursion railroads. Excursion railroads are not money makers instead of making money they lose money because they are very mean to railfan especially those with mental disabilities like autism. This has got to stop and I even called out the guys who are doing it on train orders before they kicked me out of their groups. My voice will be heard one day we need to stop using the word foamer offensively because train crews and railroad police don't like being called a bull or shack because mostly everyone has read The Road or watched the movie Emperor of the North. Jack London was very offensive to railfans and hobos when his book was published in 1942 since then foamer and fomite have been used to refer to the railfans and shack and bull have been used to refer to the train crews and the railroad police. As you know if you read the book The Road or watched Emperor of the North Shack was a bully and a murderer who threw hammers at hobos, railfans, and even his own crew. He even brutalized​ them resulting in some of them dying or worse being ran over by his train as he highballed. The name calling has got to stop they don't like us calling them names and we don't like them calling us names.
geomodelrailroaderAnd find the word FOAMER offensive nearly all of them have autism like I do.
The word "foamer" predates the current knowledge of autism. As far as I'm concerned, a foamer is is simply someone with an exceedingly overenthusiastic interest in railroading.
I think most folk's concept of a foamer is summed up in a video posted several years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqvwnxgxazY
As noted in the other 'foamer' thread: watch the videos in the right order to get the full effect. I think it is 'telling' that most of the mundanes involved in the 'viral' spread of that "train spotter video" had no idea it was in fact a parody.
tree68I think most folk's concept of a foamer is summed up in a video posted several years ago.
Watch this one first (the problem with the URL was that it was some image- browsing scam 'utility' SEO-optimized to appear early in searches as if it were the actual video - now I know to watch for that stuff...)
and then watch the 'famous' one
Now you know why the over-the-top tropes are so funny.
RME Watch this one first (I don't know enough to edit the URL so Kalmbach will display it inline in a post here)
Watch this one first (I don't know enough to edit the URL so Kalmbach will display it inline in a post here)
Here is how I do it: Click right into the running video. Click left on copy video-url. Copy into post. https://youtu.be/RhYXNwvcl6A Regards, Volker (germany)
Well, when he gets a little older and more mature I'm sure he'll realize he should save that over-the-top enthusiasm for big steam!
Although that BL-2, the "Basset Hound of locomotives" is pretty cool in it's own right.
To paraphrase General Robert E. Lee, "It's glorious to see such enthusiasm in one so young!"
I could call someone brilliant, or Brilliant, or "brilliant", or BRILLIANT.
The first one probably means the dictionary definition of being intelligent, or shiny, or witty, or distinguished, or possibly the way some diamonds are faceted.
The second one, because the first letter is capitalized, might be a person's name or the name of a commercial product.
The third one, because it is enclosed in quotes, might mean that I am calling into question a person's intelligence or intent. As in, ‘That posting was "brilliant"!’
The fourth one, because it is all capitalized, might mean I am shouting it, which may or may not mean that I am praising some action or complaining about it, you would have to infer the real meaning by the context it is in... it also might mean it is an acronym, but without context, one would probably have no idea what it means...
Let's see what I can do as I write this:
Brainy Rigorous Intelligent Locally Literate Innovative And Novel Teacher
Boneheaded Rascally Illiterate Little Louse In A Nutty Tiff
Take yer CHOISE!
However, you cannot know my meaning because there is no context to apply here. You cannot see if I am smiling, or in a snit, or ... ???
You can call me a foamer if you wish, and I will only be insulted by the way you say it. Say it in a friendly manner and I will smile, hang my head and admit that I do get excited by the visual of a Steam Locomotive moving fast. Say it in an unfriendly manner and I will probably respond in kind... but I will try to refrain from repeating your hand gestures.
@RME:
Been a railfan since I was a kid. Old enough to remember the sometimes lonesome wail of a steam whistle and could recognize the signature of engineers who played them well almost making them a welcome tune. I lived just a few miles from the nearest crossing (could hear him blow for three or four crossings, and DAMN, those sounds were sweet) I laid awake some nights hoping to hear the sound that only a well tuned steam whistle, properly played, could generate. Yes, it's a trip back into my childhood to hear one of them today. They dominated the years of my childhood, and although I was excited when Diesels hit the rails, somehow the "BLAT" of their horns held no comparison to the sweet sound of the steam whistle well played by an experienced engineer.
