Track gauges around the world?

[beaulieu]

 

I would seriously doubt that Spain and Portugal are going to re-gauge anytime soon.  Consider the expense of having to re-gauge all of their motive power and rolling stock, some of which may not be able to be re-gauged.

A standard-gauge line parallel to an existing broad-gauge line is probably to allow for high-speed passenger service (TGV??) to the rest of Europe.  There is a similar arrangement in Australia between Sydney and Melbourne.  Australia also has dual-gauge trackage on the main line into Brisbane from New South Wales and near Perth in Western Australia.

The line from Barcelona to the border at Port Bou is graded and ready for tracklaying out in the countryside. But the final route within Barcelona and Girona, hasn't been finalized yet, in typical Spanish fashion they leave the hardest part till last, then with an election looming they panic and throw tons of money at the project so the Ruling party can claim credit for completing it.

For Paul, RENFE specified that the 150 new Bombardier TRAXX freight locomotives on order, be built so that only a truck swap would be required to change them from broad to standard gauge, and only the truck frames, and wheelsets wouldn't be reuseable. So there must be some thought that they might change within the lifetimes of these locomotives. Also the Standard gauge line from Barcelona to the French border is intended to be used by freights during the nighttime hours. This will give the Barcelona area a big edge for better freight service and would create pressure to slowly change most of the rest of the Broad gauge network. The Ford Auto Assembly plant at Silla would be a beneficiary of this change, currently most Autoparts containers are trucked from Port Bou, since two transloads in less than 100 miles isn't economical, similarly finished Autos are trucked to France and loaded there, rather than at the plant.

[marknewton]

Did you forget about the 2,000 odd kilometers of 2' gauge in Queensland?

Mark.

[peterjenkinson1956]

australia had four gauges   wide gauge    victoria to south australia     standard gauge    every where except tasmania     3foot 6inch gauge   this is the british colonial gauge used in the british empire   australia  newzealand  south america etc    the fourth australian gauge was in the  state of victoria  it was 2foot 6 inches     it was for the rural lines...                                  look up " puffing billy railway "   there was also some very small timber lines built with home made equipment that had unusual gauges  however i cannot remember the details at the moment

[marknewton]

A standard-gauge line parallel to an existing broad-gauge line is probably to allow for high-speed passenger service (TGV??) to the rest of Europe.  There is a similar arrangement in Australia between Sydney and Melbourne.  Australia also has dual-gauge trackage on the main line into Brisbane from New South Wales and near Perth in Western Australia.

The broad gauge from Seymour to Albury has been handed over to ARTC, and is going to be closed and replaced by additional standard gauge track. There was a recent Steamrail excursion from Melbourne, billed as the last broad gauge steam train to Albury, to mark the closure.

The dual gauge in Queensland you mention is only from Acacia Ridge to Fisherman's Island, not the NSW border.

http://www.networkaccess.qr.com.au/Images/StandardDualGauge-Issue2-October2006_tcm10-2856.pdf

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

The track gauge of The Ferrocarril Austral Fueguino (Southern Fueguean Railway), former logging-now-tourist railroad located near Ushuaia, Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina, is 50 centimeters, or 19.68 inches.  Their primary motive power includes two 0-4-0+0-4-0s, of which the most recent one was built a couple years ago in South Africa.

Mark

I'd like to know the deceision process and factors that caused them to use a gauge that narrow.

Well, a governmental bureaucrat was probably involved in deciding on the half-meter track gauge since the railroad was part of a prison operation.  My thought is that the gauge is about the smallest that can handle human operators, and the government wanted the cheapest railroad that would work.

G'day Mark!

The original prison railway at Ushuaia was 60cm gauge, using Decauville track and locos from O&K.

http://www.railwaysofthefarsouth.co.uk/10_frameset.html

I'm not 100% certain of this, but I was under the impression from a report in CRJ that the new line was built to 50cm gauge because of the availability of 50cm track and IC locos at the time construction started. I'll try to find that issue of CRJ and confirm that, if I can.

50cm & 60cm "portable" railways were quite common in Europe and the UK in the 19th century, and they were exported to all their colonies, territories and possessions.

http://www.wiseacres.co.uk/rlr/history.htm

All the best,

Mark. (the one in Australia)

[markpierce]

Why would the Russians need to change the gauge of the Trans Siberian?  The technology already exists to change the gauge on the cars.  There is through passenger service from Berlin, Warsaw, Etc. to many points in the former Soviet Union.  The gauge of the wheelsets are changed at the border with the former USSR.

The same thing happens at the Spanish - French border.  The run through cars (and locomotives on the Talgo) have the gauge changed at the border.

It would be far simpler to have sets of intermodal flats or well cars with variable gauge trucks than to completely change the Russian track gauge.

