Wind and rail traffic....

[Modelcar]

....We have beautiful blue skies today in central Indiana but terrific wind and wind gusts. I would guess Tripple Crown and high cube box cars may be in jeopardy running the rails today in this area, especially if going perpendicular to the wind. How about that....how much danger is such traffic when winds are 50 mph and perhaps some areas higher in gusts....? [8D]

[jchnhtfd]

I know both CP and CN have had cars blown over now and again on the prairie lines... very embarassing[:(]. Not so much loads, but things like empty double stacked containers, empty maximum height box cars and the like. Oddly less of a problem at track speed, but it you get down to the right slow speed, and the cars get rocking anyway... oops.[:D]

[Mookie]

Which brings up a question. Just dawned on me that all those container trains and double stacks I see - may not all be full of goods. Do they mix empties in with the full ones. Do they only ship the full ones together and only ship back the empties all together? (like a coal train?) Or do they do like trucks - ship a commodity out in a container and then use that container to ship something back?

Mookie

[mudchicken]

As hard as they try to ship loads both ways, the load imbalance usually causes empty "sea-cans" to pile up somewhere. More loads are coming in from Asia than go out currently. Container companies will slash rates on backhauls just to avoid moving empty containers or railcars. The game in the intermodal yards is to minimize the empties. Whole trains full of empty containers is rare, but it does happen when materials need to be repositioned - the same goes for chassis. It is common to fill out a train with empty chassis and containers going back to a port so that the empties can be rounded-up in one spot.

[Modelcar]

....Not thinking of wind for the moment....Jen, did you get rid of all the ice and snow you spoke of several weeks ago...? Just noticed today...around our house we have tulips up about 3 to 4" and some buds coming out on some trees....SPRING is pushing itself forward...!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Not thinking of wind for the moment....Jen, did you get rid of all the ice and snow you spoke of several weeks ago...? Just noticed today...around our house we have tulips up about 3 to 4" and some buds coming out on some trees....SPRING is pushing itself forward...!

Well, we have had 2 days of rain - not great amounts - just a nice spring rain - about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Snow stayed west of us and storm went around us. We are only in the 30's right now, but the robins are out there and tomorrow promises to be much nicer. Rain took care of all the snow. Keeping my figures crossed, since April is one of our most unpredictable months - the rest of the state has tornados and we have - snow!
Some of our biggest snowfalls come during the spring! Will go look for flowers tomorrow! Next to the train tracks....[:D]

[mudchicken]

While you are out "watching", please let us know how busy the local gendarmes are at BNSF's 17th & Holdrege crossing this weekend handing out tickets for cheating on the gates at the entrance to the fairgrounds.[;)][;)][;)]

[Mookie]

none, zip nada - they will be busy off investigating other items and won't be wanting to tangle with the BasketBall Fans! We will even leave town to go have breakfast rather than face the crowds! Check with me after next week and Boy's State! [xx(]

[mudchicken]

Oh well, Daily Nebraskan claims they (UNL, BNSF & city cops) will be there to prevent somebody trying to prove Darwin's law about natural pre-selection by example. Would be curious to see if there is some venting about this on Monday by those donating $200 a pop to the city coffers.

[Modelcar]

....P S: Don't tell anyone as they might get peeved but we were in the high 60's today..!

[Anonymous]

On the UP (old C&NW) line over the Kate Shelley Bridge near Ames Iowa, they've had equipment blown off of the bridge by wind. See pic of the bridge from the link below. I got to visit the UP Dispatch center a few years ago (The Harriman Center) in Omaha and stood behind the dispatcher for this district for a while. On his computer screen, where the bridge would be on the map, there is a wind-speed readout. I don't recall what the max allowable is, but I've seen photos of trailers and containers laying in the valley below the bridge.
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/photos/spectrai/95-20.shtml

The BNSF has the same problem on some of their bridges in the Montana Rockies where the bridge spans a valley and the wind funnels into the valley. See pic att. http://www.drydentidbits.com/montana/marias2000/bnsf_twomedicine.jpg
************************
In regard to your question about mixing loads and empty containers/ trailers on a given train, the answer is yes the RR's do mix them, but there are tendencies.