It was sad to see the behemoths of the rails disappear in favor of efficency. Those engines were magnificent beasts, and the sheer size of some of them was something to behold. Technological progress takes no prisoners, and sadly, steam was inefficient enough it lost the battle for survival.
I can't help but wonder what progress will bring to the rails in the future. Will the younger generation even realize steam existed without visiting a museum? Doubtful in my mind.
In the Sixties I was working a fire station near a crossing. One of the last steam engines to use the road blew for crossings in late evening while he and I were playing Cribbage. I and the guy I was working with commented on the sound, the engineer's skill with the whistle, and the realization it would likely be the last time we heard that performance. Sadly, it was not to be heard again.
Times change: memories remain.
Railfan? Always. Foamer? Never. Always respectful of those doing the job.
Norm
Speaking professionally, I am certain many "foamers" are not on the spectrum. Additionally, I believe the condition is badly overdiagnosed.
schlimmAdditionally, I believe the condition is badly overdiagnosed.
Agreed. The degree of excitement varies considerably between individuals.
On a somewhat related note, I've noted that those of whatever faction they'd fall into that photograph trains all seem to think that they're Ansel Adams and get their undies bundled about the photo rights as if it were a bloody Picasso. There are very few really good rail photographers. That is not to say that everyone else is bad, but it's not terribly difficult to just snap pictures of locomotives, and most of what I see is just that.
It is just like some occupations that get bandied about here...
90% of all railfans give the other 10% a bad name!
P-LineSoo On a somewhat related note, I've noted that those of whatever faction they'd fall into that photograph trains all seem to think that they're Ansel Adams and get their undies bundled about the photo rights as if it were a bloody Picasso. There are very few really good rail photographers. That is not to say that everyone else is bad, but it's not terribly difficult to just snap pictures of locomotives, and most of what I see is just that.
While I hear what you are saying, and agree that the majority of rail photos are essentially average rather than valuable works of art, the fact remains that the rights to that image remain entirely with the photographer. Where they get annoyed is when somebody else feels it is valuable enough to steal and use without crediting the owner. I have seen somebody granting permission to a third party to repost one of my pictures that was on his own website. In fact he had grabbed it off the web and was now claiming it to be one he owned. Is it any wonder that those who care about their better images get p***d off and become careful about how they share.
P-LineSooThat is not to say that everyone else is bad, but it's not terribly difficult to just snap pictures of locomotives, and most of what I see is just that.
"Historic Records" and roster shots notwithstanding (Gee, I wish we'd gotten a picture of....), your run-of-the-mill 3/4 wedge shot is rarely anything extraordinary, as noted. Far better are the images in which the train/locomotive is but an element in the overall composition.
The issue of stealing images/calling them your own is an issue. I've heard of people cropping an image to remove the watermark placed there by the original photographer. That's pretty bad... Yet some seem to persist. Generally speaking, once it's discovered what's going on, the users of whatever forum/photo site the thief is posting on usually come together and go after him (it's usually a him).
The "fair use" doctrine probably applies to the use of images here, inasmuch as this forum is hardly a commercial enterprise (ie, the posters are not trying to sell a product or the image). I would argue that as long the original creator of the content (print or image) is appropriately credited, all is good. Whether the fact that we must link to the image constitutes due credit might be a gray area.
tree68I would argue that as long the original creator of the content (print or image) is appropriately credited, all is good. Whether the fact that we must link to the image constitutes due credit might be a gray area.
There are exceptions. Much of the information in the T1 Trust repository is understood not to be 'for republication' and, in fact, some of the items placed there are under copyright which has not been waived. Simply because an image has been posted on an Internet-accessible source does not put it in the public domain where simple naming of the photographer makes publication OK.
For many years, and I strongly suspect to this day, there are many images that are 'traded' as prints between railfans which have never been published, posted or shared outside that community. Some of these, like the original GE cab unit demonstrators, eventually see print; many more, like the front-end coal firing arrangements in a question on the Classic Trains forum, may remain hidden indefinitely ... until you have something of equivalent perceived value to trade. If you think that scanning and uploading one of these images to a Web site and then linking to it will be "OK" as long as you credit the original photo trader ... you may have another 'think' coming.