Changing of the bogies is featured in the currently-released movie "Transiberian" when the trains goes from China to Russia.

Mark

[Tulyar15]

Tulyar15:  The last time I went through Port Boa (on the Mediterrnean coast) the Spanish were constructing a new standard guage line from the border to Barcelona. I do not know its progress but maybe you have access to that information. Spain is finally getting on the standard guage bandwgon.

That's right, they've just opened a new high speed line from Madrid to Barcelona, which like all the new high speed lines in Spain, is 4' 8.5" gauge. The plan is to extend it to the French border to join up with their high speed lines. There's also talk of container trains being allowed to use it; in France they run them at 90mph as indeed do some such trains here in Britain.

I'm not aware of any plans to convert existing Spanish 5' 6" lines to 4' 8.5". Curiously up till the mid 1980's there was an isolated 4' 8.5" line in the northern province of Asturia. At Gijon, on the Atlantic coast - the provincial capital, this line had a terminus alongside both a broad gauge RENFE station and the narrow gauge FEVE station. But in the 1980's it was taken over by the FEVE who converted it to metre gauge! The redundant 4' 8.5" station is now the Asturian Regional Railway museum. On display is a wide variety of rolling stock on now less than 5 gauges; the above three plus 2' 6" and 2'. They have a short line on which they run some of the 2' gauge locos and stock, so this is another place where you can see trains of three gauges in action side by side!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Tulyar15:  The last time I went through Port Boa (on the Mediterrnean coast) the Spanish were constructing a new standard guage line from the border to Barcelona. I do not know its progress but maybe you have access to that information. Spain is finally getting on the standard guage bandwgon.

I would seriously doubt that Spain and Portugal are going to re-gauge anytime soon.  Consider the expense of having to re-gauge all of their motive power and rolling stock, some of which may not be able to be re-gauged.

A standard-gauge line parallel to an existing broad-gauge line is probably to allow for high-speed passenger service (TGV??) to the rest of Europe.  There is a similar arrangement in Australia between Sydney and Melbourne.  Australia also has dual-gauge trackage on the main line into Brisbane from New South Wales and near Perth in Western Australia.

[JonathanS]

I think I remember reading something relatively recently that in an effort to speed up intermodal deliveries to Western Europe the Japanese once approached the Russians about regauging the Trans-Siberia to 4'8½"; according to what I read the Japanese proposed that they would foot the bill for all of the intermodal equipment to be used. The Russians still display considerable 19th Century paranoia and rejected the proposal.

Now that, my friend, is a Trans-continental Railroad!!!!!

Why would the Russians need to change the gauge of the Trans Siberian?  The technology already exists to change the gauge on the cars.  There is through passenger service from Berlin, Warsaw, Etc. to many points in the former Soviet Union.  The gauge of the wheelsets are changed at the border with the former USSR.

The same thing happens at the Spanish - French border.  The run through cars (and locomotives on the Talgo) have the gauge changed at the border.

It would be far simpler to have sets of intermodal flats or well cars with variable gauge trucks than to completely change the Russian track gauge.

[blue streak 1]

Tulyar15:  The last time I went through Port Boa (on the Mediterrnean coast) the Spanish were constructing a new standard guage line from the border to Barcelona. I do not know its progress but maybe you have access to that information. Spain is finally getting on the standard guage bandwgon.

[Tulyar15]

I believe there are one or two bits of daul gauge track near the borders of what was the Soviet Union and one or two neighbouring countries, but only in a few areas where it lends itself to operational convenience.

On the France / Spain border on the Atlantic coast of those countries there's a bit of dual gauge (5' 6" and 4' 8.5") track on the bridge over the river that forms the border. This enables Spanish (5' 6" ) trains to reach the French town of Hendaye, on the east bank and French trains to reach the Spanish town of Irun. Just to add to the interest, the metre gauge Feve Railway, owned by the Basque regional government also crosses the river on its own bridge and has its own small terminus in Henday across the car park from the joint SNCF (French Railways) and RENFE (Spanish Railways) station.

[marknewton]

I also seem to remember that during the Cold War, all Warsaw Pact countries were equipped with dual-guage track (5' and 4' 8.5") to facilitate Russian movement through the captive nations.

No, this is incorrect. The Warsaw Pact countries all remained standard gauge - there was no dual-gauging as you suggest.

Cheers,

Mark.

[AltonFan]

Weren't the military supply railroads in France in WWI built to a gauge of 60cm?

I think I remember reading something relatively recently that in an effort to speed up intermodal deliveries to Western Europe the Japanese once approached the Russians about regauging the Trans-Siberia to 4'8½"; according to what I read the Japanese proposed that they would foot the bill for all of the intermodal equipment to be used. The Russians still display considerable 19th Century paranoia and rejected the proposal.

Now that, my friend, is a Trans-continental Railroad!!!!!

