$1.3 billion to Amtrak is OK, but $21 million to upgrade station??

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

The link above is the NC DOT's 2009 Rail Plan Executive Summary, 15 pages, 1.65 MB.  Interesting document, very detailed and foward-looking.  Nice photos, too.

[Phoebe Vet]

 

http://www.bytrain.org/quicklinks/reports/2009_railplanexecsum.pdf

 

 

[matthewsaggie]

One of CATS/NCDOT's primary stimulis projects will be the grade separation of the NS and the CSX along with the start on the track work needed for the station. The current at grade crossing is just north of the future station location.  The local MPO will vote on this tomorrow night- one of the necessary steps in the process for the funding.

[blue streak 1]

Phoebe Vet

Take Charlotte off your list.Charlotte is in the process of building a new multimodal facility in center city

Actually I was aware of the new Charlotte station. I can remember the old wooden one that was split by some road. Has construction started yet and can some stimulus money speed it up? I just felt that the neuvo 1980s station was an example.

[DSO17]

Murphy Siding

Poppa_Zit

 My point was $21 million to one station (coincidently, I'm sure, the one used by the new VP) in a bill that was supposed to create jobs and kick-start the economy. I thought they were trying to create long-term jobs, not positions that will disappear in a year or two. Then what?

      Think of this  as a $21 million  investment in infrastructure.  Would spending $21 million on overdue bridge repairs in Wilmington cause you to have the same feelings?  In the context of what contruction costs, this is very inexpensive compared to what building something new would cost.  In fact, $21 million is probably not much more than repair and tune-up of an existing facility.

     Actually the three tracks go right through the second story of the station on a series of bridges, so the money will be both for the building and the bridges, with all the drainage problems that entails. In years past it was quite an experience to be down in the station when a pair of GG-1s went through with a freight train.

[Anonymous]

tomikawaTT

 

When the government and the private sector begin to compete for a limited pool of skilled workers, all three groups suffer.

Chuck

When the government takes money out of the pockets of skilled workers to pay them for jobs doing things that are extravagant and unnecessary, the private sector and its skilled workers suffer, and the government class grows fatter.

[Awesome!]

Anything $$ that Amtrak could get is better than "0".

[tomikawaTT]

Poppa, one of the purposes of the stimulus package IS to create jobs, especially in construction, that will put money in the pockets of laid-off workers until the economy recovers enough for them to go back to work in their former trades or professions - hopefully in two years or less.

It isn't necessary, or even desirable, to make those jobs longer-term - unless you think having a new stimulus package or two every year for the next four (or eight) years is a good idea.

When the government and the private sector begin to compete for a limited pool of skilled workers, all three groups suffer.

Chuck

[Phoebe Vet]

Bluestreak:

Take Charlotte off your list.Charlotte is in the process of building a new multimodal facility in center city.  It is not related to the stimulous package.

It will house Amtrak, Greyhound, Lynx commuter rail, CATS Street Cars, CATS city buses, and rental car facilities.

 

[Murphy Siding]

Poppa_Zit

 My point was $21 million to one station (coincidently, I'm sure, the one used by the new VP) in a bill that was supposed to create jobs and kick-start the economy. I thought they were trying to create long-term jobs, not positions that will disappear in a year or two. Then what?

      Think of this  as a $21 million  investment in infrastructure.  Would spending $21 million on overdue bridge repairs in Wilmington cause you to have the same feelings?  In the context of what contruction costs, this is very inexpensive compared to what building something new would cost.  In fact, $21 million is probably not much more than repair and tune-up of an existing facility.

[blue streak 1]

jeaton

Amtrak identifies a need to acquire 60 new electric locomotives for the NEC Regionals. 

The question is: Will these electric motors allow the removal of all standby Diesel power for the NEC at Harrisburg, PHL, WASH, Sunnyside, (maybe Wilmington & Providence), NH & BOS. Anyone know the present number of Diesels that are placed on standby at these and any other locations? 

Of course I believe they should be kept there in case of major electrical failure but they could be older units and 1st line locos transferred out.

[Poppa_Zit]

blue streak 1

Have never stopped at Wilmiington station but I've seen many stations that have been left to deterioriate. Instead of using a small amount of funds the usual way is to let the facility go to pot and the weather gets in then there are major repairs required. Weather is the death of any building especially if part is unheated in the north.

