Triple Crown to Minneapolis

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UP_North

While I'm not sure about the line farther north, between Chicago and Butler the UP runs north and south, and we are dispatched that way too. Sorry about the confusion.
Another amazing fact. All three north bound trains so far have made it through Proviso without a problem as far as I know. Wait till the newness wears off and they will be sitting just like any other train in the yard

No problem, the Twin Cities are an interesting place for the UP, because 3 sub divisions meet here. The Altoona is the one these trains are using, and runs to just east of Eau Claire. The Albert Lea is the north south AKA the "spine line". And, the Mankato runs southwest toward Omaha. I just looked at the timetable, and the Mankato is also considered north south.

We went and chased Tuesday's "Chicago bound" train. (I give up on directions, Chicago bound is unambiguous.[;)]) It pulled away from the East Minneapolis ramp at 17:05, moved about a half mile and sat at a signal for over an hour. About 18:15 it had gotten out to the joint trackage, and moved up 2 miles to where we were waiting, 17 trailers in tow. It was very easy to chase, even with city traffic, because it moved so slow. We were able to catch it 6 times over its 20 mile run out of Minnesota. Once it started after that signal, it took over an hour to travel that distance. That has to be so tedious for that crew going that slow for that long.[:p]

[CShaveRR]

My own questions about the operation in Chicago (if I worked days, I'd probably know):

How do these trains run between NS and Proviso: via IHB, or via the Rockwell SD?

And in Proviso: via County Line, or via 19 Main?

For old heads: can't you imagine Armando (Herman) I. trying to keep these suckers moving?

[UP_North]

While I'm not sure about the line farther north, between Chicago and Butler the UP runs north and south, and we are dispatched that way too. Sorry about the confusion.
Another amazing fact. All three north bound trains so far have made it through Proviso without a problem as far as I know. Wait till the newness wears off and they will be sitting just like any other train in the yard

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by UP_North

From what ive been told, the majority of the northbound traffic is for Ford. The southbound traffic is still developing so we shall see what the first southbound looks like this evening. It has been called for 1500 cdt at South St. Paul.

When I read this the first time I was a little confused by South St Paul and southbound. Around here when you say southbound, you usually mean the spine line to Des Moines. The route in question here is really more east west, even though leaving Chicago it runs mainly north south. I believe UP uses east and west for the old 400 line.

I finally realized what is happening. The power for the train is being dispatched from South St Paul at 3 PM, and running light up to East Minneapolis to pick up the train. It is then scheduled to leave at 5:30 PM heading east over the joint BNSF tracks to Westminster St, where it enters UP's Altoona Sub for the trip to Chicago and points east.

It sounds like a fun afternoon project to chase this thing. There are a couple of routes the power could take between South St Paul and East Minneapolis. I think I'm starting to foam.[swg]

Well at least I won't have to get up at 5am and pack sandwiches for this one.[:D][:p][:0][;)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UP_North

From what ive been told, the majority of the northbound traffic is for Ford. The southbound traffic is still developing so we shall see what the first southbound looks like this evening. It has been called for 1500 cdt at South St. Paul.

When I read this the first time I was a little confused by South St Paul and southbound. Around here when you say southbound, you usually mean the spine line to Des Moines. The route in question here is really more east west, even though leaving Chicago it runs mainly north south. I believe UP uses east and west for the old 400 line.

I finally realized what is happening. The power for the train is being dispatched from South St Paul at 3 PM, and running light up to East Minneapolis to pick up the train. It is then scheduled to leave at 5:30 PM heading east over the joint BNSF tracks to Westminster St, where it enters UP's Altoona Sub for the trip to Chicago and points east.

It sounds like a fun afternoon project to chase this thing. There are a couple of routes the power could take between South St Paul and East Minneapolis. I think I'm starting to foam.[swg]

[MP173]

Chicago - Minneapolis service is essentially "2 day service". I the cut-off time is 1pm at Proviso, then the math says the load either has to be picked up early morning or the previous day.

Most loads are shipped in the afternoon. However, JIT is based on reliable service, so if it is a JIT operation, two day service could be ok, but they will never compete for the time sensitive LTL or TL freight.

The LTL is picked up late afternoon, cross docked and then line hauled, cross docked again and delivered the next morning.

