Autoracks are good or bad

[Modelcar]

CoertSmit.....Your post of the photo address of the Verta-Pack is the first one I've seen recently...a pretty good one too. I saw many of the real thing when they were being used but that is some years ago. [Even had a Vega for a short time]. From that photo it looks like the capacity might have been 30 vehilces. I hunted over the internet at Google last evening for a photo of a carrier [Verta-Pack], but found none....So can't help where you may find another. Some Auto magazines had articles on them at the time but it would be hard to find the correct one now....
Just a side bar: I worked in an engineering lab [not GM but a powertrain supplier], when the Vega was being developed and we had some with Wankel engines in them along with the Cosworth engined ones.....that did go into production. Of course the Wankel engined versions did not. Late in the cyle we had some that really did look production ready with the Wankel. It simply was killed late in the prototype cycle.

[kenneo]

You folks were talking above about handling these 90 footers, and someone called their damage preventing system "cushioned underframe". That item they do not have. A cushion underframe has a sliding center sill within a fixed center sill. The fixed sill is welded to the car and the sliding center sill moves back and forth within the fixed sill.

Actually, the correct statement is that the car and fixed sill move back and forth on the sliding sill, which remains fixed, relative to the train, while the car moves. I won't try to explain that any more unless someone wants.

Auto Racks and Multies (and all cars built in the last 10 or more years) use end of car cushioning. Imagine a moving drawbar pushing against a big spring which pushes against the end of the center sill, and you have a basic idea of how this device works. In addition to the spring, there are hydrolic cylinders and other such stuff.

So, when the train gets pushed, the end of car device must compress all the way before the car starts moving, and when the pressure is removed, the drawbar shoots back out like a cannon shot.

The sliding center sill operated like an old style train that had no cushioning, as far as the engineer was concerned, but the car, each car independently of each other, would move back and forth on the center sill. No cannon shots and not undesired movement of the cut of cars - just one car. They don't make these cars any more because they cost more to maintain than end of car units.

[louisnash]

I saw on a website somewhere, can't remember where, that all the vehicles had been burned. Seems as though there were more than one. This was on one of the old open type auto-racks. So being just old enough to remember those, I guess that vandalism was regular for those type.

I do agree on their loudness, though. But that makes railfanning that more interesting.

Brian (KY)

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

What's the deal with these VetraPak's then, are they still used?

No. All have been cut up or rebuilt into something else.

Problem with the cars was that the automobile, sitting verticle on its nose, would drain all of its vital fluids out into the Vertapak. Real messy and a big fire hazard. The solution was special seals in the Vegas. Now this was not such a big deal (not small, but not a show stopper) for new design, but was incredibly expensive for existing vehicles. Besides, sitting a vehicle on its nose limits how long the vehicle can be, and only "compact cars and trucks" of the Vega's size could be accomodated.

Short answer, --- not economically viable. And neither was the Vega

[Anonymous]

What's the deal with these VetraPak's then, are they still used?

[Anonymous]

Those Verta-paks got me interested. So I started searching for pictures. So far this is the only reasonable photo I've found: http://abpr.railfan.net/december02/12-03-02/SP_VERTAPAK.jpg Can anybody provide me with one or more photo's on which these are being loaded, or just standing with their doors open waiting to be loaded.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Your correct on the vandalism feature....Does anyone remember when some vehicles were shipped in special enclosed rail cars and the vehicles were shipped verticle...standing on their nose or back end...don't remember which...but believe it was their nose. The sides of the rail cars opened down like a ramp and the vehicles were removed. Vehicles were Chevrolet Vegas.

The cars were called 'Verta-Paks'...the doors opened out to the side of the rail car and the automobile was driven onto the rail car door and secured to it. Then the door was closed and that automobile was inside the rail car in a nose down (ibelieve) attitude. I may be wrong but I thing the capacity of the Verta-Paks was 24 Chevy Vegas. The GM Plant at Lordstown, Ohio was constructed on a crash, spare no expense, spare no overtime basis to assemble the Vega's. The Vega was GM's emergency replacement for the Chevrolet Corvair after Ralph Nader trashed the cars reputation and built his own name. As I recollect, the freight bill for a loaded Verta-Pak from Lordstown to the West Coast was almost $9000 in the early 70's.

[heavyd]

The only thing I don't like about autoracks is that name - autorack. When I worked for CP they called them "multies", some people didn't know what I was talking about when I used the word "autorack". I soon learned not to use the name autorack as it is used mostly by railfans. I guess only railroad and railroaders use the term "multi" Anybody else heard of this?

