For all those foamers who dont really care aobut the guys running the engine.. maybe this will change your mind. This really touched me.
http://www.ble.org/pr/newsletter/0400newsletter/story14.html
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Incredible.
The crew seemed to do all the right things.I have never been involved in anything where a death was involved.I don't think I would have done as well.
Little car hit by big train.Naw.Little car dared big train and lost.Stupid little car.
Working for local government, I am bothered by how often we are dumped on by some on the forum. I was happy to see Mr. Santucci's comments about the compassion of the police, coroner and I am sure the paramedics were, too. Can't say the same about his trainmaster. Local governments are the closest to the public and we are all trying to do a job, and a little more understanding of what each of us, on both sides are trying to accomplish would go a long way.
Mr. Santucci's story needs to be spread the through OLS and any other public forum we have. I will be posting it at my Public Works shop, where we have to cross a CSX main to get in and out everyday.
Wow!
My house is in Antioch. (I work in Fond du Lac and come home weekends.) I never knew that happened at the Rt. 173 crossing. I wasn't living here then.
That crossing is right where the CN line splits the high school with school buildings on the west side of the tracks and athletic fields on the east side.
I usually use a short cut that avoids the 173 crossing. It's "Grimm Road" (that's its name). I'd say it is a mile or so south of 173. The Grimm Road crossing has lights and gates just like 173, but it also has a sign "No Train Horn". I'll try to remember to check tomorrow if the 173 crossing is also now in the quiet zone.
As for our local government employees, they do a fine job. The firefighters are volunteers and one of our police officers was recently drug by a car down a highway after he tried to stop two hoods from Chicago who had just stolen some liquor. While being drug he got a shot off causing them to turn him loose and head for Chicago. Chicago police picked 'em up and they're in the slammer.
When you read me complaining about "the dang government", it's about the Pols and the 'Crats who think they know what's best for everyone and think we should just fork over our money so they can take over our lives.
coborn35 wrote: For all those foamers who dont really care aobut the guys running the engine.. maybe this will change your mind. This really touched me.http://www.ble.org/pr/newsletter/0400newsletter/story14.html
I imagine the media was as inaccurate as usual in this case. Last year there was a non fatal accident in Arlington, SD involving a grain truck and a train. The driver claimed he didn't know about the crossing, even though he lived 12 miles away and the crossing was on US 81. (With overhead signals). And he would have had to stop for US 14 less than 100 feet past the crossing.
Then some rocket scientist of a reporter for the Sioux Falls paper, (largest in the state) said in the article "The crossing didn't have any GUARD RAILS protecting it." I assume this doofus meant gates, but gates wouldn't stop a double trailer grain truck, even if it was empty. Heck, they wouldn't stop a motorcycle.
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
Well, that's (the story) all well and good, but after having 10 grade crossing incidents similar to what was reported in the story, I am rather surprised at the amount of damage the locomotive sustained, especially since near the end of the story it is mentioned that the train hit the car broadside. I've cornered (hit) trucks that caused less effect to the locomotive. Every car I've hit (at up to 70mph) was just a small impact and a little noise.
Then there is the superhuman effort by the engineer of not only getting up off his seat as the locomotive is just about to jump off the tracks and/or tip over while at the same time hitting a radio button, and while the slack was slamming into the locomotive, he was still able to talk to the dispatcher. Too bad he didn't think of bailing off the independent--maybe the slack run-in wouldn't have been so great.
And then, of course, there is the mean, inhuman Trainmaster (what did you expect in the BLE Newsletter?).