Also, it will be interesting, as someone already noted, what kind of traffic comes out of that area. Will there be any cross Chicago movements to the NS TC service? If so, there you have the big Chicago moat again.,

ed

[Junctionfan]

I was wondering how heavy the rail to Minneapolis is that Triple Crown plans on running on. I believe that since CN is out of the question, NS through Triple Crown should run roadrailer service between the autoparts plants in Buffalo to the assembly plants in Detroit. I believe also that roadrailers be made so they can be safely be run up to 100 mph and pulled by either Amtrak P-42 or other railroad P-42s (NS, UP and BNSF should by P-42 for this purpose). Any roadrailer service on the north-east corridor could be operated by an amtrak AEM 7 with new electrified track from Montreal to Miami. UPS should have their own roadrailers also.

[UP_North]

From what ive been told, the majority of the northbound traffic is for Ford. The southbound traffic is still developing so we shall see what the first southbound looks like this evening. It has been called for 1500 cdt at South St. Paul.

[jeaton]

I didn't mean to imply that the service is the be all, end all service. There is still the need to cart the trailers to and from the rail head, gets the boogies on and off, etc., and of course have a good volumn between terminal pairs. My thought on the "right circumstances" about smaller volumns would be an intermediate point on a route such as Chicago-Cities, but I certainly could be wrong.

And, oh yes, there are many circumstances where it makes no sense to ship any other way than straigt over-the-road.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well when you put it that way, maybe they are saving that much money. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great having more rail traffic, and getting those loads off the freeways. If the shippers don't mind getting their stuff there a little slower, then the service should be a winner. It certainly saves energy and manpower!!!

True the 400's did do over 100 MPH to compensate for station stops. Of course the average was 60 MPH. 400 miles in 400 minutes was the schedule, hence the name.[swg]

I never thought of this problem from the perspective of, just because the load arrives quickly, someone will be there to receive it. There is no REAL rush, so why hurry up and wait???[:p]

[jeaton]

Having had many years experience as a buyer of transportation service, the schedule on this train looks pretty good. While we don't know the actual origins and destinations of the freight on this train, if one was to assume Chicago area to the Twin Cities area, overnight service is as good as it is going to get, unless it goes by air.

Although I m sure there are many exceptions, generally most shipping and receiving docks are going to be in operation say from about 6 in the morning to 6 at night. Shipping tends to be later in the day and receiving in the morning. Unless a traffic manager wants to develop ulcers, grey hair and nervous tics, he is not going to try to extablish a same day delivery from Chicago to Minneapolis as a routine.

This thread noted that the UP seemed to being doing some up-grades on the line. I am sure that upgrades to allow an eight hour run would be too costly to allow a competitive price for the service and still generate an adequate return on the investment.

"Just in Time" doesn't mean it has to break all speed records. It means we want the shipment to arrive between 7 and 10am Wednesday. If it takes 5 days in transit, set your shipping schedule to accomodate that time.

I have been away from the business too long to have a handle on the comparative costs of this service vs. TOFC/COFC or over the road, but it seems to have some interesting potential. Without the need for expensive load lift machinery, and 12" concrete pads to handle their weight, I would guess that establishing a "ramp" would be a relatively inexpensive process. In the right circumstances, maybe profitable volumn could be as little as 25-30 loads a day over the ramp.

Jay

[UP_North]

it only took four people to take 55 trailers 400 miles. Lets see four truckers do it that fast. The 400's also did a hundred miles an hour

[Big_Boy_4005]

13 hours? The C&NW passenger trains made Chicago to Minneapolis in under 7 hours. Over the road truckers make the trip in 8 hours max. I drove it a couple years ago, and made it in just under 6 hours, but I didn't have to go through Milwaukee on 94. I cut the corner on 90 at Madison.

I realize that much of the track in western Wisconsin is crummy, but that is under a 30 MPH average!!! It isn't like there is traffic to contend with over the bulk of the run. Are the customers saving that much on this service, to make it worth slow delivery?

[UP_North]

Remember it will be four round trips per week, so if 55 is an average thats 440 less per week.

[jeaton]

UP_North

Welcome to the forum, and thanks to you and everyone else for your posts on this subject.

As a frequent traveler on I-90 Janesville-north that's 55 less trucks to deal with. Many more left so here's hoping it is a big sucess.

Got a trip to the Cities coming up in August, and will have camera in tow.

Jay

[UP_North]

The computer said the train arrived at east Minneapolis at about 0230 on the 18th. that would make it about 13 1/2 hours from proviso to the twin cities not too bad for the UP up this way. For the record it had 55 trailers and was more than 2 hours ahead of schedule at arrival.

[Anonymous]

My sighting on the South side of Milw. (St. Francis) was at about 15:30.

[bjc77]

I also saw the Triple Crown train by Friesland this afternoon at about 18:20. Just as UP_North said, it was powered by UP 4710. It was moving right along, should have made it to Adams around 19:00.

