amtrak derailment in mississippi

[Anonymous]

I regret to inform members that Amtrak's fabled City of New Orleans derailed last night north of Jackson, Miss., en route to Chicago. One person has been confirmed dead, and several were injured.
According to available reports, there aren't any apparent signs of sabotage or foul play, but after the Madrid attacks, one can't be too sure just yet. Apparently the FBI will investigate. The Mississippi governor has declared a state of emergency.
I'm sorry I didn't post a link, but you can probably find this story on most news sites, and eventually it will likely receive some coverage in Trains.

Some of the survivors reported seeing a cloud of dust before the train left the rails. The track has been said to have been left "mangled". What do you think about the possible cause? I understand how Sep. 11 and the Madrid attacks have changed our perceptions of security, but do you think it's proper to blame every transportation mishap on terrorists? I personally think it's unlikely that Al-Qaida or even fans of Timothy McVeigh would target one of America's relatively lightly used intercity passenger trains.

[AntonioFP45]

Very saddening trajedy.

Hopefully foul play was not involved, but it can't be discounted. The Sunset Limited was the victim of foul play in the desert a couple of years back as the area was remote and the thugs had time to sabotage the bridge.

We'll likely hear the "preliminary suspicion" by this weekend.

[Anonymous]

And then sometimes there are just jerks who want to have "fun". Back in 1982 some punks in New Jersey pulled a switch that diverted a loaded commuter train onto a sidetrack leading to a pasta factory. The train crashed into the factory, killing the engineer. Apparently the kids, who were about 16-17, were tried as adults and sent to prison for 2 years. One of them feels guilty about what he did, and recently actually made a movie about his exploits, the profits of which he said would go to the late engineer's family.

[SALfan]

Can anyone tell me exactly where the derailment occurred? I used to live just north of Jackson and was curious. Thanks.

[SALfan]

Never mind, found the info on another website. It was near Flora, about halfway between Jackson and Yazoo City.

[mudchicken]

CShave had it right. As stated in another post, it IS the season. Couple that with CN/IC and every other railroad having struggled for years with less than stable subgrade (river bottom fines and organic black dirt make lousy fill) in high moisture in Mississippi. Impact loading at speed will "mangle" rail - you could be looking at the after effect and not the cause.

The cause may not likely surface for weeks -or- will we have a supervisor look through his radio and determine it was soft subgrade from miles away.(?)...which has been known to happen.[%-)][%-)][%-)]

[Anonymous]

I would doubt this was terrorism related. Probably a simple broken rail or split switch. All the dust cloud shows is that something was derailed. Dragging equipment will kick up quite a bit of dust at speed. A terrorist act would be more obvious, like a bomb crater or blown apart equipment. Track that looks like spaghetti frequently is the result when trains derail at any speed. I wouldn't be too quick to look for any causes beyond the obvious unless there is reason to suspect more.

LC

[Mookie]

So anyone care to comment on the public relations nightmare Amtrak must be going through - or maybe not? Even I would have to think maybe a couple of seconds about traveling by train - which by the way - to their credit - went hooting through Lincoln this morning just about right on time. Always know it is Amtrak - not only by the sound of the horn - but by the way it sounds like it is going to a fire - whistle, whistle, whistle - lots of crossings bunched together!

Mook

[Big_Boy_4005]

Geeez, anything bad happens these days, and the first thing everyone thinks of is terrorists. PURE PARANOIA!!!!

What ever happened to a good old fashioned ACCIDENT, caused by a mechanical problem. Do we always need to find someone to blame???

Whoever saw a cloud of dust was probably well behind where the first piece of equipment left the track, ie the cloud of dust was the effect, not the cause.

The world does NOT shut down when someone dies in an accident. While unfortunate, dying is a natural part of living, and life does go on for everyone else.

If this ACCIDENT results in only a single fatality, it will be a cause for celebration for Amtrak and modern passenger equipment safety!!! Think about it, it could have been MUCH worse.

[Anonymous]

I seriously doubt that international terrorists would attempt a derailment in rural Mississippi, too isolated, and not enough media coverage from New York, etc. Now, what is more likely is some local crazies. As several have noted in earlier posts, we had a couple teens derailed a mainline freight here west of New Orleans in the 1970s, by opening a switch for a spur and the freight went into it at about 60 mph. The track is on a 15 foot high embankment, and the derailed cars nearly rolled onto some homes located only about 50-60 feet off the right of way. I lived about a mile away and it was the strangest crash I ever heard.

