I WAS WONDERING, IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE WHO IS A RAILFAN OF THE ATLANTIC & DANVILLE RAILWAY? OR AM I THE ONLY ONE?
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DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE IS A HISTORICAL SOCIETY FOR THE A & D?
THANX
MARK
Nobody????????????
Well a few months ago I went to the James River Junction part of it, just west of Emporia and followed the Clairmont narrow gauge Branch right-of-way all the way to Clairmont. In many a place you can still see the right-of-way and even after 80 plus years of there are still four of the stations still standing in their original locations in good condition. Also, at Clairmont, you can still see where the roundhouse and turntable stood along with the very steep and winding path going down to the banks of the James River where you can still see the wooden footings for the piers, all this and much more, even after the Southern Railway abandond the branch 80 plus years ago.
That is why I was asking if anyone else was interested in the A & D. I know it's not a class one railway, or a good sized short-line, but at roughly 250 miles long, having both standard, narrow and duel gauges, one would think that more people would be interested in it.
Mark.
With it having been abandoned over 80 years ago, it is highly likely only the locals (and the very old ones at that) can even recall it's existence.
If you ever get the opportunity to trace the lineage of one of today's Class I's you will see, many, many railroads you have never heard of as they lost their identity way back when as they were assimilated by the larger carrier. To have been taken over by a larger company and then abandoned back in the days of the "Roaring 20's" must mean that this line had very little economic reason for existing and without that, very little sense of loss among the populace about it's passing.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
ONEHAGGIS Nobody???????????? . Well a few months ago I went to the James River Junction part of it, just west of Emporia and followed the Clairmont narrow gauge Branch right-of-way all the way to Clairmont. In many a place you can still see the right-of-way and even after 80 plus years of there are still four of the stations still standing in their original locations in good condition. Also, at Clairmont, you can still see where the roundhouse and turntable stood along with the very steep and winding path going down to the banks of the James River where you can still see the wooden footings for the piers, all this and much more, even after the Southern Railway abandond the branch 80 plus years ago. . That is why I was asking if anyone else was interested in the A & D. I know it's not a class one railway, or a good sized short-line, but at roughly 250 miles long, having both standard, narrow and duel gauges, one would think that more people would be interested in it. . Mark.
The only information I know that I have on the Atlantic and Danville is in old issues of the Guide, old Southern timetables, and Railroad Names, by William D. Edson.
From Railroad Names, we learn that the railroad existed (with no predecessor shown) from 9/1883 to 9/1899. When the fifty year lease expired (Whoops! I forgot I had this information, which is from a 1949 issue of Trains) 8/1949, the Southern let the road go, and it became active again as the Atlantic and Danville. In 11/1962, it became the Norfolk, Franklin and Danville. Since then, it has been drastically reduced as section after section was abandoned.
The June 1893 issue of the Guide shows a round trip passenger train from Belfield (now Emporia) to Claremont Wharf and back over the 3' gauge line. This line is still shown in the June 15, 1931 Southern timetable, with a mixed train using almost the same schedule as that of 1893. Did they use the same engine? The September 1936 timetable does not show the Claremont Wharf line, so it was abandoned some time between the two issues. The Southern timetables show James River Jct. to be 3.4 miles east of Emporia.
Incidentally, the A&D began at Pinners Point, not Norfolk. The Norfolk Southern and its predecessors, the Virginian, and the N&W were the only roads that went into Norfolk. All the others used ferries to get its passengers from Norfolk to their trains.
Johnny
Mark,
This is a good book by William Griffin on the Atlantic & Danville. Do a Google search on Atlantic & Danville and you will probably find it still available from Amazon, Barns & Noble and other book dealers. If modeling interests you Atlas has an HO scale A&D Alco RS-36. Also if you do a search for National Railway Historical Society website you will find a listing for the Tidewater chapter located in Norfolk area. I believe this group may have one of the A&D Alcos and I am sure you will find someone with interest in the A&D.
Charlie
BaltACD With it having been abandoned over 80 years ago, it is highly likely only the locals (and the very old ones at that) can even recall it's existence.
