Double Stacks

[Anonymous]

You rent out a container at a time, then pay the RR a linehaul rate to move it for you. The "retail" rate for most containers starts at $15 per day (for the period that you have the on the street), but during peak season, they set up the cost to escalate such that they might cost $15/day for the first 5 days, then it goes up to $50/day for the next 5, then $100 per day after that. Pretty pricy.

The RR linehauls differ considerable and tend to follow lines of supply and demand. For instance, demand for space on a stack train is high out of So. California (LA) so prices are higher. The same applies to shipments in domestic containers (48' or 53') and/or trailers from Chicago going East to New England or New Jersey / NY. These are called "Head-Haul" markets. However, going in the opposite direction ( NY to Chicago) is called a "Back-Haul" lane and you get a cheaper rate because there is more equipment than freight. On a national basis, you could expect to pay an intermodal company around a buck-a-mile to move your box. Again, its more in some lanes, less in others and hits that average.

If you have a product that you can put into a 20', 40' or 45' steamship box, and if you can load an empty back to a port area, you'll get a real deal. This works well for products that are heavy, but not bulky.

[Anonymous]

How much does renting out a Double Stack cost?

[Willy2]

Thank you all for the answers and the stories of containers lost at sea!

Willy

[DTomajko]

I have not heard of a loaded double-stack overturning but I do know that the NS "SIMS" computer program keeps track of container weights to prevent overloading the gross weight rating of a car.Also,an empty container is never placed under a loaded one. If it isn't possible to place a box properly in a train,then it will be left behind for the next train,though with a diversity of units to load it is a rare occurance. Also,after the top container is placed,the IBC or "bullet" handle has to be turned 90 degrees to lock the containers together. The only stack car without bullets are the early Gunderson cars with the tall ends,adjustable paddles move to accomadate 40' to 48' containers on top with no IBC's used. A few years back,empty EMP & NACS containers on the top of a stack with the bullets unlocked blew off in Indiana on a NS train. Luckily they landed in a cornfield instead of a nearby road crossing. In the Pittsburgh Intermodal Terminal,depending where in the yard the empty 48 & 53 footers are stacked,the top ones can and have blown off due to high winds. By the way,twistlocks are the devices that hold containers to their chassis,20 footers on all 4 corners and 40 foot or longer on the rear positions only. 40 foot or longer boxes use index pins that engage the front lower castings to lock onto the chassis.Good luck and stay safe.

[rrnut282]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....I do seem to remember hearing of rubber duckies being seen in different parts of the world in the sea....etc...Wonder if that is from the same container story...?

The version I heard is it was a container full of athletic shoes (nike?) that went overboard. The shoes floated for about 3 years and climatologists used their movement to track changes in ocean surface currents! But that's the stuff of urban legends, isn't it?[^]

[Modelcar]

....And some of them didn't even reach port...! No question...The sea and wind is a powerful arm of nature. Rode out a storm on the north Pacific for over a week and had to have life lines on main deck to move one place to another...Enough for me.

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dblstack
...
When steamship boxes are on a ship, they get IBC's but I've also seen close up photos that showed cables criss-crossed on the end of the box holding them down to the box below. Saw this on a photo of one of the big Maersk boats. Looks closely at the containers on the front row of the ship shown on this link. The containers on the lower-right of the front row have an X visible on them. That's the cables tieing them together. They kind of look like come-alongs (cable winches). http://www.shipphotos.co.uk/pages/laloire.htm

Right you are -- there are cable lashings as well as the IBCs or equivalent.. As Erik notes, heavy seas (whether from the perfect storm or not!) have a terrfic impact on a ship. There are no transatlantic liners in the winter any more (pity -- I hate flying!) -- but the ocean (or, for that matter, the Great Lakes) has truly awesome power in any storm, and the cables are needed to try to hold things together -- but, friends, nothing made by man can withstand the sea all the time. Even the great liners reached port pretty badly battered now and then.

[Anonymous]

If you ever saw the movie "The Perfect Storm" you got to see the results of heavy seas on a container ship. I read somewhere that the worst example of lost containers during a storm was 300+ containers that went overboard, doing some serious damage to the ship as well as causing some real navigation hazards. A lot of the containers float, and can do so for years. I understand that a floating container just under the surface of the water can do a lot of damage to a boat or ship, and that they are almost impossible to detect.

