I read the transcript of the text messages, and if I am interpreting it correctly, the engineer was going to let one of the fans (Person A) run the train later, on the very day of the crash. This apparently had been planned for several days or weeks with both expressing an enormous amount of growing excitement and apprehension about the plan. From the emotional tone of these communications, I would speculate that there was enormous distraction to the engineer in anticipation of this impending run to be made by Person A. I did not make an exact count, but there must be 40-50 text messages exchanged between the two of them on the day of the crash, right up to the minute of the crash.
BoydAbout 20 years ago I got to climb in the cab of a loco. The inside of a 68 Chevy truck is exciting compared to the inside of a GP or SD loco.
Yeah - but there's always the allure of the forbidden....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Baling a river? About 20 years ago I got to climb in the cab of a loco. The inside of a 68 Chevy truck is exciting compared to the inside of a GP or SD loco.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
While I don't think that this has anything to do with the wreck, I once when I was about 7-8 yrs or so I got to go up in the cab of a NS locomotive.... Wasn't pretty I was baling a river. I would do anything to go up in the cab again!!!
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
Just imagine if that engineer had let cats or dogs ride along in the train,,, and then the ASPCA and the rest of the animal rights groups would all be in a huss and it would have been a REAL big problem.
Cab rides, or even visits, are neat opportunities. I have also had some of both: when I was younger (13) and more recently (at28 & 29). I won't say when or where on the more recent ones, but I have turned some down when I thought I'd get someone in trouble due to proximity of other crews/cameras/staff. I will say this: lots of crews I've encountered like Cheese Curds and Pepsi/Coke!
Dan
WIAR BaltACD WIAR It didn't seem to be a big deal when the management of the St. Croix Valley RR let me ride along in the cab during their Hinckley - Rush City turn a few Octobers ago. I wrote the railroad a nice letter asking if I could ride along, two days later I got a phone call at work, asking when I wanted to go? I got up to Hinckley, the engineer had a legal form ready for me to sign absolving the company of any liability if I got injured, and away we went (and I great trip it was even with my bladder ready to burst by the time we got back to Hinckley). When the apporpriate authorities of a railroad authorize a cab ride, it is 'no big deal'. However, a engineer is not the appropriate authority. In todays sue happy society parties will use any potential grounds to prove case, unauthorized cab occupancy would be one such ground in any kind of incident. If you're referring to my particular cab ride, the SCXY engineer wasn't the "authority" who granted permission. That permission came from the company headquarters up north who called me. The engineer is just the employee who handed me the document to sign.
BaltACD WIAR It didn't seem to be a big deal when the management of the St. Croix Valley RR let me ride along in the cab during their Hinckley - Rush City turn a few Octobers ago. I wrote the railroad a nice letter asking if I could ride along, two days later I got a phone call at work, asking when I wanted to go? I got up to Hinckley, the engineer had a legal form ready for me to sign absolving the company of any liability if I got injured, and away we went (and I great trip it was even with my bladder ready to burst by the time we got back to Hinckley). When the apporpriate authorities of a railroad authorize a cab ride, it is 'no big deal'. However, a engineer is not the appropriate authority. In todays sue happy society parties will use any potential grounds to prove case, unauthorized cab occupancy would be one such ground in any kind of incident.
WIAR It didn't seem to be a big deal when the management of the St. Croix Valley RR let me ride along in the cab during their Hinckley - Rush City turn a few Octobers ago. I wrote the railroad a nice letter asking if I could ride along, two days later I got a phone call at work, asking when I wanted to go? I got up to Hinckley, the engineer had a legal form ready for me to sign absolving the company of any liability if I got injured, and away we went (and I great trip it was even with my bladder ready to burst by the time we got back to Hinckley).
It didn't seem to be a big deal when the management of the St. Croix Valley RR let me ride along in the cab during their Hinckley - Rush City turn a few Octobers ago. I wrote the railroad a nice letter asking if I could ride along, two days later I got a phone call at work, asking when I wanted to go? I got up to Hinckley, the engineer had a legal form ready for me to sign absolving the company of any liability if I got injured, and away we went (and I great trip it was even with my bladder ready to burst by the time we got back to Hinckley).
