tree68 NYS&W is running some old tunnel motors. Not sure they have any active ALCOs now.
NYS&W is running some old tunnel motors. Not sure they have any active ALCOs now.
Too bad I liked them.
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I remember being on the Erie Mining RR on a fantrip a few years ago. That 2% grade down to the ore dock felt like going down a slide at the amusement park...and the climb back up was pretty rough!! Ironically the two F units (EMCO F9 and SOO FP-7) ran great, but the DMIR SD-18 between them died and had to be dragged up the hill with all the cars.
jep1267 Justin, I'm not sure what a centry series is but the "Susie-Q" engines that go by resemble C420 models I've seen that Atlas offers in HO. Now Conrail and Norfolk Southern engines (MU'ed together no less) come by every once in a while using what appears (to my untrained eye) to be Dash 8s or AC4400s J.P.
Justin, I'm not sure what a centry series is but the "Susie-Q" engines that go by resemble C420 models I've seen that Atlas offers in HO. Now Conrail and Norfolk Southern engines (MU'ed together no less) come by every once in a while using what appears (to my untrained eye) to be Dash 8s or AC4400s
J.P.
C420 - "C" stands for "Century" series made in the sixties by American Locomotive Co....
Yeah, the Susie-Qs days of glory are over, once NS and CSX took all the intermodal trains over to their own rails. They run a road freight several times a week , but it isn't always on a regular schedule. The Alcos were great to see, but I last heard they were out of service, the main stable of power being the tunnel motors. They actually own two SD70s, which are long since off their rails and in a long term lease elsewhere. And of course, lets not forget 142, the steam locomotive which I believe is still running on the old Bel-Del by Phillipsburg.
Occasionally CSX will use the NYS&W to bypss the River Line, they connect at Little Ferry. I don't know if they have done it lately though. And you are right, there is a group that runs speeders occasionally, might be what you saw.
Yeah, now that you mention it I guess it IS hard to perceve a 1% grade. They turned the Caldwell branch of the Erie Lackawanna into a trail that I would ride my mountain bike on. While walking the line it appeared to be flat but between Overbrook and the tressel that crossed Rt23 I could hit speeds of 20 mph going north but when going south its a struggle to do a constant 10 mph. I have a "computer" (Not an AS400 or anything LOL) on my bike for those wondering how i knew my speed
Trainfan, Thanks for the info I was unaware of that being a main. You're right daytime running is VERY infrequint and when it happens I usually hear it too late to get to track and shoot some photos. I tried keeping a "journal" but there seems no ryhme or reason to when they come by during the day...even the night time action is somewhat spotty. I will say that one sunday a group of speeders went zipping by that was pretty cool. I guess a a speeder enthusiest group was having a day on the tracks.
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Well not all of these locmotives may be running at once. some of them may be shut down. The train could be havier than you think. Thus the train would need more locomotives. A new locomotive is VERY VERY expensive and the economey the way it is now not many railroads are going to be buying a new locomotive(s). Besides the NYS&W still uses the old Alco Century series don't thay? Who would want a vacume claener (GEVO) burbaling down that fine strstch of steel? I would think that running a MU consist with a short train would suck fuel, but trains are the most efficent form of land trasportation anyway. Pulling a train with more locomotives than you need, runnung or not, would waste fuel. Are these the same locmotives that alway's pull this train? If not maby some of them would be comming from a overhaul. What kind of loco's are thay? Are thay Alco Centuries? I like tha Century! Hope this is helpfull.
Visually, grades of 1 or 2 percent, do not appear signifigant to people that are more accustomed to the grades we experience in automobiles where 5 to 10 percent are commonplace and even steeper grades are not that unusual.
In railroading 1 & 2 percent grades are very signifigant impediments to moving tonnage. The eye has trouble perceiving a 1 percent or less grade. Greater than 1 percent grade can be seen but are easy to discount.....until you are in the near proximity of a tonnage train trying to climb the grade with all it's might, engines roaring, traction motors pulling maximum amps and holding speed at the locomotives minimum continuous speed (9 to 12 MPH on most locos.).
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You aren't on a branch, you are on the main line. The grade begins at Hawthorne and goes for awhile over Sparta Mountain. I was on an excursion once that got quite a way up then had to back all the way down to Hawthorne Jct. for a bigger engine. The top of the grade is along Rt.23. Too bad there is little daytime activity, pacing along that road looks and sounds great. But to keep in the subject of the original post, Susie-Q has even had to put engines on back of trains at Little Ferry on the grounds that it would be needed to get the train over the mountain. They also have had problems with bad weather or anything that makes the tracks slick. And yes, they do seem to overpower their trains sometimes but often it is a precaution.
jep1267 I'm in Pompton Lakes NJ just short of the Oakland border and the line runs right past my place.
I'm in Pompton Lakes NJ just short of the Oakland border and the line runs right past my place.
Well then there you go...up hill from Little Ferry, down to Limecrest and jct with former L&HR track, up to the old Erie Main...today's S.T. main, down the hill into Port Jervis, up and over Gulf Summit to Susuquehanna and into Binghamton. Need the power, need the dynamics, don't want to take all day to get a tow truck on the scene...