Your right. When I had ask a younger (mid 30's) about the old railway station at Spring Grove, he just gave me that "what are you talking about" look. So I asked the elderly man who ran/owned the general store and he told me about it.
BaltACDTo have been taken over by a larger company and then abandoned back in the days of the "Roaring 20's" must mean that this line had very little economic reason for existing and without that, very little sense of loss among the populace about it's passing.
The narrow gauge part was only used for lumber, one lumber mill, cotton and peanut farms
BaltACDIf you ever get the opportunity to trace the lineage of one of today's Class I's you will see, many, many railroads you have never heard of as they lost their identity way back when as they were assimilated by the larger carrier.
Yea, kinda like Walmart (class ones) taking over and putting the mom & pop shops (smaller railroads) out of business.
Mark
Wait a minute...
I remember the Atlantic & Danville being taken over by the Norfolk & Western and renamed the Norfolk, Franklin & Danville. I even remember seeing NF&D box cars. That was in the 1960s and 70s, hardly 80 years ago!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
1019xThis is a good book by William Griffin on the Atlantic & Danville.
Yes, I already have that book. Also, if you go to the Clairmont library and talk to the librarian, she will show you a history book on the town, which includeds more information that the book doesn't have in it.
1019xAlso if you do a search for National Railway Historical Society website you will find a listing for the Tidewater chapter located in Norfolk area. I believe this group may have one of the A&D Alcos and I am sure you will find someone with interest in the A&D.
Thanks. I will check them out.
CShaveRR Wait a minute... I remember the Atlantic & Danville being taken over by the Norfolk & Western and renamed the Norfolk, Franklin & Danville. I even remember seeing NF&D box cars. That was in the 1960s and 70s, hardly 80 years ago!
That was/is the standard gauge portion of the railway, which is now a branch line of Norfolk Southern. The NF & D box cars that you saw were NEVER part of the original narrow gauge line.
DeggestyWhen the fifty year lease expired (Whoops! I forgot I had this information, which is from a 1949 issue of Trains) 8/1949, the Southern let the road go, and it became active again as the Atlantic and Danville. In 11/1962, it became the Norfolk, Franklin and Danville. Since then, it has been drastically reduced as section after section was abandoned.
By the time the A & D became active again, the Southern Railway had already abandoned the narrow gauge portion of it.
1019xIf modeling interests you Atlas has an HO scale A&D Alco RS-36.
Your right. I was thinking that if you wanted to model the other styles of locomotives, rolling stock, ect. or in another scale, one could use a undecorated version and paint it themselves. Thanx.
So, I guess the answer to my original question is -- nobody but me.
well, this is my first post, and I couldn't find something better to start off with better than this.
.....right here, I am ALL about the old NF&D/Atlantic and Danville RR. My house sits right beside the old ROW and I can recall walking on the old grade when I was younger with my grandfather. so... no, you're not alone there, I find most abandoned line interesting, however this one seems to hold a special place in me.
have a good one :)
I finally just saw this post thanks to the last reply. I enjoy the history of all the local railroads in this area (Southeastern Virginia and Northeastern North Carolina). At the recent Greenberg show in Virginia Beach I was running my A&D RS-36's on my module group's layout and there were lots of comments and inquiries from folks at the show about them. What's interesting is that even though they finally came out with a factory painted A&D locomotive, the prototype RS-36's weren't delivered until after it was bought by N&W and renamed Norfolk, Franklin, and Danville.
These days see a lot of new activity on the east end of the railroad with a new intermodal port terminal being served by the short line Commonwealth Railway. A new right of way is being constructed along route 164 and I-664 to replace about six miles of the old A&D that runs through the Churchland area of Portsmouth, VA.
If everybody is thinking alike, then nobody is really thinking.
http://photobucket.com/tandarailroad/
This address was listed 8 years ago. I don't know if it's current.