Numerous sites do NOT like, or approve of, the practice of 'hotlinking' (instead of copying and uploading, aka 'stealing', a physical image) as it involves what used to be considerable bandwidth each time the hotlinked image is used. No amount of crediting the original source will make a proscribed hotlink somehow more acceptable. In those cases it might be argued that securing posting permission from the original source is in fact 'better'... but I would not think that mere attribution would substitute for permission in many, perhaps most, of such cases.
RMENumerous sites do NOT like, or approve of, the practice of 'hotlinking'...
And more than a few block the practice entirely.
geomodelrailroader wrote:
Hot Water does not like the term at all his real name is Doyle McCormick and you know who Doyle McCormack is he is the preservation manager at the Oregon Railroad Museum in Portland.
Okay, I need to set this part straight, right here and now, Hot Water is NOT Doyle McCormack(Please at least spell Doyle's last name right).
Hot Water's real name is Jack Wheelihan(I think I got that one right) Jack is a very well known member on the OGR(ogaugerr.com) forum. Jack is very involved with the 4449, and has fired for Doyle many times, and has been involved with the 844 program in the past as well.
Now I don't know what geomodelrailroader's real story is, but he is definitely WRONG about Hot Water's real name, I don't believe a word of his rambling about the word FOAMER being an insult towards those with Autism, I don't know if he really IS Autistic, but I am starting to suspect that he is nothing more than a TROLL.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Don't shoot the messenger.
https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/2014/09/12/what-it-about-autism-and-trains
BLS53 Don't shoot the messenger. https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/2014/09/12/what-it-about-autism-and-trains
Certainly a far more reasoned explanation than was advanced here. And certainly one I'll buy into.
It's funny that the writer mentions spinning objects, given the current fad of fidget spinners (which is not to say that they don't have value as a theraputic device, only that they've gone beyond that and into fad territory).
A ham radio site had a picture of a morse code key, calling it the original fidget spinner...
There's a half dozen or so other credible links that come up through a Google search.
schlimm Speaking professionally, I am certain many "foamers" are not on the spectrum. Additionally, I believe the condition is badly overdiagnosed.
I agree with it being overdiagnosed. My daughter's a Special Ed teacher, and her classes keep increasing in size. Asperger's Syndrome appears to be the "trendy" one.
BLS53 schlimm Speaking professionally, I am certain many "foamers" are not on the spectrum. Additionally, I believe the condition is badly overdiagnosed. I agree with it being overdiagnosed. My daughter's a Special Ed teacher, and her classes keep increasing in size. Asperger's Syndrome appears to be the "trendy" one.
Speaking for personal experience here, being one who has grown up with Asperger's, having a sibling with it, and knowing several others with it as well, some of whom are also into railroading. Allow me to make a few points.
First the "overdiagnosis" debate is hard to quantify. That is, because science and society still aren't quite sure how to treat "mental disorders". The finicky thing is each case is vastly different from person to person. For many, the "disorder" is really just an abnormality, while for others, it is dibilitating. So the question of this is nearly impossible to resolve while this is unsettled. Many are "overdiagnosed", but at the same time the definitions are somewhat loose, and the symptoms of the issue are really over-treatment than the diagnosis (as in the special ed example above). At the end of the day, the steps taken post-diagnosis are the most important. Many end up taking medications for things such as improved focus. Like the "disorder" itself, sometimes it helps, other times people search for years and years, even when there isn't a huge issue. That's just bad parenting and medical care. None of this is to say that there aren't any bad diagnostic cases - but the majority are onto something, generally speaking.
Second is the interesting point about Asperger's in particular. Remember here, I've been diagnosed with it for a decade, have grown up through school with it, and it is really the driving force behind my interest in this industry, and is already leading me into the industry as a clear career path. The thing about Asperger's is that it is a spectrum, and really appears, more than probably anything else in the "autsim spectrum" to be more of a different way of thinking than something mentally "wrong". A good way to describe it is being "wired differently" up top, as far as a metaphor for it goes.
This sort of thing, as a medical diagnosis, no doubt annoys some because it again isn't like polio or cancer where the diagnosis is "yup, x y and z are the issue, here is how it is fixed or isn't". Truth be told, it is nebulous and the "solution" could be just about anything, on a case-by-case basis.