I remember watching a documentary about a Russian rail route which had service to destinations in China.  IIRC, when the Russian trains got to the border, the cars were jacked off their 5' guage trucks, and replaced with Chinese 4' 8.5" guage trucks.

I also seem to remember that during the Cold War, all Warsaw Pact countries were equipped with dual-guage track (5' and 4' 8.5") to facilitate Russian movement through the captive nations.

I remember reading back in the 1980s, that the Russians were trying to negotiate installing 5' guage track in parts of West Germany and perhaps Denmark, ostensibly for trade.

[markpierce]

5'6" gauge is also used by BART in the US. The wide gauge was supposedly picked so the trains would be stable with respect to the winds blowing across the Golden Gate bridge - the line to Marin County would have used the bridge if Marin had voted in favor of joining BART. 

Marin Countyites doesn't much want public transportation on land routes (except for limited bus service) through their jurisdiction.  This is evidenced by their refusal of BART service and now-current efforts to block reopening of the Northwestern Pacific.  They want to keep development to a minimum.  This is done with highly-restrictive land-use policies, high bridge tolls, and funneling monies into high-fare, uneconomic ferry service.

Mark 

[erikem]

5' 6" gauge, as well as being used in Spain, Portugal, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh (the last 4 countries were all part of the British Empire of India) is also I believe used in Argentina and Chile.

5'6" gauge is also used by BART in the US. The wide gauge was supposedly picked so the trains would be stable with respect to the winds blowing across the Golden Gate bridge - the line to Marin County would have used the bridge if Marin had voted in favor of joining BART. 

[marknewton]

Australia indeed has three gauges: 3'6" (not meter) in Queensland and Western Australia, 5'3" in Victoria and parts of South Australia, and 4'8.5" everywhere else including some dual-gauge main lines in Victoria and Queensland.

Australia has 5 gauges - 5'3", standard, 3'6", 900mm, and 2'.

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

India has two gauges: 5'3" and meter gauge.  Both are large networks although the meter gauge is gradually being converted to 5'3".

India has four gauges - 5'6", metre, 2'6" and 2'.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Tulyar15]

I thought India (and Pakistan) were 5' 6", not 5'

Correct. 5' 3" gauge is used in Ireland, some Australian states and Brazil.

5' 6" gauge, as well as being used in Spain, Portugal, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh (the last 4 countries were all part of the British Empire of India) is also I believe used in Argentina and Chile.

As to the question of the ideal gauge, it depends on a number of factors. I know of a nuclear power station in Scotland that has a railway of 5' 4" gauge for purely internal use. The reason for this unique gauge is that the sole purpose of this railway is to transport containers round the site and based on the size of these containers 5' 4" was thought to be the ideal gauge. Ironically the only locomotives are two diminutive 4 wheel Ruston and Hornsby 48hp diesels (their standard DS48 classs).

[blue streak 1]

Two thoughts on guage. Coal mines would pick a guage that fit their operating needs. May width of seam and would move locos and cars to other locations and change guage. ie any width possible.

Spain is changing all their main lines to 4' 8-1/2" to interchange equipment with France. Madrid- Barcelona has been completed. Don't know about Portugal.

[markpierce]

I think I remember reading something relatively recently that in an effort to speed up intermodal deliveries to Western Europe the Japanese once approached the Russians about regauging the Trans-Siberia to 4'8½"; according to what I read the Japanese proposed that they would foot the bill for all of the intermodal equipment to be used. The Russians still display considerable 19th Century paranoia and rejected the proposal.

Now that, my friend, is a Trans-continental Railroad!!!!!

I don't get it.  If the traffic is intermodal, why would one want to change gauges to avoid one point of modal change in a 7000(?) mile journey when the majority of the traveled railroad would require modification?  The whole idea of intermodal is to have an efficient method of transporting goods from one mode of transportation to another (as between railroad, truck, ship. and railroads of different gauge)?  Will someone enlighten me?  If Japan was willing to pay for the regauging, then that is another thing.  Thanks.

If Russia's unwillingness to regauge its railroads to conform with European standard gauge would be a significant financial benefit by avoiding transferring containers between trains of a different gauge, then this is one reason Russia will never meet its potential for being a wealthy country with happy citizens... If so, like many under-achieving nations (as far as economic development is concerned), Russiaian government thinking has been poor.

Mark

[TH&B]

Weren't the military supply railroads in France in WWI built to a gauge of 60cm?

I think I remember reading something relatively recently that in an effort to speed up intermodal deliveries to Western Europe the Japanese once approached the Russians about regauging the Trans-Siberia to 4'8½"; according to what I read the Japanese proposed that they would foot the bill for all of the intermodal equipment to be used. The Russians still display considerable 19th Century paranoia and rejected the proposal.