Atlantic & Danville Railway Historical Society
P.O. Box 26
Evington, VA 24550
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1227.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1274.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1275.jpeg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/AD.jpg Danville Map
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/AD2.jpg Emporia
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/AD3.jpg West Norfolk
Main Line, West Norfolk to Danville, 203.46
James River Division, Belfield to Claremont, 51
Portsmouth Branch, Portsmouth to Shoulder's Hill, 10.64
Hitchcock Branch, Belfield to Hitchcock's Mill, 8.33
Savidge Branch, Savidge to Alcott's Mill, 5
Buffalo Springs Branch, Buffalo junction to Buffalo Springs, 3.89
Richmond & Danville Railroad, Jeffress to Clarksville, 1.50
283.82 miles of track in 1892
Mike
I am a big fan of the A&D. I plan on modeling the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line, which connects with the A&D/NFD, depending on the year I end up modeling. My interests are mainly Delmarva railroads, and I grew up on the Delaware Coast Lines track in Coolspring, Delaware. DCLR's Alco RS36 # 2 is none other than "the Deuce" (or Queen as she is called in Tidewater Triangle) from the A&D. She's a bit scabby, but last time I talked to the line's manager, she was a good running (and riding) engine. Somewhere she picked up paint similar to her original A&D scheme. Check out the link on below.
Regards,
Dave
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29794546@N07/3708930848/in/set-72157621181294647/
Years ago -- how many? let's say around 1965 -- there was a guy in Massachusetts named Adolph W. Arnold who liked to exchange model railroad passes with other modelers (a hobby within a hobby that seems to have largely disappeared), and his big interest was for some reason, the A&D. He started to publish a little newsletter with information about the railroad, and you could get it free! This was irresistable for a teenager. This started a strange little craze in the Atlantic & Danville back at that time.
It was then that AHM issued its HO scale 40' boxcar in an A&D paint scheme, I am sure in response to the interest Adolph W Arnold was generating in so many of us about the A&D. I still have the boxcar -- but I have a sinking feeling the various newsletters are long since tossed. Perhaps some one on these forums has a set they could copy for you (I am sure Arnold himself must be long since deceased)?
I have only the vaguest recollections of the A&D newsletters but I suspect the Griffin book referenced above has all that info and more. Note also the magazine index on this website has four entries for the A&D.
So one short answer to your question -- there was a little flury of interest in the A&D back in the mid 1960s due entirely to the quirky advocacy of one guy.
Dave Nelson
Railroad come and railroads go. It's amazing how 'over-built' some areas of the east were.
When living in Millbrook, NY, I become interested in the railroad than once ran through the town. As it progressed northward, it ran through Pine Plains, NY, and two other railroads served Pine Plains, TOO! Unbelieveable, three railroads in dinky little town like Pine Plains. One of them went west over the Poughkeepsie Bridge.
They all went through name changes, all became part of the NYNH&H, and all were abandoned. None of their trackage exits except a bit in Poughkeepsie, NY. And unremembered by most.
Art
In going through my railroadiana in preparation for an upcoming show, I discovered that I have an Alco-GE builder's plate from Atlantic & Danville S-2 No. 103. The plate has Alco serial number 77426, dated October 1949. This must be one of the locomotives that A&D purchased after they began to operate independently. I would prefer it go to someone with a great interest in the A&D.
Railfan4019 In going through my railroadiana in preparation for an upcoming show, I discovered that I have an Alco-GE builder's plate from Atlantic & Danville S-2 No. 103. The plate has Alco serial number 77426, dated October 1949. This must be one of the locomotives that A&D purchased after they began to operate independently. I would prefer it go to someone with a great interest in the A&D.
Do you still have the builder's plate? You can e-mail me at zzoxdoc@yahoo.com
John Fallon
I am doing some research on the old A&D Railroad. I didn't even know it existed until my great grand-aunt told me about it. My great, great grandfather, Ruffus Allen was a car builder/repairer/oiler for the railroad from 1903-1914. He lived in Portsmouth, VA.
~JTB
Hello group, sorry that I'm a little late to the party but I am a big fan of the old A&D/NF&D. I am currently modeling the line on a double deck layout in my basement. On the Bottom level is West Norfolk to Lacrosse and the top level will be South Hill to Danville. The bottom level is about 95% complete and work will start on the top level in january. I have also been planning on getting a website up and running dedicated to the A&D/NF&D from 1949 til the present. I have been researching the line for about the last year and a half and am slowly getting all of my information organized to put in a website. However I have very little information on the Claremont Branch and the narrow guage operations. As I find information about this, I will gladly pass it on!