To get back to railroading, though... I wonder if there are special rules governing hazardous materials in containers? Are they required to be placarded and isolated from non hazardous materials on intermodal trains the way some HAZMAT loads are isolated on mixed freights (read in TRAINS one month where an empty car had to precede and follow a HAZMAT load)?

Erik

[Anonymous]

The IBC's are small metal devices (sometimes called Twist-Locks also). The first container is loaded into the bottom position in a stack car, then the IBC's are placed into the holes on the 4 cornes of the roof of the bottom box. The second box is set on top and the IBC's snap into the holes in the bottom of the top box. Kind of like snapping 2 Legos together.

When steamship boxes are on a ship, they get IBC's but I've also seen close up photos that showed cables criss-crossed on the end of the box holding them down to the box below. Saw this on a photo of one of the big Maersk boats. Looks closely at the containers on the front row of the ship shown on this link. The containers on the lower-right of the front row have an X visible on them. That's the cables tieing them together. They kind of look like come-alongs (cable winches). http://www.shipphotos.co.uk/pages/laloire.htm

[tree68]

Some of them may be caught in an area of the Pacific that has developed a reputation for hanging onto its trash. Don't recall the specifics, but it's like a big (think many miles), lazy whirlpool, and the trash just keeps going round and round.

[Anonymous]

According to USAToday the whole ship was lost!! The ducks swim the oceans for 11 years.

Here's the link....
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-07-31-edit_x.htm

[Modelcar]

....I do seem to remember hearing of rubber duckies being seen in different parts of the world in the sea....etc...Wonder if that is from the same container story...?

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE:
...On the subject of connectors for containers especially the way they stack them up on ship decks.....Are they all fastened together with the locks there...? Have wondered about that for a long time.

Sort of a similar question, are the containers locked, or do they just have latches on them?

How easy is it to open one of those things, when you arn't supposed to be?

The IBCs (InterBoxConnectors) are used to keep the containers hooked together -- and they are supposed to be used at sea, too, but they aren't always -- and now and again a few containers will go overboard[xx(]. I seem to recall a load of rubber duckies [:p] which did that a few years back in the Pacific.[:D]
As to are the containers locked -- they're supposed to be, if they aren't empty. They usually are. How easy is it to open one? Depends on what kind of bolt cutters or torch you've got[:D]. Don't do it. The railroad cops don't have much sense of humour with that sort of thing, and if it's a container in bond (Customs sealed) those guys have no sense of humour at all![:D]

observation or experience? [8)]

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

QUOTE:
...On the subject of connectors for containers especially the way they stack them up on ship decks.....Are they all fastened together with the locks there...? Have wondered about that for a long time.

Sort of a similar question, are the containers locked, or do they just have latches on them?

How easy is it to open one of those things, when you arn't supposed to be?

The IBCs (InterBoxConnectors) are used to keep the containers hooked together -- and they are supposed to be used at sea, too, but they aren't always -- and now and again a few containers will go overboard[xx(]. I seem to recall a load of rubber duckies [:p] which did that a few years back in the Pacific.[:D]
As to are the containers locked -- they're supposed to be, if they aren't empty. They usually are. How easy is it to open one? Depends on what kind of bolt cutters or torch you've got[:D]. Don't do it. The railroad cops don't have much sense of humour with that sort of thing, and if it's a container in bond (Customs sealed) those guys have no sense of humour at all![:D]

[TH&B]

I saw a derailment apparently caused by an IBC on the rail caught in the mudrail at a yard.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
...On the subject of connectors for containers especially the way they stack them up on ship decks.....Are they all fastened together with the locks there...? Have wondered about that for a long time.

Sort of a similar question, are the containers locked, or do they just have latches on them?

How easy is it to open one of those things, when you arn't supposed to be?

[Modelcar]

...On the subject of connectors for containers especially the way they stack them up on ship decks.....Are they all fastened together with the locks there...? Have wondered about that for a long time.

[mudchicken]

And they are all connected w/ IBC's.....The car will roll the rail over by virtue of lateral force sooner than the car will tip over....



IBC= Inter Box Connector (very old thread in here somewhere about those rascals) Use one as a doorstop in my office......

[Anonymous]

Because double stacks sit in wells, the center of gravity is kept lower which helps prevent rolling over.

[Willy2]

How do the railroads keep the double stack container cars from tipping over on curves? Has anyone ever seen it happen?
Thanks,
Willy