So long story short, Asperger's generally impacts two things: social skills, and acedemic/mental capability. The spectrum starts with increased mental "skill" as far as things such as studying or picking up skills, and comes with some social skill holes, which make these people, especially in school/adolescent years, seem "odd" or "different". But, there are a LOT of very smart people in this part of the spectrum. In fact, many experts believe that many of the "big names" in the STEM fields in particular had Asperger's, with the hallmarks of social weakness yet brilliant minds (think Archimedes, Da Vinci, Edison etc). Essentially, these people generally spend much more time interested or focused on one particualar topic in life (enter trains here), and generally do very well in school or picking up new skills. Farther down the spectrum, this increased acedemic capability trails off as the social issues get worse. This is where it becomes debilitating.
Third: So we know it is a real "thing". Again, huge amounts of debate as to whether it is a real "disorder" or is just "different", or where on the spectrum the boundary lies. In either way, many benefit from the use of medication of various forms. And for Asperger's particularly, railroads are often the "one big topic" people pickup on which guides much of what they do from a personal standpoint. It can help them to focus on one particular area of interest.
Fourth, for example: Now maybe this is too much information about myself, but for the sake of the discussion, here we go:
As I said, I have Asperger's. I'm on the part of the spectrum where I do really really well in school/acedemic settings - many would consider me part of the "gifted student" crowd - a label which is misplaced in many contexts. Great GPA, 99th percentile in most subjects, the ACT, etc. On the flipside I tend to struggle in social settings, most noteably those with unfamiliarity. Generally speaking, once familiar with the people, myself and others like me tend to do alright, but can be very uncertain in new places with new people. For me, the two balance each other out, by and large.
So, looping all of this back to why we're here: trains. My "one big topic" is railroads. Since as early as I can remember, it is been a burning interest. Many people are able to turn this "disorder's" burning interest into a career, providied they have the skills and ambition match. That is why currently, I'm studying Civil Engineering, minoring in Railroad Transportation, and this summer I'm working an internship at a railroad engineering firm, out of my freshman year in college. For others, they might become auto engineers/mechanics/custom designers for example, following an interest in that industry. Yes, people generally gravitate towards things that move, that's just how it is, nobody seems to really know why.
So when it all comes back to railfan versus foamer, you're going to find a significantly increased amount of "autism" in this hobby. No doubt, many people are "normal", who just happen to have an interest. But you're also going to find the type who probably has some social handicap but an interest beyond even their comprehension. Some of these people are going to fit right in, others will be driven to do bad things in their prusuit, or be "annoying" to many. This can be frustrating to those who are "normal" and don't understand how the thought process works for somebody with Asperger's in particular.
As always in life, the best solution is just to be respectful at all times, even in the face of disrespect. We're all here because we enjoy the hobby. For some it just is, for others it is a product of different mental continuity. That shouldn't change how we treat other people.
So now I'll alight my soap box. If you don't like what I said, if you think Autism and Asperger's is a total sham, then you're probably going to have ongoing issues with members of the hobby, who mean no harm, and just think differently than you!
Not shooting the messenger, that was interesting, but geomodelrailroader is still the first person that I know of to claim that the term FOAMER, has any derogatory conotation towards AUTISTIC people, yep it IS considered a derogatory term to rail fans.
It MAY be used regarding Autistic people, but if it is, I am not familiar with it in that use. when used in a railfan context, I have never heard of any connection to Autism. The word FOAMER, like MANY words, may have multiple meanings, and in the Railfan context, there is no reason for an autistic person to feel that it is being used to belittle their condition.
Unfortunately, Trolls are very common to internet sites, and I am still not convinced that geomodelrailroader is anything more than a Troll, whether he is Autistic or not.
challenger3980Unfortunately, Trolls are very common to internet sites, and I am still not convinced that geomodelrailroader is anything more than a Troll, whether he is Autistic or not.
I've seen folks who take things all too personally. A local woman here is so vehemently opposed to windmills/turbines that she can't be in the same room where they are being discussed. She had to be removed from one such meeting.
I suspect that geomodelrailroader rather falls into that category - he's bought into the idea that the term foamer is specifically derogatory to the autistic. As we've discussed, that's not the case.
There can be no question that there is crossover - those on the spectrum who like trains may be indistiguishable from those who are simply very interested in trains.