[Modelcar]

....Besides the death and injuries which is tragic....Amtrak now faces equipment shortages...I just saw a quick still overhead shot of the site and it appeared much of it was the up to date viewliner type cars and completely laying on their side and what appeared to be the ROW built up somewhat so the cars were laying down over the embankment or small tressle....and would probably have some serious damage. Now Gunn has more cars to get through repair....Hope he can find the resources to get it accomplished.

[The Block House]

Go to the Trains News page and they have a great sroty. The derailment was near Flora at MP 198 +. In watching local Memphis TV news last night what they showed is that the west rail remained in place while the east rais was in the ditch with the cars. Why can't Amtrack run the City on its old rout from Memphis to Jackson?

[RudyRockvilleMD]

While I also doubt if any foul play was involved the FBI is routinely called in early on when many railroad accidents occur to determine if a crime was committed, and if so, to secure the crime scene. Once criminal activity is ruled out then the investigation is handled by the NTSB.

Like The Blockhouse I also wonder why the former passenger route via Grenada, MS couldn't be used temporarily. That line has a lower speed limit, but is it still open between Memphis and Jackson? Is that line still signaled? Is its track capable of handling a passenger albeit at a reduced speed?

[edblysard]

Looking at the overhead shots on the news tonight, well, yeah, I bet someone saw a dust cloud.
In fact, bet it was a big dust cloud.

But, without the head end crew, the surfboard and the Feds input, all any of us can do is guess, which settles nothing.

If Gunn is smart, instead of trying to keep whatever happened quite, he should point out the rapid response of the Amtrak folks, and if, BIG IF, it was equipment or track failure, point out the need for more funding towards maintainance and newer equipment.

Ed

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RudyRockvilleMD

While I also doubt if any foul play was involved the FBI is routinely called in early on when many railroad accidents occur to determine if a crime was committed, and if so, to secure the crime scene. Once criminal activity is ruled out then the investigation is handled by the NTSB.

Like The Blockhouse I also wonder why the former passenger route via Grenada, MS couldn't be used temporarily. That line has a lower speed limit, but is it still open between Memphis and Jackson? Is that line still signaled? Is its track capable of handling a passenger albeit at a reduced speed?

The Grenada line is still open, and will be used as the freight bypass until CN gets things picked up -- which won't be too long. However, it has a bunch of slow orders on it. Neat to view the scenery, but...[:D]

[tree68]

Coverage I saw today indicated that stretch of line has been the site of several freight derailments in the past few years. That might tend to lead one to the conclusion that the accident was related to track conditions of some sort (particularly as discussed above).

With a nod to Big Boy, this was probably just an accident, although some say there is no such thing, in which case somebody gets blamed, but not for sabotage. Lousy track maintenance, maybe; failure to detect a developing problem, maybe; sabotage on a relatively straight section in the middle of no-where, I doubt it.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks, I'll go along with you there Larry, in any accident there is usually fault to be found somewhere. And in our highly litigous society, where there's fault, there are LAWYERS. Like ants at a picnic, they are unavoidable.[swg]

My father practiced law and hated it, too much of this kind of stuff.

[Anonymous]

Although this accident was unfortunate for the one individual, the one problem remains is, that for all of Amtrak's efforts to restore cars to working order, we're back to square one. We're now faced, once again, with an equipment shortage due to this accident. Plus too, everyone in the national news media will point fingers at us(Amtrak) for the cause of this derailment, not the fact that the tracks which we must use, are owned by someone else. CN/IC gets paid well each day for us to use their tracks. Knowing the type of weather patterns we've been having for the past months, where we''ve had alot of snow and rain, they should have been more vigilent with their inspections of the tracks, especially since the terrain in that area is subject to sink or wash away easily. Yet, no one will focus on those issues, only that Amtrak is to blame for what happened-end of story! Sounds crazy, but, fiction sells newspapers, not the truth!


Glenn
A R E A L RAILROADER...A TRUE AMERICAN!!!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Relax Glenn, Amtrak will muddle through this incident. The media furor will quickly subside as it always does. The equipment will be repaired eventually, and in less than a week, things will be back to normal.

Amtrak is not resopnsible for that track, they only use it, so if it turns out that the track was the cause, (which I suspect will be the case) Amtrak is off the hook. Beside, over the years, they have had much worse.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

Until the NTSB finishes its investigation of the derailment, and issues its report any speculation of the cause of the derailment is just that, pure speculation.