UPs Double desel Alcos

[traingeek087]

What was the name of UPs double desel Alcos?

[UPTRAIN]

Me and traingeek were discussing this on msn...I too am interested in this topic..help us out...we need some photos too!!!! [:D] Thanks yall!!!

[UPTRAIN]

Well we found it....... http://www.worldrailfans.org/Articles/US/DoubleDiesels.shtml weird looking locos.........look at the U50C....had big radiators...a sign of things to come...I only we had known..............[:D]

[UPTRAIN]

By the way...it was a C855.......this jut in..........another photo................ http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_up61.jpg .................notice how it dwarfs the Geep that it is coupled to...looks like HO hooked to N scale. Railpac.........can you add to this?

[traingeek087]

Heres a site for you N scale fans out there. http://home.comcast.net/~jimngage/

[UPTRAIN]

I'm post this on the MR forum too.

[traingeek087]

if anyone else is interested in double diesels, I can get you some photos I found on the internet.

[espeefoamer]

Talking about double diesels, I saw a train once with only two units, a Centenial, and a GP9.[:D] Really,a strange looking combo!

[Anonymous]

I can see they are huge, but what exactly is a double diesel?

Two engines?

[jchnhtfd]

Two engines, two alternators or generators, two sets of controls...

two headaches.

Of course, the E units had two engines and generators, too -- but were quite reliable (and it was possible to shut one down and work on it underway, too!)

[Anonymous]

Two sets of controls?

That sounds like a pain in the ***, you think they would have been able to link them up.

[mudchicken]

Only one set of controls, 1 control stand...

2- 12 cylinder 251 engines sitting on top of two sets of AAR "B" trucks on span bolsters (8 axles, 5500 HP, 2 "A" and 1 "B" unit built.... Road #'s 60, 60A and 61 ...built in 1964 and the monsters survived only 6 years because they were oddball unique........(U50 &U50C were the GE attempt(s) of 1965 and 1969 respectively with a face only a mother could love...

UP never owned DL-109's, Alco's version of an E-unit...

Wonder what Baldwin 6000 (2-D+D-2) of 1943, 8-8 cylinder engines on a centipede frame would have done if UP had actually bought some of these 6000 HP, 12 motored axle monsters?

[kenneo]

Mudchicken

Strange that you should make such supposition about the UP.

The BLW 6000, (model 4-8-8-4 750/8 DE) of which only the demonstrator was built was a real multi-engine locomotive. It was powered by 8 750 HP type 408V8 (750 HP VO's) motors producing 6000 HP. The unit demoed on the B&O and RDG and then went back to Eddystone in 1945, where it was dismantled.

UP had order similar units, but with 3000 HP. Baldwin stripped the 6000 HP unit to the frame, put a pair of 608SC engines (production S/N's 1 and 2) in it with new body work. During, or shortly prior to, painting, the UP cancelled their order and the SAL bought the first production units.

These SAL units, however, were new production, and the rebuilt demonstrator and a twin demonstrated around the country for a while. Thus was born the Babyfaced Centipede. The demonstrators, BLW 6000A and BLW 6000B returned to Eddystone in early 1948 and were cut up in 1952.

I have no idea why UP cancelled the Baldwin order. But the conventional wisdom that fewer motors is more reliable (it ain't necessarily so) gets put to a bit of a test here. The FT, which was almost always order in sets of A-B-B-A at 1350 HP per unit equals 5400 HP, and the F7 four unit set is 6000 HP. Now that's four units to BLW's one. And Baldwin had the 608 about to come out of testing, the 6 cyln. version put out 1200 HPand the 8 cyl put out 1500 HP. Two model DR-12-8-3000's could replace a Big Boy instead of the platoon of F's.

Remains a "what-if" but in fact, it almost did come to pass!

[kenneo]

ALCO, GE and EMD all tried to do the ultra high HP thing.

EMP had the Centenials in two different models.

GE had the U50D (same sheet metal (almost) as the ALCO units) and the U50C. I know of only 6 U50D's build - 3 for UP and 3 for SP (2 A units and 1 B unit each).
UP purchased a bunch of U50C's, but made an oops by using both aluminum and copper wire on them and the aluminum kept causing fires. So, since they were too expensive to rebuild, they cut them up. The trucks used under them came from the 8500 HP turbins.

ALCO also made 6 5500 HP motors, 3 for the UP and 3 for the SP. Model C855 (C = Century). Two sets of A-B-A.

Both the U50D and the C855 rode on span bolsters B-B+B-B. The Century units had an articulated truck that "bent" in the curves. A real nightmare to rerail.

As a side note, ALCO had a single motor 6 axel unit available at the same time - available in either DC or Hydrolic. SP purchased 3 C643H's but no DC transmissions (C643) were built.

And if it weren't for bad spelling I couldn't spell at all.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Mudchicken

The BLW 6000, (model 4-8-8-4 750/8 DE) of which only the demonstrator was built was a real multi-engine locomotive. It was powered by 8 750 HP type 408V8 (750 HP VO's) motors producing 6000 HP. The unit demoed on the B&O and RDG and then went back to Eddystone in 1945, where it was dismantled.

The BLW 6000 was designed for 8 but only a maximum of 4 diesel was installed!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo



EMP had the Centenials in two different models.

Two Centennial models? The only one was the DDA40X. A DD35 isn´t a CENTENNIAL!