Dustin
Welcome to the forum! If you get your website up and going, please let us know.
Dustin: I do not know where you are located, but you may want to make a trip to South Hill, Virginia, and see the model train exhibits in the remodeled A&D/N F & D train stattion. There is an exhibit showing the old A&D line and two engines pulling the trains: the #1 and #2 which came back into service after the A&D had been sold. They were refurbished from the old No. 101 & 102. The train station is immaculate and houses the South Hill Chamber of Commerce and the train and doll museum. Many great pictures and old treasures of the A&D are within. It is open 7 days a week from 9:00 to 4:00. My father, Matt Rainey, was the depot manager for many years and was the early telegrapher on the line. I have a picture of him in the station with a calendar on the wall showing August 1935. It would be a good trip for you and your family. I have a copy of the A&D newsletter, The Chatterbox, dated 1951 with my picture in it. I was two years old and considered the first "new baby" born after the A&D began independent operation at midnight on July 30,1949. I would be happy to meet with you on any occasion. The museum is free to the public and close to our Tobacco Life and Farm Museum. I hope this reply is not to long for the forum. Thanks, Monty Rainey.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I justed joined the group. I'm a big A&D/NF&D fan. I have been modeling the A&D for several yrs now. I started out in HO scale but have now moved to O 2-rail. I have a friend custom detailing/painting me a pair of RS-2's and one RS-3 for the A&D right now.
If you have a specific question email me at fmullins@cox.net
Fred
Fred - Welcome to Trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
My Blog
I live on the Claremont Branch at Lumberton. The Depot, one dilapidated barn and Dickerson's Store still stand. My dad died in 2012 at 92 and remembered when they could board the train at Lumberton at 6 am, arrive in Emporia at 10, shop 'till 2 and get back to Lumberton by 6 pm. I have some spikes, a few rail section pieces and there are several old fence-lines around that are anchored by rail-tie corner posts still solid after 80 years. The depot at Homeville is still in use as a farm building with its beautiful orange tile roof.
David Steele operated a mill on Blackwater River in Surry Co. and in Feb 1882 he built a tramway of 3 foot gauge, known locally as "Steele's Railroad" to transport his backload of lumber from his mill to James River. As an entrepeneur, he desired to create a rail-line to feed his mill and he obtained a charter on 21 April, 1882 as The Surry County Railroad and Lumber Co.
On the same day, the Virginia Legislature in Richmond, eager to adjourn, granted a charter to The Atlantic and Danville for a line from James River to the interior without realizing they had granted two charters for rail service in the same place. After a lot of bickering about who owned what and where, the A&D bought Steele out on 28 June, 1883 and the Claremont Line of the A&D was official.
From the wharf at Claremont it stopped at Spring Grove and then roughly followed what is now SR40 through Savedge Depot to Waverly and on to Homeville. It crossed the trestle over Nottoway River where its pilings are still visible at low-water, passed Church Siding and on to where I live at Lumberton, then it crossed tracks with the Surry, Sussex and Southampton RR, which was another narrow-gauge logging line, and on to Yale Depot and Hilda, The line crossed the Virginian at Gray Depot, then went through Mason, Grizzard and the end-of-line at Emporia.
After nearly 50 years of service to our local communities, The Great Depression and the decision to anchor the line at Hampton Roads instead of Claremont spelled doom for this branch of the Atlantic & Danville line.
Information from Chapter 1 of H. Temple Crittenden's "The Comp'ny" 1967. Library of Congress Catalogue # 67-21865. Jethro.
I am also interested in the A&D as well as the NF&D. I visit Clarksville in the summer, and I am interested in RR history of the area. Currently, the Buckingham Branch owns/operates the bridge across Kerr Lake, and the tracks around Clarksville. It serves the power plant, which in the summer recieves loaded coal hoppers (owned by NS) about once a week. It would be awesome if someone could give some detailed history of these RR.
Also an interesting fact, on the NC side of the lake, there is an old steam locomotive that sank in a river (before the dam was built) after a bridge collapsed.
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