At the end, the writer says "maybe life is stranger than fiction". Well, to me it seems if anyone would know about fiction, it would appear that the writer certainly does.
zardoz wrote: Well, that's (the story) all well and good, but after having 10 grade crossing incidents similar to what was reported in the story, I am rather surprised at the amount of damage the locomotive sustained, especially since near the end of the story it is mentioned that the train hit the car broadside. I've cornered (hit) trucks that caused less effect to the locomotive. Every car I've hit (at up to 70mph) was just a small impact and a little noise.Then there is the superhuman effort by the engineer of not only getting up off his seat as the locomotive is just about to jump off the tracks and/or tip over while at the same time hitting a radio button, and while the slack was slamming into the locomotive, he was still able to talk to the dispatcher. Too bad he didn't think of bailing off the independent--maybe the slack run-in wouldn't have been so great.And then, of course, there is the mean, inhuman Trainmaster (what did you expect in the BLE Newsletter?). At the end, the writer says "maybe life is stranger than fiction". Well, to me it seems if anyone would know about fiction, it would appear that the writer certainly does.
?????????????????
Every accident is different. Certainly sounds all too familiar to the one I experienced. The engines did not lurch to the side but we surely bottomed out. Not to sound too disrespectful, but you do this thread no justice by criticizing your fellow 'brothers'. This is very informative to the weekend photog that still doesn't understand what we go through. The fact that we show up every day makes the trains run and everyone can enjoy their hobby.
By the way I was on the leader of three new UP SD70M engines, and all three had damage as well as the first boxcar. The leader was so bad on one side, the steps were mangled front and rear. 40 mph vs. a Chevy S10?(I guess, not much left)
That woman in South Florida who lost her legs to an FEC train should read this!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
My sympathies to the train crew for their pain and suffering. The deceased victims of this accident are no longer in any pain and are not suffering like the train crew members are. If these moronic girls had not played "hookie" that day and gone to school like they were supposed to have done they would most likely be here today (for the record I know some reading this will be saying "and I'll bet he NEVER cut a class"...well, no, I did not in all four years of High School and had perfect attendance).
Those girls are totally to blame for their fates, nobody else did anything wrong...with the possible exception of their parents for allowing them to stay out of school that day and THEN to drive away from the house when they were supposed to be "sick". Yes, I know I will be accused of being cold hearted SOB, but so be it, the results of their stupidity are cold and the facts behind this tragedy are equally as cold...and so is the pain and anguish of the train crew.
Joe "Tuch" Santucci is an excellent writer. He has a blog which is very informative and historical. He used to write about every two weeks, but now perhaps 10 times a year. He has been attempting to have a book published and his last report was that it might be out next year.
He is worth reading.
ed
coborn35:
No doubting your courage.
PL
i remember reading this story when it was in print in the BLE news letter that is sent to my house in 2000... sent chills down my spine reading it in detail... taking with old heads befor about such things was never as detailed or hit home as hard as reading that story in 2000... so far in my 10 years in T&E service..i have yet to be involved in a situatino as horrific as this... i have destoryed one car but it was unoccupied thank god... odds say its only a matter of time..well i personal hope i beat the odds.....
csx engineer
My second accident was at a grade crossing. Luckily we hit her full size buick dead center with the coupler and front plate fo the H24-66 Trainmaster. Not much damage to the engine, just a messed up coupler and a scrapped front plate. We were doing 80 MPH when we hit her. i think the impact probably killed her. We saw it coming and hung on. Sure felt the engine slam into her. Pushed her for over 1/2 a mile untill we stopped. Could not go into emergency because we had commuter cars behind us and did not want take a chance of to derailing them. As we pushed her you could see the car coming apart. I grabbed a fire extinquisher, just in case. Our Trainmaster was much kinder to us and let us go after everything was wrapped up.
For those of you who don't know of Joe Santucci he writes the "Hot Times on the High Iron" column. Just Google that name and you should get a few hits. He is currently employed by the Canadian National as a locomotive engineer and operates trains on the old Illinois Central south out of Chicago.
Ed
MP173 wrote: Joe "Tuch" Santucci is an excellent writer. He has a blog which is very informative and historical. He used to write about every two weeks, but now perhaps 10 times a year. He has been attempting to have a book published and his last report was that it might be out next year.He is worth reading.ed
[\quote]
Fine. Whatever. If you prefer to imagine much more drama, then don't let me stand in your way. And things are only informative if they are accurate, just as criticism is not disrespectful if it is justified.