Now that, my friend, is a Trans-continental Railroad!!!!!

 

 

hahahahaha... The cost of the equipement would be 100th the cost of redoing the gauge and then still halve to boat it across to Japan.   It would be cheaper for Europe and japan to go russian gauge.  

 

Worth a try though.

[markpierce]

Weren't the military supply railroads in France in WWI built to a gauge of 60cm?

 

From Wikipedia: 

"Trench Railways represented military adaptation of early 20th century railway technology to the problem of keeping soldiers supplied during the static trench warfare phase of World War I. The large concentrations of soldiers and artillery at the front lines required delivery of enormous quantities of food, ammunition and fortification construction materials where transportation facilities had been destroyed. Reconstruction of conventional roads and railways was too slow, and fixed facilities were attractive targets for enemy artillery. Trench railways linked the front with standard gauge railway facilities beyond the range of enemy artillery. Empty cars often carried litters returning wounded from the front.

"France had developed portable Decauville railways for agricultural areas, small scale mining, and temporary construction projects. France had standardized 60-centimenter gauge military Decauville equipment and Germany adopted similar feldbahn of the same gauge. British War Department Light Railways and the United States Army Transportation Corps used the French 60-centimeter gauge system. Russia used Decauville 60-centimeter and 75-centimeter systems."

Richard Dunn's book Narrow Gauge to No Man's Lands discusses the US Army's 60 cm railways in WWI France.

Mark

[markpierce]

The track gauge of The Ferrocarril Austral Fueguino (Southern Fueguean Railway), former logging-now-tourist railroad located near Ushuaia, Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina, is 50 centimeters, or 19.68 inches.  Their primary motive power includes two 0-4-0+0-4-0s, of which the most recent one was built a couple years ago in South Africa.

Mark

I'd like to know the deceision process and factors that caused them to use a gauge that narrow.

Well, a governmental bureaucrat was probably involved in deciding on the half-meter track gauge since the railroad was part of a prison operation.  My thought is that the gauge is about the smallest that can handle human operators, and the government wanted the cheapest railroad that would work.

[Railway Man]

I thought India (and Pakistan) were 5' 6", not 5' 3".

The gauge issue is interesting.  AFAIK, the smallest commercial rail operations were a two foot gauge (or just under).  The largest was just over 7 feet.

George Hilton deals with the issue in his "American Narrow Gauge Railroads".  Aparently, to this day, no one knows what the optimal gauge is.  Not that it matters.  4' 8.5" is the settled "standard" from the Mexican-Guatamalan border to Fairbanks, Alaska, as well as in Europe, China and elsewhere.  And that isn't going to change. 

Standard Gauge is close enough to ideal that even when all-new, disconnected, single-purpose railways are constructed today where a different gauge would not create significant extra cost, no one bothers to waste the client's money studying if some other gauge might be more cost-effective to move the freight or passengers.  Standard Gauge could have been anywhere from roughly 4"6" to 5"3" and been just fine.

RWM

[greyhounds]

...The gauge issue is interesting.  AFAIK, the smallest commercial rail operations were a two foot gauge (or just under).  The largest was just over 7 feet....

The track gauge of The Ferrocarril Austral Fueguino (Southern Fueguean Railway), former logging-now-tourist railroad located near Ushuaia, Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina, is 50 centimeters, or 19.68 inches.  Their primary motive power includes two 0-4-0+0-4-0s, of which the most recent one was built a couple years ago in South Africa.

Mark

I'd like to know the deceision process and factors that caused them to use a gauge that narrow.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

There is also a shrinking network of 610mm (roughly 24") routes in South Africa.  Check out the baby GE's that are used:  http://www.locopage.net./afr-pics.htm    Scroll down to South Africa for the UM6B's.

The Russian paranoia over invasion is deeply ingrained into the psyche of the Russian people over the centuries and isn't going away anytime soon.

[R. T. POTEET]

Weren't the military supply railroads in France in WWI built to a gauge of 60cm?

I think I remember reading something relatively recently that in an effort to speed up intermodal deliveries to Western Europe the Japanese once approached the Russians about regauging the Trans-Siberia to 4'8½"; according to what I read the Japanese proposed that they would foot the bill for all of the intermodal equipment to be used. The Russians still display considerable 19th Century paranoia and rejected the proposal.

Now that, my friend, is a Trans-continental Railroad!!!!!

[tomikawaTT]

Rather looks as if the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch is the 'narrowest' commercial (non-amusement park) railway operation.  It operates 1/4-scale steam (some of US design) - and a school train for the local education establishment.

For the teenagers present, how would you like to go to school on a 15-inch-gauge 'school bus?'

Chuck

[scottychaos]

A list of gauges used throughout railroad history:

http://www.parovoz.com/spravka/gauges-en.php

Scot