Riding the Southwest Chief

[Anonymous]

I want to ride the Chief all the way someday. I can't wait. [:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

Great description and tips, MC, but let's tell her why the window slams shut at Coolidge (good for a laugh unless you happened to be there at the time)...

Back in the early days of Amtrak (early 1970s) they thought they could overturn the local blue laws by claiming (1) the train was not a fixed locale in KS, (2) was in interstate commerce (which my lawyer friends tell me should have worked), and thus was not subject to state regulation, and (3) they were federal, so buzz off. And they opened the bar. This worked great until the KS revenooers bought tickets, got on board and busted the Super's train crew--ALL OF THEM--and left the train and passengers sitting out on the main line in the middle of nowhere out by Dodge City. Amtrak chickened out (no pun intended, steel plumage) and thus the window slams shut.

By the way, lest one think they discriminated against trains, they also tried it with airlines, buying tickets for the agents on thru flights and trying to cite the crews for serving drinks in KS airspace. This sort of needled airline management who, like good corporate citizens everywhere, had an investment in most of the reelection campaigns, and a compromise was very quickly reached--no booze in KS airspace only if the plane was going to land or take off at a KS airport. The only relevant airport affected was Wichita.

If we didn't have state legislators and regulators, we'd have to invent them.

Cheers! (but not east of Coolidge...)

This is in reference to the description to “Blue Law.” Historically ‘blue laws’ have been associated with state laws prohibiting the sale of merchandise on “Sunday.” This would also apply to alcoholic beverages not being sold only on Sunday. In the late 1950’s or early 1960’s Kansas did away with ‘blue laws’ and allowed Sunday sales of merchandise. For many years state of Missouri did not allow Sunday sale of merchandise and thus on Sunday Missourians cross the Kansas state line and packed the malls on the Kansas side. Alcohol beverages were still prohibited from sale. Just this year there have been challenges to Sunday sales of alcohol beverages, beer and liquor. Kansas was a prohibition state until 1949 when beer was allowed to be purchased.

In Kansas during the 1970’s and before, ‘blue laws’ were associated with prohibiting the sale of merchandise on Sunday. Kansas had a law called “liquor-by-the-drink.” It was not a ‘blue law.’ Liquor-by-the-drink referred to the way hard liquor was to be served in clubs. If someone wanted to socialize by having a drink at a bar or club they had to belong to the club. On top of that they had to bring their own bottle (BYOB). If a traveler wanted to drink liquor at a bar club in the hotel they had to show their room key in order to get a drink.

Now, why did state of Kansas all of sudden decide to stop trains for being an open saloon? Vern Miller (Democrat) was the Kansas Attorney General and he was out to enforce the letter of the law that previous attorney general’s had let go by. Miller, previous to becoming attorney general in Kansas was Sedgwick County Sheriff which included the City of Wichita. He got his law degree while he was sheriff. Vern Miller became the brunt of jokes around the United States and in Kansas. Miller got his 15 minutes of fame and then some. He later ran for governor but was unsuccessful.

The anti-liquor-by-the-drink people or United Dries applauded Miller. Sometime in the 1980’s liquor-by-the-drink was repealed by the voters. The counties voting in the majority for the measure could have liquor-by-the-drink, (don’t have to take your bottle anymore or belong to a club) in their county. In counties where the measure failed liquor-by-the-drink law was to remain in effect. An interesting aspect to the repeal of the law, all most all the counties along the interstate highways passed the law.

So, ‘blue laws’ are not related to liquor consumption enforcement but to prohibiting general merchandise being sold on Sundays.
To read more on Sunday Blue Laws read here as the Christian Science Monitor discusses “In The Battle For Sunday, The ‘Blue Laws’ Are Failing”: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1205/p01s02-usju.html

LRS…..

[Anonymous]

Dear katwoman99,
I have ridden the Southwest Chief from Los Angeles to Albuquerque more times than I can count. I highly reccomend it, but make sure you get a sleeper. Make sure you check out my rules for railroad dining in the "Dinner in the Diner" topic on the Classic Trains forum, to make the most out of your railway dining experience [:)].

By the way, how would you get there without taking the train? Surely you're not thinking of taking one of those newfangled flying machines [:)].