Unfortunately, we seem (as a society) to want to categorize everything - kids can't just be kids. They must be ADD, or ADHD, or autistic, or whatever. Rambunctious isn't a medical diagnosis, so we can't prescribe any medications for it. The old cure, a hand to the bottom, is no longer socially acceptable.
I did a search on "foamer" plus "autism" and the only truly related link that came up was this thread. Everything else was either about foamers or autism.
On another forum on which I participate I have known Saturnaila for some time. I havn't always agreed with his posts but given his revalations on this forum have developed ne found respect for him. It takes intestinal fortitude to out one's sel as he did . Alex, I participate on both Michigan railroad forums and have read your posts with interest and wondering where you were coming from. Thanks for the explanation of autism. You taught me much in your post; more than I would have found researching it on line. I've always been one of those who walked to his own drummer, and upon graduating high school spoke with a few teachers who recognized that I was not one who wished to be one of "the crowd". One of them said it was those of us who stood out were the ones he remembered rather than the all A students who filled his memory at graduation.
Alex, all I can offer is get the best education you can in the field of your interest. I personally know a civil engineer who is employed by BNSF. His advice, get educated int the field of your interests, then take it and run with it. I know a signal supervisor with Cn who is a railfan. You may know of whom I speak. The company hired him knowing hs background but acknowledging he gets the job done. I've met tha5at man several times; been to his basement recreation of the C&O in the ninety sixties and can only say he has a mind for detail, current or past.
Alex, Now that I know where youre coming froming, hang in there.
SaturnaliaFirst the "overdiagnosis" debate is hard to quantify. That is, because science and society still aren't quite sure how to treat "mental disorders".
Perhaps this is because we're in a big hurry to find "mental disorders." Just because a person has a strong interest in [name your topic here] and isn't a people person, are they mentally ill? Somewhere on the "spectrum?" If that's the case, we reach the point at which everyone who doesn't think like the editorial "me" must be mentally ill.
"Normal" is what someone determines it to be.
Teachers are seeing this on a regular basis. Parents want the teachers to determine that their rambunctious seven-year-old needs medication. Maybe he just needs a little discipline (and I'm not necessarily talking about physical discipline - maybe junior just needs his Xbox taken away a little earlier each day - or entirely). But it's a lot easier to just pop a pill in the kid than to be an effective parent.
Again - that's not saying that there aren't folks who do suffer from autism - but pretty much all of us know someone who didn't utter a word until they were almost three - but then came out with full sentences (and haven't shut up since). Nowadays, they'd be treated for some mental affliction because they aren't "normal."
There lies the rub.
In a world of 7 Billion people - Normal just isn't normal.
Yes, Larry, there are children who say little until they see a need to. There is the story of the boy who said nothing until he was three or four, and when he did speak, he was asked why he had not spoken before--he said, "I did/t need to."
Fidget Spinners are sold all over Toronto but I have never seen anyone play with one. Not at work, home or play as it says on the package. Not on the subway, in a car, in the check-out line at the supermarket, weddings, funerals, confessional booths, nothing. So what gives? Not to change the subject.
54light15Fidget Spinners are sold all over Toronto but I have never seen anyone play with one.
I have several, including one of the ones with the flashing lights in the 'arms'. My two kids have them and love them. On the other hand, I think this was one of those fads, like Footsie or Clackers, that will be mercifully over as soon as the requisite number of generations of knockoffs and derivative products has been peddled and/or remaindered out on the bargain shelves.
tree68 Saturnalia First the "overdiagnosis" debate is hard to quantify. That is, because science and society still aren't quite sure how to treat "mental disorders". Perhaps this is because we're in a big hurry to find "mental disorders." Just because a person has a strong interest in [name your topic here] and isn't a people person, are they mentally ill? Somewhere on the "spectrum?" If that's the case, we reach the point at which everyone who doesn't think like the editorial "me" must be mentally ill. "Normal" is what someone determines it to be. Teachers are seeing this on a regular basis. Parents want the teachers to determine that their rambunctious seven-year-old needs medication. Maybe he just needs a little discipline (and I'm not necessarily talking about physical discipline - maybe junior just needs his Xbox taken away a little earlier each day - or entirely). But it's a lot easier to just pop a pill in the kid than to be an effective parent. Again - that's not saying that there aren't folks who do suffer from autism - but pretty much all of us know someone who didn't utter a word until they were almost three - but then came out with full sentences (and haven't shut up since). Nowadays, they'd be treated for some mental affliction because they aren't "normal." There lies the rub.