Some of the stations I've seen deteroiated are BOS both North and South - they are much better now. New Haven, GCT much better, NYP, Newark - needs work,30th street - better, Baltimore - grungy, WASH - Bi centenial UGH, Richmond main st. - holding my breath Broak St. - would like to see it reused, Charlottesville - Hope its better, Greensboro - what a shame haven't seen restoration, Charlotte - New one built then nothing ever done, Atlanta - fair, Birmingtham - L&N let go to seed, Meredian - Great uppgrade, New Orleans, - Still not recovered fromo Katrina, Orlando - downhill but ACL built a sturdy station, Chicago US - another recovered from going downhill, SAT - nighttime hides alot, Tuscon - last tiime saw was covered in tarps, Phoenix - maybe someday, El Paso - Bus station saved it but it is way oversized and bet a drain on AMTRAK finances, Minneapolis - Neuvo AMTRAK going downhill, Denver - Thought it was a goner now great, Salt Lake City - another night timer, as well as Spokane, San Diego - Preservationist heaven, LAX - from earthquake prone shut off areas to great for metrolink and AMTRAK bright and roomy, San Jose - Needs brightening up, Oakland - Shame old SP station could not be saved from earthquake damage, Emeryville - Neuvo modern but right size, Portland Or - Great station needs work, Seattle King street - Cried many years over the BN's lack of work and haven't seen restoration work, Seattle - Union Station (UP MLK) - Have often wondered if it will be needed because of all the traffic to King St as it is across the street. was in better condition especially after the earthquake.

As you describe, there are hundreds of deteriorating railroad stations that could use an update. My point was $21 million to one station (coincidently, I'm sure, the one used by the new VP) in a bill that was supposed to create jobs and kick-start the economy. I thought they were trying to create long-term jobs, not positions that will disappear in a year or two. Then what?

By the way, the Works Progress/Projects Administration was the reincarnation under Roosevelt of Hoover's Reconstruction Finance Corporation (1932) formed to create jobs during the Great Depression. Yes, the WPA provided jobs and income to the unemployed during the Depression, which saw  unemployment rates around 25 percent. Between 1935 and 1943 the WPA provided almost 8 million jobs. The program built many public buildings, projects and roads and operated large arts, drama, media and literacy projects -- and a lot of projects that were totally unnecessary. It fed children and redistributed food, clothing and housing. But the Depression that began in 1930 didn't end until the U.S. entered WWII in 1941 -- almost 10 years after the WPA programs began.

[jeaton]

In its FY 2010 Grant Request letter to Congress, Amtrak identifies a need to acquire 60 new electric locomotives for the NEC Regionals.  The cost for the same is said to be about $540 million.  Funding for the locomotives is not included in the request, rather the locomotives are included in a list with cars of various types that Amtrak believes will need to be acquired in the near future.

I have not seen any indication that either stimulus or other appropriated funds are marked for new locomotive acquisitions. 

[Modelcar]

.....And now with Amtrak preparing to refurbish, rebuild about 70 to 80 passenger cars....{Amtrak, Beech Grove, In.}, that would go a ways to allow Amtrak to supply cars where the shortage exists.  And possibly add some new routes.

Power....I don't know.  Haven't seen anything written about {Stimulus money}, perhaps purchasing new power for Amtrak also. 

Anyone heard anything on that.....?

[Jack_S]

 "While more than 28 million passengers ride Amtrak every year, most of those are on the Northeast Corridor rail system that runs from Washington to Boston."

 This is certainly true.  However, it is also true that Amtrak California is running a lot of trains with standing room only on the Surfliner routes between Santa Barbara and San Diego.  The main problem is the lack of appropriate rolling stock.  They have a string of old Amfleet cars acquired (leased?) from NJ Transit sitting at LA Union Station waiting to be modified to work with the existing engines.  These cars are high single level cars with no bathrooms and manually opened doors.  And that is the best they can do to meet the demand for rail travel in SoCal.

Jack

 

[blue streak 1]

Have never stopped at Wilmiington station but I've seen many stations that have been left to deterioriate. Instead of using a small amount of funds the usual way is to let the facility go to pot and the weather gets in then there are major repairs required. Weather is the death of any building especially if part is unheated in the north.

Some of the stations I've seen deteroiated are BOS both North and South - they are much better now. New Haven, GCT much better, NYP, Newark - needs work,30th street - better, Baltimore - grungy, WASH - Bi centenial UGH, Richmond main st. - holding my breath Broak St. - would like to see it reused, Charlottesville - Hope its better, Greensboro - what a shame haven't seen restoration, Charlotte - New one built then nothing ever done, Atlanta - fair, Birmingtham - L&N let go to seed, Meredian - Great uppgrade, New Orleans, - Still not recovered fromo Katrina, Orlando - downhill but ACL built a sturdy station, Chicago US - another recovered from going downhill, SAT - nighttime hides alot, Tuscon - last tiime saw was covered in tarps, Phoenix - maybe someday, El Paso - Bus station saved it but it is way oversized and bet a drain on AMTRAK finances, Minneapolis - Neuvo AMTRAK going downhill, Denver - Thought it was a goner now great, Salt Lake City - another night timer, as well as Spokane, San Diego - Preservationist heaven, LAX - from earthquake prone shut off areas to great for metrolink and AMTRAK bright and roomy, San Jose - Needs brightening up, Oakland - Shame old SP station could not be saved from earthquake damage, Emeryville - Neuvo modern but right size, Portland Or - Great station needs work, Seattle King street - Cried many years over the BN's lack of work and haven't seen restoration work, Seattle - Union Station (UP MLK) - Have often wondered if it will be needed because of all the traffic to King St as it is across the street. was in better condition especially after the earthquake.