See you around the forums,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

ironhorseman--

You may be right as to details--working from memory & got original info from a KS Asst AG who also might not have had the details right. At any rate it must have been a wild time. And I thought at the time that we used to have some weird blue laws here in TX. That one made up for all of them.

Regardless, the Chief, albeit a mere shadow of its former self, is still a very nice ride most of the time and worth a recommendation.

[Anonymous]

If yyou can avoid it don't ride COACH

DOGGY

[ironhorseman]

Rode the SW Chief from Newton to Kansas City to go to St. Louis. First time it was about 5 hours late, had something to do with flash floods in NM. KC always has some kind of delay. The eastbound train stops somewhere around De Soto for the 1,000mi inspection and sometimes to pick up their road railers. Then they stop in Argentine Yard to refuel. Westbound out of KC they have to load up the mail which takes time. Then I guess they refuel again. I remember getting on board sometime after 11PM and went to sleep around midnight and woke up at 1 or 2AM and were still in KC.

It sounds worse than it really was. I didn't ride in a sleeper because it was cheaper to go coach for the distance I was traveling. The eastbound trips are supposed to be in the middle of the night across Kansas until you get somewhere around Topeka but as late as it is sometimes the whole trip from Newton to KC could end up being after sunrise (sometimes). I've tracked the Chief on the internet and the phone before and found it's pretty much on time just about everywhere else, even leaving KC late they make up time whether it be east or west-bound.

Now, about those liquor laws: Kansas is peculiar on this point. I guess it goes all the way back to the days of Carry A. Nation who hacked up bars with her hatchet and bible. Kansas had prohibition laws longer than the national prohibition amendment was in place. In a criminal justice class, I don't remember which teacher, we told that beer was allowed to be served in restaurants in Kansas up until the late 1980s. Most college kids today are too young to remember that. The Sunday liquor laws are up for debate in the Legislature on whether to repeal it. Right now you still can't purchase liquor in Kansas on Sunday, that's why everyone goes to the nearest neighboring state, around here in Wichita they all go to Oklahoma.

The Amtrak raid in the 1970s I thought was in Newton, I read about it in "Ghost Railroads in Kansas." It was also my understanding that the law enforcement didn't purchase tickets to get on board they just raided it anyway. I'd have to go look it up in the book again at the library to see exactly how it played out. The airline liquor law and raids were true too. It's under some law about operating an open saloon, may also have something to do with the age of some riders on board being under 21. I'd have to look it up in the statutes ( http://www.kslegislature.org/cgi-bin/statutes/index.cgi ).

However, since the Chief passes through overnight into the early morning hours I don't know why or if the bar car would be open at those times. If fact it's not a bar car anymore, the lower level of the lounge car operates like a concession stand. It was always closed when I rode the Chief but the one on the St. Louis Mule and Ann Rutledge between KC and STL was always open between Independence and Kirkwood, and their alcoholic beverages were always usually beer.

You can check the SW Chief's menus when you get on board. They keep them in the coach seats and I suppose in the sleeping cars. Didn't really pay too much attention to them, only had time for a quick breakfast on the two roundtrips I made.

[Anonymous]

My wife and I rode the SW Chief last July from LA to Chicago. Got a sleeper (which as was pointed out earlier was tacked onto the end). The car was recently refurbished and looked and rode like new. The attendants were very nice to us. The scenery was fantastic. Going up Raton pass you can see the whole train from front to back from the lounge car. Rally neat. My wife slept almost he entire way from Raton to Chicago. She got lots of rest (half the purpose of the trip) and we got really great scenery to view especially through Colorado and New Mexico. There was a park ranger who gave a talk in the lounge car as we were going through New Mexico, and he told us some of the history of the area we were travelling through. A great trip worth taking.

[Anonymous]

That's really weird about Kansas blue laws. What exactly does that law stipulate and why does closing the window on the bar car void the personnel of the SW Chief?

[Anonymous]

I highly recommend riding the SW Chief. The wife and I just completed a trip from Galesburg Il to Flagstaff AZ (March 3-4) and return (March 14-15). From Flag, we rented a car and went on to Phoenix to catch some warm weather. The ride was really great and pretty much on time (I think we were 15 minutes late coming into Galesburg on the return trip). We experienced no engine failures enroute. However, westbound, early into our trip, the power kept cutting out in our car. But they got that fixed in La Plata Mo. The cool thing was the really cheap fares. Through Amtrak's Railsale, the two of us got round trip coach tickets for $260, total. Once on board, we asked about upgrading to sleeper which cost us $100 more and included free dinners in the Diner. Of course, the scenery over Raton and through New Mexico was great. We're ready to go again!