Of course every incident (not accident) is different--to some degree. Perhaps because each one of my 10 incidents were so similar that I began to surmise that most incidents would continue to be more or less the same. I even cornered a full-sized pickup at 50mph with a suburban train's cabcar, and the only damage was to the pin-lifter and it's supporting bracket.
I guess it's fortunately for me that each time my 200-ton locomotive struck a 2-ton vehicle the laws of physics continued to function.
I'm really surprised that the Trainmaster expected these guys to continue working after that accident. Is that legal? Surely there would be several concerns with that...1) the obvious state of mind of the men and their ability to function properly...2) at that point no one knew if the crew was responsible or not...hey..for all anyone knew at that point the engineer could have been at fault or maybe high on drugs...Anyone remember Rick Gates and the Conrail train that slammed into a passenger train after missing a signal? I wonder if Gates was dispatched again immediately thereafter without inquiry.
As the crew was found to be not at fault my condolences go out to these men. The fact that they were sued is a sad commentary on society.
locoi1sa wrote: This should be required reading in every drivers ed class. Plus during retesting.
That's a powerful letter and I second that motion and raise you a few: 1). Copy of letter should be displayed, if not presented, by Operation Lifesaver. 2). BLE should send copy of letter to local newspapers everytime a grade crossing or tresspassing incident is published. 3). All police departments, especially railroad security, should have copies of letter and hand out to those who didn't get hit but got caught. 4). Letter should be presented to public whenever and wherever there is a demand for "quiet zones" or any complaint about blowing for crossings. 5). Be sure all railroad museums and tourist lines get copies to display or give out. 6). Post copies of letter at railroad stations or anyplace the public gathers around a railroad type venue. 7). Compliment and suppliment with more letters from more engineers and train personell who have been aboard an engine that hit a vehichle or a person.
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Ulrich wrote: I'm really surprised that the Trainmaster expected these guys to continue working after that accident. Is that legal? Surely there would be several concerns with that...1) the obvious state of mind of the men and their ability to function properly...2) at that point no one knew if the crew was responsible or not...hey..for all anyone knew at that point the engineer could have been at fault or maybe high on drugs...Anyone remember Rick Gates and the Conrail train that slammed into a passenger train after missing a signal? I wonder if Gates was dispatched again immediately thereafter without inquiry. As the crew was found to be not at fault my condolences go out to these men. The fact that they were sued is a sad commentary on society.
Up until about 8 years ago you had a job to do and they did not haft to relive you now if you want relief they will find a crew. yes it legal and your not being redispatched your still on the same dispatch your just continuing your run. Welcome to the real world of railroading where reality slaps you in the face and kindness and coutesy is fantasy.
zardoz wrote:[quote user="L&N_LCL_SUB"] Every accident is different. Certainly sounds all too familiar to the one I experienced. The engines did not lurch to the side but we surely bottomed out. Not to sound too disrespectful, but you do this thread no justice by criticizing your fellow 'brothers'. This is very informative to the weekend photog that still doesn't understand what we go through. The fact that we show up every day makes the trains run and everyone can enjoy their hobby.By the way I was on the leader of three new UP SD70M engines, and all three had damage as well as the first boxcar. The leader was so bad on one side, the steps were mangled front and rear. 40 mph vs. a Chevy S10?(I guess, not much left)[\quote]Fine. Whatever. If you prefer to imagine much more drama, then don't let me stand in your way. And things are only informative if they are accurate, just as criticism is not disrespectful if it is justified.Of course every incident (not accident) is different--to some degree. Perhaps because each one of my 10 incidents were so similar that I began to surmise that most incidents would continue to be more or less the same. I even cornered a full-sized pickup at 50mph with a suburban train's cabcar, and the only damage was to the pin-lifter and it's supporting bracket.I guess it's fortunately for me that each time my 200-ton locomotive struck a 2-ton vehicle the laws of physics continued to function.
Zardoz, you raise some interesting points.