Saturnalia First the "overdiagnosis" debate is hard to quantify. That is, because science and society still aren't quite sure how to treat "mental disorders".
[/quote]
I'm not sure how this got revived. There is a lot of misinformation here and on the internet. Speaking as an experienced professional I will simply mention a few points.
1. We know more about spectrum disorders than before but there is a great deal we do not. I have seen children and adults on various parts of the spectrum and they differ more from each other than they are alike. I have never heard any person with that diagnosis mention the term "foamer" in any context. There is no simple treatment and medication is not generally useful for it.
2. ADHD is better understood. Like the spectrum disorders, it may be mildly overdiagnosed, especially by pediatricians, but this is not because of lack of treatments. Although there is still no single diagnostic test, a combination of tests by an experienced clinician can produce a valid diagnosis. Medication is helpful.
RME 54light15 I have several, including one of the ones with the flashing lights in the 'arms'. My two kids have them and love them. On the other hand, I think this was one of those fads, like Footsie or Clackers, that will be mercifully over as soon as the requisite number of generations of knockoffs and derivative products has been peddled and/or remaindered out on the bargain shelves.
54light15
Thanks, Balt, you're restoring my faith in America: crankin' up the nitrous in an enclosed space as we channel the spirit of Benjamin Silliman Jr.
'
RMEThanks, Balt, you're restoring my faith in America: crankin' up the nitrous in an enclosed space as we channel the spirit of Benjamin Silliman Jr. '
Go big or go bang!
At the end of the day, the word "foamer" is just like any other word. It is only an insult if used as one. It isn't the word which is an insult, the use is.
If I call my railfan friend a foamer, that's a joke. If I were lighting up somebody, obviously attempting to make offense, well then of course you're making it an insult.
And I have never else heard of the word "foamer" being applied to any other category of person other than railfan.
Saturnalia BLS53 schlimm Speaking professionally, I am certain many "foamers" are not on the spectrum. Additionally, I believe the condition is badly overdiagnosed. I agree with it being overdiagnosed. My daughter's a Special Ed teacher, and her classes keep increasing in size. Asperger's Syndrome appears to be the "trendy" one. Speaking for personal experience here, being one who has grown up with Asperger's, having a sibling with it, and knowing several others with it as well, some of whom are also into railroading. Allow me to make a few points. First the "overdiagnosis" debate is hard to quantify. That is, because science and society still aren't quite sure how to treat "mental disorders". The finicky thing is each case is vastly different from person to person. For many, the "disorder" is really just an abnormality, while for others, it is dibilitating. So the question of this is nearly impossible to resolve while this is unsettled. Many are "overdiagnosed", but at the same time the definitions are somewhat loose, and the symptoms of the issue are really over-treatment than the diagnosis (as in the special ed example above). At the end of the day, the steps taken post-diagnosis are the most important. Many end up taking medications for things such as improved focus. Like the "disorder" itself, sometimes it helps, other times people search for years and years, even when there isn't a huge issue. That's just bad parenting and medical care. None of this is to say that there aren't any bad diagnostic cases - but the majority are onto something, generally speaking. Second is the interesting point about Asperger's in particular. Remember here, I've been diagnosed with it for a decade, have grown up through school with it, and it is really the driving force behind my interest in this industry, and is already leading me into the industry as a clear career path. The thing about Asperger's is that it is a spectrum, and really appears, more than probably anything else in the "autsim spectrum" to be more of a different way of thinking than something mentally "wrong". A good way to describe it is being "wired differently" up top, as far as a metaphor for it goes. This sort of thing, as a medical diagnosis, no doubt annoys some because it again isn't like polio or cancer where the diagnosis is "yup, x y and z are the issue, here is how it is fixed or isn't". Truth be told, it is nebulous and the "solution" could be just about anything, on a case-by-case basis. So long story short, Asperger's generally impacts two things: social skills, and acedemic/mental capability. The spectrum starts with increased mental "skill" as far as things such as studying or picking up skills, and comes with some social skill holes, which make these people, especially in school/adolescent years, seem "odd" or "different". But, there are a LOT of very smart people in this part of the spectrum. In fact, many experts believe that many of the "big names" in the STEM fields in particular had Asperger's, with the hallmarks of social weakness yet brilliant minds (think Archimedes, Da