[CShaveRR]

Here are some details, shamelessly lifted from Trainorders.com:

Restoration of the Wilmington, Delaware station - $21 million. With $21 million in Recovery Act funding, plus additional funding from the State of Delaware and other sources, Amtrak will make restorations to Wilmington, Delaware’s historic century-old Victorian train station. The project will incorporate the rebuilding and restoration of the interior of the station buildings, improvements to make the buildings entirely accessible for those with disabilities, restoration of the building's terracotta façade, and the replacement of the track and supporting infrastructure which runs through the station. In addition to increasing comfort and convenience for passengers using Amtrak’s eleventh busiest station, the project includes the construction of a third high-level platform, which will significantly increase the capacity of the station. Amtrak estimates that the project will result in 168 person-years of work for those directly employed in the restoration of the station.

[egmurphy]

Delaware depends on the train system since it is the only state that does not have commercial air service.

It's the only state not big enough to accomodate a landing strip.

 

[CShaveRR]

From what I remember of my last trip through Wilmington (about four years ago), that station was pretty dingy-looking. It could be argued that that isn't enough of a reason to spend money on it (even if it is where Joe Biden gets on and off!). But it could be justified if the money:

--Facilitates passage of the trains through the station, possibly including upgrades to trackwork and/or catenary.

--Improves the flow of passengers (have they said anything about our station yet?), again including parking and/or transit connections.

--Repairs structural deterioration that would cause more expense further down the road.

--Provide for handling of anticipated increased demand.

I don't think $21 mil will make a Taj Mahal out of this place.

[Modelcar]

.....I'm pleased we are finally beginning to rebuiild transportation infrastructure in our own country......We've done our share in other parts of the world for decades now.....We can't do both continously.

The Stimulus package of course spends money intended to revitalize our work force and this will build and rebuild structures for our benefit.  This was done in the 30's....Roads, Parks, sewer systems, water systems, schools, bridges and so on and we've been the beneficiaries for years from that effort.

[PNWRMNM]

Poppa,

Fear not,  it will cost twice as much before they are done, maybe three.

Fear much when the Chineese stop buying our soon to be worthless debt.

 Mac

[TomDiehl]

Poppa_Zit

At a time when White House officials, including the vice president, criticized Congress for inserting earmarks into the stimulus package, Biden's home state of Delaware will receive $21 million to update a historic train station in Wilmington. Delaware depends on the train system since it is the only state that does not have commercial air service.

Wilmington, Delaware is the 11th busiest station on the Amtrak System, plus it provides connection to SEPTA and DART trains.

The statement "update a historic train station" is a bit light on what is planned. Nothing there to talk about.

[Poppa_Zit]

(Emphasis mine)

Vice President Biden, a longtime Amtrak rider and supporter, announced Friday the nation's rails would start running better with $1.3 billion worth of help from the economic stimulus package.

Amtrak, which uses federal subsidies to cover 41 percent of its expenses, will receive the money as part of the $787 billion bill passed last month.

Biden strongly defended the federal subsidies that are supplied to Amtrak, saying he was "tired of apologizing for help for Amtrak. Amtrak has not been at the trough. Amtrak has been left out, far too long, in my opinion."

The 2008 federal subsidy for Amtrak was $1.3 billion, which angered many congressional conservatives who felt the rail system was inefficient, and some of it's little used routes should be discontinued. While more than 28 million passengers ride Amtrak every year, most of those are on the Northeast Corridor rail system that runs from Washington to Boston.

In its fiscal 2009 budget request, the Bush administration proposed cutting $500 million from Amtrak's budget, saying it "continues to hemorrhage taxpayer funds," and that was better than previous Bush proposals, which wanted to completely eliminate federal subsidies for the ailing rail system.

At a time when White House officials, including the vice president, criticized Congress for inserting earmarks into the stimulus package, Biden's home state of Delaware will receive $21 million to update a historic train station in Wilmington. Delaware depends on the train system since it is the only state that does not have commercial air service.

Other rail items to receive funding include $82 million in repair work to about 70 passenger cars that will be put back into circulation, $10 million for construction of a new auto train station in Sanford, Fla., and, by far the largest Amtrak project, $105 million to replace a drawbridge over a river on the Northeast Corridor in Connecticut.

For 36 years Biden commuted almost daily from his home in Wilmington, Del., to his Senate office on Capitol Hill. Upon being elected vice president, his Amtrak bonus points have dropped.

Biden prides himself on knowing the names of conductors and fellow passengers and says this needed cash will not only provide relief for Amtrak but for workers around the country who will be hired to assist on rehabilitation projects.

Biden says the rail system needs more than $5 billion in investments, but for now Amtrak is finding ways to spend its $1.3 billion. Rep. Nick Rahall, D-W. Va., summed it up for the rail friendly crowd: "For Amtrak and President Obama, Joe Biden has proven to be just the right ticket."