Where are they removing the bogies at in Minneapolis? I have one week left up at St Paul for conductor training and would like to check out where they unload them.

[Anonymous]

Saw the North (Westbound) Roadrailer train heading for Mnpls today. Saw it on the South side of Milwaukee, right behind Mitchell Airport. One locomotive (newer SD) and about 40-50 trailers.

[UP_North]

The new ZCHEM is tenatively on the lineup for 1300 cdt at Proviso behind the UP 4710, but thats always subject to change. The train is supposed to be good for 10 over the timetable speed so it should be good for 60mph between Proviso and St. Francis but we will see. For a little info the Milwaukee sub is good for 50 all the way from Proviso to St. Francis except for a 25 mph slow order at Deval, and the obvious speed restrictions through all the spring switches and over the EJ&E at Upton. If everything is on schedule it could make for some good afternoon pictures. Have a day

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TwinModal

From a friend in the Triple Crown sales dept; gate cutoff at Mpls is 16:00 M,Tu,W,F with a 17:30 departure. First departure set for Monday 7/19. She didn't have an inbound schedule yet. But it would make sense to have an inbound train first, 'cuz they'll need the bogies for the outbound trip

Thanks, that would put them at my local grade crossing around 6 PM,depending on traffic in the Midway. Once they hit the east side, they have the track all to themselves. I'll keep my ears open for an inbound tomorrow, but I have some errands to run.

That schedule is perfect for me, because during the school year, I have to take my kids over to their mother's house at 6 every weeknight, and we have to cross the tracks, so we should be seeing these things all the time. Somehow I don't think the kids and I will get sick of them. Beside they should just zip by. Let the fun begin!!![swg]

[Anonymous]

From a friend in the Triple Crown sales dept; gate cutoff at Mpls is 16:00 M,Tu,W,F with a 17:30 departure. First departure set for Monday 7/19. She didn't have an inbound schedule yet. But it would make sense to have an inbound train first, 'cuz they'll need the bogies for the outbound trip

[Anonymous]

I stopped by on the way home from work last night. The lights were on, the sign was up, the yard was paved and the weeds were cut. Three new yard dogs were parked and ready to go to work. Two empty trailers were parked waiting for a reload....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Tomorrow--July 17--is the first day, according to UP's paper.

Any body have a clue as to the schedule?

[CShaveRR]

Tomorrow--July 17--is the first day, according to UP's paper.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hey gang, this was the week they were supposed to start rolling. Has anyone seen anything? I've been too busy to look, but a couple of weeks ago I did drive by the Kasota terminal. Maybe next week I can get out and get some pics and post them here.[8D]

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Zardoz

My guess is that you are seeing Triple Crown freight moving between their Chicago terminal and points in Wisconsin. On occasion, I have seen Triple Crown vans in Delavan.

It appears that the start-up is awaiting completion of work on track a facilities. Obviously, this is in competition with over-the-road truck service. It isn't going to sell unless the train's running time is competitive. Given the bucks involved, it is a good idea to have all the ducks in order before start-up.

What intrigues me is the possibility that there could be a terminal set-up in the Milwaukee area, say at Butler Yard. Anyone with ideas about that?

Jay

Too bad the CNW sold off the big yard at Bain. That would have been a good spot for a terminal (3 miles from I-94, halfway between Chicago and Milwaukee). Back when I was on the CNW, the employees kept trying to convince the railroad that Bain would have been a good spot for a "Global 3 or 4". But alas, to no avail.[sigh]

(p.s.--Bain is just off of Hwy K on the west side of Kenosha. It used to have 16 long tracks that AMC used to load it's autos, with acres of (still) unused land to expand in to)

[Anonymous]

Don't want to burst anyones bubble, but triple crown trains grow old pretty fast, from an observers POV..

The first dozen you see are "novel" and new, but after that....every train seems just like the last, since they don't mix them with other cars,...and usually one loco is more than enough to pull the whole string.

They are pretty impressive on how quick they accelerate from a dead stop though

[Anonymous]

The Minneapolis terminal for the Triple Crown RoadRailer service will be 525 Kasota in Minneapolis. Just a couple blocks west of MN280.
I stopped by there today and there was a truck delivering portable office space trailers. There is freshly graded fill dirt, a line of MofW cars loaded with ballast and a couple of incomplete track switch panels laying on the ground.
There as also an old K-Line 40' container retro fitted with an a/c, windows and doors. It was painted with UP logo & colors and marked "Northern Tie"
I have heard the first RoadRailer trains to/from Mpls are planned to be distpatched on July 12th.
Maybe some one out there with a contact in UP operations can discover what the schedule will be.