If you're referring to my particular cab ride, the SCXY engineer wasn't the "authority" who granted permission. That permission came from the company headquarters up north who called me. The engineer is just the employee who handed me the document to sign.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
My knee jerk reaction is so what...I used to get cab rides all the time. Caboose rides. Engine rides. Tower access at many locations. But so much has changed. The railroad rules, regulations, and technologies, the people operating the railroad from top to botton are different. And so are railfans today so different. But September 11, 2001 isn't the only reason security is (and should be) tighter. Trains are faster and quieter. And the public is not as savvey about railroading as was way back when. An engineer in, say, 1960 or earlier probably worked for the railroad 25 or more years, two thirds to three quarters of those years working his way up to engineer as opposed to a 6 month "school" with computer synthacized hypothectical simulators. Today's train personell need to be more focused, less distracted. Texting, cell phones, cab riders, radios, miniature tv's, Blackberrys, and Palm Pilots all take attention away from the job at hand. Then there are the railroad's own radios, signal, and other communication and operating systems which constantly need attention. So, yes, this texting and giveing cab rides might just be a big thing.
(Best cab ride story goes back to the day after Chirstmas in the early or mid 80's. Was riding up to Dover Plaines, NY on the MNRR Harlem Div. MU out of GCT was normal in the coach. But the change to and RDC at Brewster North (today's Southeast), was quite different. Every seat in the car was filled, so what was a railfan to do? Of course. And there were at least 10 railfans riding the train that day. So we did. All of us. To Dover Plains. Back to Brewster North.)
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They are going to release the text messages....we will see how it relates....some stories seem to indicate the teens were texting him about cabrides around the time of the accident.
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Cabs rides were easy to come by in the 70s and 80s. I travelled from Kamloops to North Bend, BC on several occasions..also roamed the yards of both CN and CP in Sherbrooke Quebec. But I understand why there need to be more restrictions nowadays..
I am sure this is going to get some negative comments by those in the industry, but am I the only one on here who thinks it isn't that big of a deal to have a cab ride?
I have done it on three occassions--granted that was 20 years ago and the attorney in me shudders to think what would happen in the extremely unlikely event I would have been seriously injured in an accident. Moreover, even recently, in interacting with some who are in the industry, I have been offered cab rides--and I would have accepted time and travel not being a factor.
I am not going to hold my breath for the next cab ride--and I sure as heck am not going to make a railroader friend/acquantance of mine uncomfortable by asking, but it will be a cold day in . . . before I come down on someone for a cab ride.
Beyond that, I think the others on here have adequately identified the non-sequitor listed above.
Gabe
P.S. Does anyone ever give truckers a hard time for giving someone a cab ride?
BaltACD Highlights a history of bad judgement and rules failures by the individual....nothing more and nothing less.
Highlights a history of bad judgement and rules failures by the individual....nothing more and nothing less.
dehusman How it is relevant to the wreck is it adds information to the pattern of rules compliance and concentration by the engineer.
How it is relevant to the wreck is it adds information to the pattern of rules compliance and concentration by the engineer.
And nothing more. It is coincidental that the individuals involved were teens - they could have been fans of any age, or, as has been discussed elsewhere, someone not involved at all with railroads.
I'm sure the kids were thrilled that they were interacting with a real engineer. I've known full fledged adults (as opposed to chronological adults) who have been more than thrilled to set foot in the cab of one of our locomotives.
The bottom line is still pointing (IMHO) at bad judgement on the part of the engineer.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I don't know how that has anything to do with the actual wreck... While non-railroaders in the cab is illegal, it was totally unrelated to the wreck; since there were certainly not any riders when he passed the signal (if the engineer was killed instantly; the odds of any other people in the cab surviving and being able to get out of the wreck is incredibly low.)
Let's not group all teen railfans together after this; just a few of our number have done a lot to ruin our reputation; the teen railfans the engineer was texting, the 18 year old who was arrested in Chicago for driving the Metra train, plus a few others I know about (but won't post to protect them)...
A few people can ruin the hobby for the rest of us...
Wow, the bus that you just threw me under really hurt!
How is this relevant to anything helpfull with what happened and how could anything positive come out of posting this. Totally irrelevant and hurtfull.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
you forgot the link:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-metrolink-teens28-2009feb28,0,2230681.story
This article appeared in the Los Angeles Times: Engineer in fatal metrolink crash let teens ride in cab,
sources say.
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