I wonder if the records of the technical details of this crash exist and are perhaps available to the public. I assume that if the locomotive leaned way over in response to hitting the vehicle, it was because that vehicle was forced under some part of the locomotive and lifted it. If this lifting obstruction were toward one side of the locomotive, the lifting action would roll the locomotive to the opposite side.
This sort of overrunning the obstruction could derail a locomotive, but not necessarily. It is possible for wheels to leave the rail and come back down on it without derailing. In the case of this crash, the author of the account does not mention whether or not he believed the wheels left the rails momentarily during the side roll. It sounds to me like the extent of roll that occurred would have come close to derailing the locomotive either by completely upsetting it, or by disengaging the flanges on the side that the engine rolled toward.
Just guessing, but I don't believe this overrunning the obstruction happens very often during a grade crossing crash. It seems to me that a lot of things would have to happen just right in catching a disintegrating part of the vehicle. If part of the vehicle were run upon by the locomotive lead wheels it could easily be grabbed and pulled under, but the fouling object would have to be small enough to pass under the pilot and then cover the distance back to the first wheel(s).
In order for a fouling object to lift the locomotive without going under the wheels, that object would need to go under some other part of the locomotive where it could exert lift. The three probable locomotive features that could be lifted would be the bottom of the pilot, the bottom of the truck frame, or the bottom of the mainframe side sill. In this crash, I would rule out the latter because it is too high. Whatever the locomotive rides up upon is going to get crushed considerably before it becomes dense enough to lift the locomotive. Something big and dense like a bulldozer or gravel truck could possible wedge under the side sill, but not a car.
Other than riding up on an obstruction, a locomotive could severely pitch to one side in a crash just in reaction to the mass of the obstruction. But I cannot see this happening with an automobile and its 2-ton mass. I could see it happening with bulldozer, gravel truck, or other locomotive being struck.
So I conclude that the car hit in this crash was caught and rolled under either the pilot or the lead truck side frame, and this action is what caused the locomotive to roll to one side upon impact. It would be interesting to see the report in order to confirm that this happened.
Hi everyone my name is Rodney and I have been involved in 2 accdents while running, I still see both of them when I sleep at times I was relived of the train each time, thelast one the whole town was blocked for 3 hours after we were cleared the roadforeman of engines had a trainmaster pick him up after I got the train clear of town. I had 3 days of each time for trauma.
Rodney
Yes the "action" is over done. Hitting someone is a horrible incident, but I've never experienced such violent motion.
As to the inaction of the Officer. Today, had that "Officer" not responded to the scene, he would have gotten an "impolite" call from the STO or Assistant DM, if not the Division Manager himself. The Officer on Scene needs to collect crew statements, retrieve the locomotive download, protect Company Property, deal with the "Press", and shield the train crew from Local Law Enforcement. Not all LEOs are as understanding as those portrayed here. Many times they want to apply highway laws to the train crews, which they cannot. Train crews involved in such incidents fall under FRA rules.
Also today, had the crew requested to be marked off "Critical Incident", the trainmaster would not be able to refuse. The crew would be off, and he'd have to find another crew. Company guidelines also encourage employees to not say anything other then your Name, and ID until a Company Officer arrives on scene.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
nbrodar wrote:Yes the "action" is over done. Hitting someone is a horrible incident, but I've never experienced such violent motion. As to the inaction of the Officer. Today, had that "Officer" not responded to the scene, he would have gotten an "impolite" call from the STO or Assistant DM, if not the Division Manager himself. The Officer on Scene needs to collect crew statements, retrieve the locomotive download, protect Company Property, deal with the "Press", and shield the train crew from Local Law Enforcement. Not all LEOs are as understanding as those portrayed here. Many times they want to apply highway laws to the train crews, which they cannot. Train crews involved in such incidents fall under FRA rules.Also today, had the crew requested to be marked off "Critical Incident", the trainmaster would not be able to refuse. The crew would be off, and he'd have to find another crew. Company guidelines also encourage employees to not say anything other then your Name, and ID until a Company Officer arrives on scene. Nick
You are correct, I meant company ID.
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