Vinci, Edison etc). Essentially, these people generally spend much more time interested or focused on one particualar topic in life (enter trains here), and generally do very well in school or picking up new skills. Farther down the spectrum, this increased acedemic capability trails off as the social issues get worse. This is where it becomes debilitating. Third: So we know it is a real "thing". Again, huge amounts of debate as to whether it is a real "disorder" or is just "different", or where on the spectrum the boundary lies. In either way, many benefit from the use of medication of various forms. And for Asperger's particularly, railroads are often the "one big topic" people pickup on which guides much of what they do from a personal standpoint. It can help them to focus on one particular area of interest. Fourth, for example: Now maybe this is too much information about myself, but for the sake of the discussion, here we go: As I said, I have Asperger's. I'm on the part of the spectrum where I do really really well in school/acedemic settings - many would consider me part of the "gifted student" crowd - a label which is misplaced in many contexts. Great GPA, 99th percentile in most subjects, the ACT, etc. On the flipside I tend to struggle in social settings, most noteably those with unfamiliarity. Generally speaking, once familiar with the people, myself and others like me tend to do alright, but can be very uncertain in new places with new people. For me, the two balance each other out, by and large. So, looping all of this back to why we're here: trains. My "one big topic" is railroads. Since as early as I can remember, it is been a burning interest. Many people are able to turn this "disorder's" burning interest into a career, providied they have the skills and ambition match. That is why currently, I'm studying Civil Engineering, minoring in Railroad Transportation, and this summer I'm working an internship at a railroad engineering firm, out of my freshman year in college. For others, they might become auto engineers/mechanics/custom designers for example, following an interest in that industry. Yes, people generally gravitate towards things that move, that's just how it is, nobody seems to really know why. So when it all comes back to railfan versus foamer, you're going to find a significantly increased amount of "autism" in this hobby. No doubt, many people are "normal", who just happen to have an interest. But you're also going to find the type who probably has some social handicap but an interest beyond even their comprehension. Some of these people are going to fit right in, others will be driven to do bad things in their prusuit, or be "annoying" to many. This can be frustrating to those who are "normal" and don't understand how the thought process works for somebody with Asperger's in particular. As always in life, the best solution is just to be respectful at all times, even in the face of disrespect. We're all here because we enjoy the hobby. For some it just is, for others it is a product of different mental continuity. That shouldn't change how we treat other people. So now I'll alight my soap box. If you don't like what I said, if you think Autism and Asperger's is a total sham, then you're probably going to have ongoing issues with members of the hobby, who mean no harm, and just think differently than you!
Never said it was a total sham. Quite frankly, I wouldn't recognize someone with Asperger's if I happened to meet them. So it would be kind of difficult to discriminate against them, if I have no idea who they are.
Like most of the general public, I have little knowledge of the subject. The only reason I'm somewhat aware of it, is through my daughter who's a Special Ed teacher.
Nevertheless, there appears to be a long legacy of successful individuals, who are now known to have had the disorder. The majority lived in a time before Special Ed existed. So it makes me question as a taxpayer, the value of having such education for affected students today.
Honestly, I think there's a little bit of Asperger's in a bunch of us. I was shy, had manual dexterity issues, and liked trains as a kid. This was in the 1950's and 60's. I might of qualified. But, I outgrew the issues on my own, without any special treatment, as many of my generation did. I don't understand why kids today have to have a label of some sort, and have to be intellectually subsidized to some extent or another.
BLS53I don't understand why kids today have to have a label of some sort, and have to be intellectually subsidized to some extent or another.
They all get a trophy, too....
So much misinformation! If this thread were about modern rail practices, someone (Murphy's Siding, for example) would suggest the railroaders who are experts be deferred to. Apparently this is different since everyone's an expert on mental health and education.
schlimmApparently this is different since everyone's an expert on mental health and education.
I am reminded of the story about some office workers who asked their boss why he was such a stickler regarding relative minor purchases, when he dealt with huge sums of money every day.
He replied, "To tell the truth, millions of dollars is beyond my comprehension. But fifty cents - that I understand!"