[Modelcar]

...Your correct on the vandalism feature....Does anyone remember when some vehicles were shipped in special enclosed rail cars and the vehicles were shipped verticle...standing on their nose or back end...don't remember which...but believe it was their nose. The sides of the rail cars opened down like a ramp and the vehicles were removed. Vehicles were Chevrolet Vegas.

[Anonymous]

When did the covered autoracks first start making an appearance?

I remember seeing old pictures where the cars were loaded on just like the car-transport trucks, open to the elements?

I would assume it was because of vandalism.

Anyone know when they first started, and with what railway?

[TH&B]

Good or bad? All I can say is there are too damn many of them around, and they take up alot of space. To bad the railroad can't think of any other loose car traffic to generate in such volumes. New autos aren't the only thing the the world that needs to be hauled you know.

[edblysard]

Not all that fond of switching with them, I try to cut them out whenever I can.
But sometimes you cant do that, so you end up with a nervous engineer, a lot of droped pins, and slack action that beats you to death.
Loaded, they behave, sorta.
Empty, the silly things get real twitchy real quick.
You cant kick them to a joint, even if the rules did allowed you to, the drawbar always flops over to one side, and you get a bypass.
If your real lucky, the drawbar stays straight, but the excessive hydra cushion under frames send em right back at you, when you least expect them to move, they just jump back.
Makes for messy switching.

Now in winter, I dont mind a big cut of them in the track next to where I work, they make a great wind break.

Willy, the big banging sound you hear is the drawbar bottoming out in the drawbar head/cushion frame, these things have a lot, and I mean a lot of sideways play to allow them to handle tight curves, and extra long drawbars, which compress all the way back against the end sill, when you use just the locomotive brakes to slow down or stop, these things bunch up hard, sounds like they are running into each other, which is exactlly what they are doing.
A good engineer will keep them stretched out some...

Ed

[Anonymous]

Auto racks make great wind breaks. When the local GM Assembly plant went "off line" for the new year model change, these cars had to go somewhere. UPRR had auto racks stored on over 9 MILES of rail line to our town. I did not count the line cars but would estimate it to be over 500 cars long!!!

[mudchicken]

Willy, if autoracks are real loud then what say you about a string of empty grain hoppers? A cut of autorack cars was often referred to as a "portable wall" when stored in a yard or backtrack because you cannot see around or get around them easily.

[Willy2]

I could do without autoracks. Primarily because almost every time I see an autorack train, the cars bang real loud and about scare me out of my skin!

Willy

[mudchicken]

Autoracks today are basically TOFC 89 foot pig flats with a structural addition.(there are JTTX flats out there in service today that are cut down from auto racks)... In their normal environment, they are no less trouble than anything else out there. Like any long car ,they do not track well and are subject to long car/ short car lateral derailments in sharp curves due to coupler forces. When autoracks get shoved into tracks that were designed for 40 ft. boxcars, troubles multiply. (This happens a little more often than you think, especially after buildings and other fixed improvements hem alignments in.)

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[Modelcar]

....Just look at the window sticker of a new car and check the "Distination Charge" and see the amount of money someone is getting to transport that auto to market. Each rail car has quite a few vehicles in it so the freight charges should be pretty lucrative. I suppose the rail charge would not be the total on that sticker but a good chunk of it.

[JoeKoh]

Just one little tidbit the auto rack was empty too.
stay safe
Joe

[BaltACD]

All types of cars have failures....Door problems on Auto-racks are not a high frequency problem.

In years gone by the railroads hauled most of the parts that were used to manufacture autos. For a variety of reasons the parts business has dwindled to just a trickle of its former volumes, however the shipment and distribution of finished autos has blossomed. No totally familar with the level of freight rates, however I do believe the shipment of finished autos brings in more revenue than the shipment of parts did.

[Modelcar]

....Just an observation....I believe we all realize the railroads must make a large amount of money from carrying autos, vans and trucks all over this country. I'm sure they would like to hang on to that business. If problems exist surely it can be overcome. The railroads transporting all those vehicles sure takes a bunch of semi's [car haulers], off the interstates.

[JoeKoh]

Today Matt and I saw a train stopped because a door flew open on a autorack.The Csx crew had to set the car on a siding and go back to take the rest of the train to toledo.Ive heard they cause problems in yards and break couplers on curves. So would you rather have or have not a train of autoracks?
just asking
stay safe
Joe and Matt
(matt did wave to mrs engineer[:)])