QUOTE: GE had the U50D (same sheet metal (almost) as the ALCO units) and the U50C. I know of only 6 U50D's build - 3 for UP and 3 for SP (2 A units and 1 B unit each).

U50 - The D is nonofficial because a D stands for a fouraxle truck! - 23 built for the UP and 3 more for SP!
Only cabunits!
Same sheetmetal as the Alcos - NO!!!! The Alco was unique in many ways! And U50´s - both versions - busstil nose is also unique!

QUOTE: ALCO also made 6 5500 HP motors, 3 for the UP and 3 for the SP. Model C855 (C = Century). Two sets of A-B-A.

Only the three C855 for UP were built! A-B-A Set

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Talking about double diesels, I saw a train once with only two units, a Centenial, and a GP9.[:D] Really,a strange looking combo!

In the good years - mid 1970´s - the standard combo at Sherman Hill was a fast SD40-2 sandwiched between two Centennials!

[M636C]

Guys,

The Century 643-H was a twin engine locomotive very similar to the Century 855. The 643-H cab was very similar, but the nose did not have the lifting rings of the UP units. The 643-H had two twelve cylinder engines, while the 855 had two sixteen cylinder engines. The German Voith Hydraulic transmissions were limited to 2150HP each, so the total power was only 4300 HP.

The engines faced the other way, driving the transmissions located inside the fuel tank space which was shaped like a "U". Driveshafts from the transmissions ran to the gearboxes on the trucks, which were similar to the trucks on C628s but arranged facing the opposite way. The radiators were in the centre, like the C855, but were a Voith design including cooling for the transmission and the hydrodynamic brakes.

This is off-topic, because SP didn't belong to UP at the time.

Peter

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Corrections on the double diesel roster:

DD35A: UP 70-84 (15)
DD35B: UP 72B-98B (27)
SP 9900-9902 (3)
DDA40X: UP 6900-6946 (47)
U50: UP 31-53 (23)
SP 9950-9952 (3)
U50C: UP 5000-5039 (40)
C855A: UP 60-61 (2)
C855B: UP 60B
Speculation about UP Centipedes is interesting but I would think that UP cancelled its order when it heard about the high maintenance requirements of PRR's Centipedes.

[jchnhtfd]

Mudchicken -- blame it on jet lag. One set of controls for the engineer! Sorry about that... but a question: were the two engine-generator-traction motor sets isolated from each other? (could easily be run as an MU set only on a single chassis), or did both engine-generator sets feed a common power buss which then fed the traction motors? I've never known...

[Anonymous]

Canadian Pacific experimented with the DD-35 some time in the 60,s or
70,s.I never saw them as saw plenty of C class alco,s on CN rail as grew up
in Brookville and later CP RAIL as moved in the city of Saint John.I got audio
tapes of DD UP and SP under tonnage.I always am amamazzed by the
big Diesles but recall as a boy a MLW RS-10 of CN Rail hauling 118 cars to
brookville where picked up a additional twenty cars from the lime mills.she
was moving at a record breaking speed of five miles of hour as traveled from
Moncton to Saint John.

Stay green stay safe

David Brown

[traingeek087]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

ALCO, GE and EMD all tried to do the ultra high HP thing.

EMP had the Centenials in two different models.

GE had the U50D (same sheet metal (almost) as the ALCO units) and the U50C. I know of only 6 U50D's build - 3 for UP and 3 for SP (2 A units and 1 B unit each).
UP purchased a bunch of U50C's, but made an oops by using both aluminum and copper wire on them and the aluminum kept causing fires. So, since they were too expensive to rebuild, they cut them up. The trucks used under them came from the 8500 HP turbins.

ALCO also made 6 5500 HP motors, 3 for the UP and 3 for the SP. Model C855 (C = Century). Two sets of A-B-A.

Both the U50D and the C855 rode on span bolsters B-B+B-B. The Century units had an articulated truck that "bent" in the curves. A real nightmare to rerail.

As a side note, ALCO had a single motor 6 axel unit available at the same time - available in either DC or Hydrolic. SP purchased 3 C643H's but no DC transmissions (C643) were built.

And if it weren't for bad spelling I couldn't spell at all.

The 3 SP ones came from UP.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bigboy4015

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Mudchicken

The BLW 6000, (model 4-8-8-4 750/8 DE) of which only the demonstrator was built was a real multi-engine locomotive. It was powered by 8 750 HP type 408V8 (750 HP VO's) motors producing 6000 HP. The unit demoed on the B&O and RDG and then went back to Eddystone in 1945, where it was dismantled.

The BLW 6000 was designed for 8 but only a maximum of 4 diesel was installed!!!

There were THREE BLW 6000's. The original with 8 750HP VO's, (6000); the second, with 4 750HP VO's, (6000A) which was reengined with two 608SC's; the third was built with two 608SC's (6000B).

[M636C]

jchnhtfd,

The DD35s were always described as "two GP35s on a single frame", so I strongly suspect that that's what they were, in MU as you say.

The GP35 generator, a version of the D32, was absolutely flat out finding the power to drive four motors, and there is just no way it would drive eight. So I believe that the two "units" were independent. That would have allowed EMD to use standard components, except for the loco frame and the truck frames.

But I believe the three SP DD35s, and the three U50s were bought new.

The only double engined road units to change hands were the Rio Grande Krauss-Maffeis that went to SP.

Peter