Most folks here can understand the physics of railroading, at least in a broad sense. Slack, run-in, HP, grades, etc, etc.
Heck, even a problem with a computer can be understood, at least in basic terms.
Trying to understand a mis-firing brain (for lack of a better description) can be a challenge - especially if each brain in question is mis-firing in a slightly different way. So we form impressions and opinions based on our limited knowledge and experience.
What appears to be mis-information may simply be how a given person understands the issue. It's possible that the autistic person they have dealt with is different than the autistic person someone else has dealt with. Neither is right or wrong.
Too - all of us have experience with education, even if we've never been in the seat of a locomotive. The nature of that educational experience can be wide ranging - and again, it may be right, or it may be wrong.
tree68They all get a trophy, too....
Just remember - it isn't the kids giving themselves the trophies. Blame their parents for that.
tree68Too - all of us have experience with education, even if we've never been in the seat of a locomotive. The nature of that educational experience can be wide ranging - and again, it may be right, or it may be wrong.
I am saying there is expert knowledge on mental health and education, which goes far beyond one's experience of a classroom or a person who has autistic features. The same is true of many fields.
schlimmI am saying there is expert knowledge on mental health and education, which goes far beyond one's experience of a classroom or a person who has autistic features. The same is true of many fields.
Bingo! My point exactly!
tree68No question. But while we have folks here who are well versed in railroading, I'm not so sure we have any similar expertise here regarding mental health. So we're left to our own devices..
You are left to your own devices only if you do not acknowledge that at least one member has 30+ years as a licensed clinical psychologist. Your choice.
schlimmYou are left to your own devices only if you do not acknowledge that at least one member has 30+ years as a licensed clinical psychologist. Your choice.
Well, there you go, then. I'm not sure any of us here knew that, except you and the other person (if it's not you).
tree68 schlimm You are left to your own devices only if you do not acknowledge that at least one member has 30+ years as a licensed clinical psychologist. Your choice. Well, there you go, then. I'm not sure any of us here knew that, except you and the other person (if it's not you).
schlimm You are left to your own devices only if you do not acknowledge that at least one member has 30+ years as a licensed clinical psychologist. Your choice.
I (at least) never stated it so directly, though I did say "--- as a professional" on several threads where it was relevant (consciousness, attention, memory).
schlimm tree68 schlimm You are left to your own devices only if you do not acknowledge that at least one member has 30+ years as a licensed clinical psychologist. Your choice. Well, there you go, then. I'm not sure any of us here knew that, except you and the other person (if it's not you). I (at least) never stated it so directly, though I did say "--- as a professional" on several threads where it was relevant (consciousness, attention, memory).
Well you can put Me at the top of Larry's list of those that didn't know we had a Mental Health Professional on the forum. If you HAD stated so directly, many of us would have given more credence to some of your comments.
I know that Larry(Tree68) volunteers at Adirondack(Spelling?) Scenic as an engineer, and is professionally a Firefighter/Paramedic, because he has stated so directly. Many here on the forums know that I am a Professional Driver, because when I have corrected inaccurate comments about my profession, I will add that I have been driving Tractor/Trailor for more than 28 years/2,500,000+ miles.
If you don't "State it so Directly" Please don't expect all of us to know your occupation and credentials.
I felt your "(consciouness, attention, memory)" line was uncalled for, especially towards someone as respected here on the forum as Larry, when he made such a justified reply.
Just MY thoughts,
Moving America's freight from point "A" to point "B" for over 28 years/2,500,000+ miles.
challenger3980I felt your "(consciouness, attention, memory)" line was uncalled for, especially towards someone as respected here on the forum as Larry, when he made such a justified reply.
You misunderstood. I was referring to threads in which I commented as a professional, not an insult directed at Larry. I never stated my background explicitly because it is not rail-related.
Just for the record, I do remember schlimm mentioning in the last year or two that he was a psychologist.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
A Sunday drive in Kansas, being passed by another competitor and my son.
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Chuck,
I've known for some time you are into racing. Enjoy it to the fullest as long as you are able. Put the "wannabees" into their place and enjoy the rewards of doing so. Never concede defeat. Never give up.
There may not be money involved but trophies on the mantle make for good conversation.
Go for it my friend.
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