John

[hogger42]

QUOTE: Originally posted by katwoman99

I'm thinking about taking the Southwest Chief to a family reunion this summer, and now that I've read through an earlier topic about breakdowns, derailments, and whatnot, hey--who out there has ridden it and had a GOOD time? [:)]

I rode it a few years back between La Junta and Kansas City to go to engineer recertification in Overland Park at JCCC. It was a great trip.
Since it was cheaper than flying (and I won't fly in the first place) the company bought
me a sleeper both ways. That included my meals both ways.

hogger

[Anonymous]

Rode the Chief from Chicago to LA about 15 years ago. It was great. A few odd folks on board, but no mechanical issues back then. Great scenery on the La Junta CO to Albuquerque NM section. Also, you get to see Cajon pass from the train. We had some very fast running in Western Kansas. Pretty great memory.

We took the Chief to LA, the Starlight to Seattle and the Builder back to Milwaukee. What a circuit. All for $199.00 or about 3 cents / mile.

[Anonymous]

Great description and tips, MC, but let's tell her why the window slams shut at Coolidge (good for a laugh unless you happened to be there at the time)...

Back in the early days of Amtrak (early 1970s) they thought they could overturn the local blue laws by claiming (1) the train was not a fixed locale in KS, (2) was in interstate commerce (which my lawyer friends tell me should have worked), and thus was not subject to state regulation, and (3) they were federal, so buzz off. And they opened the bar. This worked great until the KS revenooers bought tickets, got on board and busted the Super's train crew--ALL OF THEM--and left the train and passengers sitting out on the main line in the middle of nowhere out by Dodge City. Amtrak chickened out (no pun intended, steel plumage) and thus the window slams shut.

By the way, lest one think they discriminated against trains, they also tried it with airlines, buying tickets for the agents on thru flights and trying to cite the crews for serving drinks in KS airspace. This sort of needled airline management who, like good corporate citizens everywhere, had an investment in most of the reelection campaigns, and a compromise was very quickly reached--no booze in KS airspace only if the plane was going to land or take off at a KS airport. The only relevant airport affected was Wichita.

If we didn't have state legislators and regulators, we'd have to invent them.

Cheers! (but not east of Coolidge...)

[mudchicken]

felinefemale98+1:

(1) How far east are you going? Stay out of the chair cars if you are going all the way east to Chicago...

(2) If # 3 (WB) or #4 (EB) get in trouble, the problems usually happen east of Newton or west of Flagstaff.... The trains are on time more often than not. The trains are usually the most nuts during the summer months or around holidays. Right now, between La Junta and Albuquerque, the passenger trains are pretty much the only trains out there...Almost as light trafficwise between La Junta,Co and Newton, KS and both ways you are running at night or super early in the morning. If the trains are on time, expect a 30 minute layover at La Junta before taking off again while the train waters, fuels and the food service resupplies. When eastbound on #3, the window at the bar in the lounge car closes (Bam!) when you hit Coolidge, KS and encounter Kansas' really bizzare blue laws. Been working in the Trinidad, CO area the past few months and it is rare that the train is late in either direction......

Iron Feathers

[Anonymous]

katwomen
I've ridden the Chief and I have seen it a lot and has some good seneary west La Junta but they frequntlly have Locomotives overheat on Raton Pass and ridning the train is awlays a good time if you would like the normal consist it consits of 3 to 4 GE P42DC 1 Baggage Car 1Crew Drom 2 to 3 Sleepers 2 in the winter 3 in the summer the 3rd is noramlly at the rear of the train 1 Diner 1 Lounge 3 to 4 Coaches depending on the season 3 in the winter and 4 in the summer then like 10 to 14 Mail Cars

Hope This Helps

DOGGY

[katwoman99]

I'm thinking about taking the Southwest Chief to a family reunion this summer, and now that I've read through an earlier topic about breakdowns, derailments, and whatnot, hey--who out there has ridden it and had a GOOD time? [:)]