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trainfan1221Where on the Susie-Q are you. They have several notable grades that require extra power.
Where on the Susie-Q are you. They have several notable grades that require extra power.
Supplementing a couple of the posts above:
"Push-Pull" Possibility: Although seemingly not likely in your observed scenario, around here (Allentown - Reading/Lehigh Line) NS likes to operate some locals with a locomotive at each end to avoid the need for runaround moves at the C&F Secondary connection (switchback-type) at Alburtis. Same rationale also helps them to more quickly serve sidings that would otherwise be "facing point" (wrong way) if all the power was on the closest end. So if that kind of move was planned, that would be a reason for the extra locos.
Dynamic Braking Capacity: This one is maybe a little far-out, but maybe the extra units were along solely - or additionally - to add to that capability. If a downhill grade is much steeper than the uphill, or more cars or weight are added at the summit, it's possible that significantly more braking effort will be needed downhill than HP for the uphill. And as always, rather than rely on or use the air brakes heavily, take along some more dynamic braking capability to avoid that.
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You don't say which branch of Suzy Q you're on but that doesn't matter. Multiple locomotives are used to assure enough power...lots of hills on them there tracks virtually the whole length of the road from Little Ferry to Sparta, then up to Otisville and down to Port Jervis, up over Gulf Summit and on to Onitivia and Jamesville and down into Syracuse. Pulling power, dynamic brakes, air brakes all needed in peak use from the locomotive. Then there is the security of having enough power in case of failures: remaining power has to pull train plus dead unit or units (yes, units, as often more than one unit can and will fail); remember there are long hauls between engine terminals Little Ferry, Binghamton, and Syracuse, so there is no quick tow truck out on the road Plus there is the need of having a cab facing in each direction because of lack of turning facilities like wye's, turntables, and loops. I wonder if track and bridges would hold anything bigger than what they've already got, too.
Railroad route and tonnage requirements are rarely in balance between Origin-Destination pairs when it comes to locomotive utilization.
Simple example from times gone by...
Coal train from the Appalachian Mts. to a port at the Tidewater would require 3 units plus helpers over several grades enroute to move 150 cars. Once empty, those 150 cars could be handled back to the mines with 2 units. However, if the cars were loaded with iron ore (which was a possibility from time to time) going to the steel plants to move those same 150 cars would then require 8 units and two crew to handle the tonnage in 2 75 car trains.
If ore was running that Tidewater terminal was in a chronic power deficit situation. If ore was not running then the terminal had a continuing power surplus. Multiply these types of traffic situations by hundreds of O-D traffic pairs and you can begin to see the complexity of managing the locomotive needs of today's Class I's.
Modern for 1980, maybe. Probably getting old and tired by now. It is usually better for equipment longevity not to run it at capacity all the time. Sometimes it is more efficient to run 2 engines at a reduced throttle setting, rather than 1 wide open.
A branch may not have turning facilities at the end, so having an engine facing each way helps with crew morale, not having to run backwards on the way back.
25 loads at 263,000 per car is 3287 trailing tons. If the line is level, a SD40-2 should be able to handle it alone. Put some hills in, and you need more power.
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Also:
Maintenance Move - shuffling 1 or more of them to/ from an outlying duty station to the central shop for scheduled inspection & maintenance, and/ or unscheduled breakdown & repair, that is too heavy or extensive or specialized to be handled in the field at the site;
Reliability Reserve - not real confident that 1 or more locos won't quit along the way - esp. if they're old, or have a persistent tendency to do that (ever have a car like that ?) - so we'll take an extra or spare loco along right away to cover that contingency, rather than risk tying up the main if 1 quits and possibly then having to get another crew to bring it out to us anyway . . .
Well, I don't know if all of their locomotives are all that modern, but...
Ruling grade is a big one, plus if a locomotive fails, the train would still be able to limp along (depending on the Horsepower Per Ton [HPT] ratio) but if there's only one locomotive, a single mechanical problem knocks out the entire train, tying up that track until another locomotive can get out there to rescue the train.
Could be any of several reasons:
Ruling Grade - even a slight grade can substantially reduce how many cars an individual locomotive can move over the road. It may be mostly flat where you are, but that doesn't mean the whole railroad is flat.
There's More Train to Come - they may be picking up more cars up the road a bit which will require all that power.
Power Move - power is needed somewhere else. Often if that is the case, one or more of the locomotives may be off-line and not actually working.
And I'm sure there are more.
I live along a branch of the New York Susquehanna and I was wondering why would a railroad need multiple locomotives (2 - 4) for a 20 to 30 car train? The cars are a mix of 60 ft gons (aprox), 33,000 (aprox) gal tanks, 4 bay hoppers and center beam flats. I counted as many as 60 cars go by but it still seems like over kill.
Is it really more efficient to run multiple locos than just one? Wouldn't a modern loco be able to handle a drag of cars this long?
Just curious.
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