Mystery Emergency Applications

[Anonymous]

This has happened to my twice in the last two days of working. One two different trains while shoving into the yard the trains I have been working on have mysteriously gone into emergency. Luckily the speed in the yard is 10mph. We couldn't find any busted air hoses, we didn't hit the ground, didn't come apart, etc. Does anyone know why this happens???[%-)]

[kenneo]

Tripple valve probably was not operating properly on one of the cars causing the train to dynamite. This usually happens if the hoghead sets a little air, and then WHAM.

[pmsteamman]

Just like kenneo said it may be the "control valve" has dirt or water in it causing it to stick or give a false emergency application, even if the engineer only takes minium reduction.

[Jackflash]

Ditto...to the above, I've had it happen to me with a hard run in of slack
jackflash

[csxengineer98]

the mistery is....................it had a kicker..............
kicker..... when you put the air on the train to stop... a valve on the car insted of putting the brakes on..it goes to the emergancy fuction..and since train air brakes work becouse of air presuer being added or removed from the trainline brake pipe... the sudden emargancy application from 1 car then sends the signal to all the cars ..and they all go into emergency..... its not bad in the yard... since your going slow...but a kicker on the road at say 50mph is BAD... my rule is...DONT USE THE AIR UNLESS I ABSOLUTY HAVE TO.... most of the time the dynamic brakes on the power are enought to slow it down and in most cases if you know your going to be stoping... almost bring the train to a stop... and at say 4 or 5 mph..start to put some engin brake on... and bring it to a stop... at that speed... with 20bl of engin brake... is good to come to a nice stop..without the head end running out becouse the dynamic kicks off when you go over 15psi on the engin brake....and then when i come to a stop..i set the min of 10 lb of air like the rule book calls for....
csx engineer

[mvlandsw]

Sometimes low air hoses will hit something causing them to bounce up enough to let the air out, then drop back down without separating. This is really a mystery since the air will pump up and the problem can't be found. I had this happen three times on one train before they separated and we were able to find and correct the trouble.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for your info! Is the triple valve the reason why the engineer couldn't restore air to the train???? We had to bleed off a good chunk of the train to get it moving again and we had to make several attempts before it did get moving? I was seeing this from the middle of the train because I was manning a crossover that goes from the main to the yard runner.

[pmsteamman]

n_stephenson the triple valve went the way of the caboose. Cars now use a control valve.

[Anonymous]

pmsteamman, you're right, I was just using the terminology handed down to me by the old heads.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n_stephenson

Thanks all for your info! Is the triple valve the reason why the engineer couldn't restore air to the train???? We had to bleed off a good chunk of the train to get it moving again and we had to make several attempts before it did get moving? I was seeing this from the middle of the train because I was manning a crossover that goes from the main to the yard runner.

Triple valve and control valve are the same thing, for the most part. Like csxengineer's kicker - we called it a dynamiter - because it would set off (as in an explosion of dynamite) all the other cars in the rest of the train.

And, yes, it will usually stay open and exhaust air from the train line. There is no way I know of the bring the air back up without closing the valve. Most often, if what caused the problem was dirt or water, it will clean itself out and the valve will reset by itself if you cut off the air flow. You may have to bleed the car in question, too. Most trainment around here do that as a mater of course to better insure that the valve goes back into its "normal" position. It the valve is stuck open because of ice, the only solution MAY be to cut out the air (by-pass the air brake system on that one car only). But that gets a bit serious.

The basic purpose of your triple/control valve is to charge the air reservoir, charge both sides of the brake piston, control the bleed of the air from the application side of the piston during application from the brake pipe and to "dump" the air when there is an emergency application. You know what I am talking about, because every trainman has opened the angle **** a bit too fast (at least once) and put the train into emergency. You have just dynamited your train. And you hear a whoooosh of air from each car, in turn, as the application propagated along your train. And you probably got a chewing out from the hoghead and the conductor.

It gets the name "triple" from the fact that there are one inlet and three outlet pipes on it. It gets the name "control" from the fact that it controls the flow of air through the car and operates the brake system by way of a sliding valve that operates from the various relative airpressures of the train line, brake reservoir and brake piston to set or release the air brakes.

Now, go "old head" them! [:D]

[wabash1]

it is very possible that you had a bunch leak. meaning that when the slack was bunched the hoses would rise and gap enough to cause the train to go into emergency. there is also a strech leak in which the opposite happens. In yarding my trains i dont use air til im down to 10 cars then i get some air.

[csxengineer98]

alot of times i dont use the air at all when makeing a double... most of the time...you can slow down enought for a good safe coupling just useing the engin brakes... but to do that..you have to have a good conductor that gives you good car counts.... going from 30 cars to 5 in about 10 car lengths means you got to start doing something fast if your shoving back at more then 4mph...then i start to reach for the air...and go at least 10 pounds....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Sure hope nobody had a self-arming FRED reciever and heard your marker code over the air.

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

alot of times i dont use the air at all when makeing a double... most of the time...you can slow down enought for a good safe coupling just useing the engin brakes... but to do that..you have to have a good conductor that gives you good car counts.... going from 30 cars to 5 in about 10 car lengths means you got to start doing something fast if your shoving back at more then 4mph...then i start to reach for the air...and go at least 10 pounds....
csx engineer

I thought we was talking about yarding trains . in yarding a train its simple but i will agree with you on making a train if i am shoving a good distance ill let it roll til around 15 or 10 cars that is when the new guys get scared so i let them get monkey arms. ( this is elongated arms from hanging to long on the side of a car) this is where i get it to 3.5 to 4 mph and right on back til i couple. depending on who it is i may make a egg shell coupling or like a good engineer and bring them back til they stop. rattle the ground and make sure people heard it a few miles away. I made a coupling a few weeks ago that was going to be easy and when they coupled stuff went everywhere in the cab. it was solid. the carman ask how fast i was going i told them 2 mph . and agreed with me i was going pretty slow and that it was the hardest coupling they seen i some time. there was no slack action at all. and i had a ole head conductor. i was sore later it rattled everything.

[Anonymous]

I know absolutely nothing about what you guys are discussing, but it sure is cool to read about it.

[Anonymous]

AS A FORMER ENGINNEER NOW A RAILROAD CONSULTANT ANY ONE OF THOSE ITEMS WILL PUT THE TRAIN IN A EMERGENCY, ALSO IF SOME ONE PULLS THE BLEEDER HANDLE IT ALSO WILL DO THE SAME ACTION TO ANY TRAIN REGRARDLESS OF HOW LONG THE BRAKE PIPE.

[wabash1]

never put a train in emergency bleeding it off. its next to impossible to do. .