In general, if a 40'-45' steamship box is heading toward water (ie. going to Ports of LA, Seattle, Oakland, NJ), there is a greater probability that its an empty repositioning move. Some do get loaded by companies like ESI (Express Systems Intermodal) but many, many move empty. If you can load them for the steamship line, you get a deep discount. [2c]

For domestic equipment, since the East is a bigger consumer market than a production market, there is a natural imbalance. For instance, many more loads go into Metro NY / NJ than come out of that market. So you'd tend to see more empty repo moves going back to Chicago. Some get loaded out of that market, many don't. Exact same applies to Florida. Loads in, empties out.

Also, because of imports, LA tends to be much heavier outbound than inbound. So you'll see empties going into LA, but you will never see an empty rail out.

When the RR's load trains, there are several key things that they do.
1st, loads get priority for space on the train vs. empties
2nd, on stack cars, loads go on the bottom, empties on top (keep the center of gravity down.)
3rds, loads go on the front of the train, empties more toward the back. If you're too light on the front and heavy on the back, you can 'stringline' the cars on the front. What happens is that as you go around a curve, the force of the engines on the front and the weight of the heavy cars on the back would cause the light-weight empties at the front of the train to pull off of the track toward the inside of the curve. If you're a modeler, you've probably had that happen. You end up with everything tipped on its side on the inside of the curve.
4th, If its a mixed TOFC / COFC train, containers toward the front, trailers toward the back. Same reason as #3.

Hope that helps.
Stack

[overall]

When we had the great tornado of 1998 in Nashville, I saw several cars blown over on their sides at the Church Street Overpass. Quite a sight.

George

[edblysard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....P S: Don't tell anyone as they might get peeved but we were in the high 60's today..!

Clear blue skies,78 degrees, 51% humidity, 0 rain, and expected to be this way till next friday,
brisket on the barbie....corn on the cob, baked beans, and sliced alavacodos....
Ed[:D]

[Soo2610]

And to think that our poor newly emerged crocuses and tulips have to compete with snow flurries for the next couple of days!

[Anonymous]

I do know of at least one railhead container yard that handles only empties. All the cranes and lifts are of lighter construction because they only ever lift empties, and sometimes entire trains are built out of there.

[Modelcar]

.....Now Ed don't get carried away...especially with that food. Baked beans sound good. Also corn on the cob.

[mvlandsw]

D&RGW placed some old hoppers filled with rock next to the main track to serve as a wind break where cars had been blown off the track west of Denver. CSX had some cars blown off around Fostoria, Ohio. I'm not sure if that was just high winds or a tornado.

[edblysard]

Have had high winds blow cars back up the switching lead several times.
With the thunderstorms we get down here, it isnt unusual for empty three bay hoppers or bulkhead flats to come wandering back as quickly as we kicked them in there.
Ed

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Oh well, Daily Nebraskan claims they (UNL, BNSF & city cops) will be there to prevent somebody trying to prove Darwin's law about natural pre-selection by example. Would be curious to see if there is some venting about this on Monday by those donating $200 a pop to the city coffers.

Do the fans in Colorado know you are sneaking a peek at the Rag? Are you trying to tell me you are a Newbraskin at heart? Aw big muddy - that is shore nice! Puts you in a whole new light on the dinner table! [C=:-)]

I haven't investigated the situation yet, but will ask around - but doubt there was a cop within 12 blocks of those tracks. They don't do anything about it on game days and there are actually more people around during that time! I just notice the train traffic is not as heavy through there when there are these big happenings. Maybe the railroad does its own policing - don't run trains at certain times. Maybe - it could happen Alice, Dorothy, Brittany? (la la land people)

Also - you must remember this is girls state - they are a tad more polite and smart than boy's state - that is where they will have problems. And spring break starts this Friday!

But hey - we can use the extra $ - state is poor - maybe I should help them! Let's see - Erics handcuffs, the Mookie Mobile Millie, Eric's badge, chocolate cake as a lure, Eric's gun - Matt to run them down - Eric needs to come here, the driver to back me up.....

Yep we could do it!

Moo

[tree68]

I'll bring by dad's old handcuffs (they still work fine). Got red lights and a siren on the truck - maybe nobody will notice it also says "Fire Chief..."

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I'll bring by dad's old handcuffs (they still work fine). Got red lights and a siren on the truck - maybe nobody will notice it also says "Fire Chief..."

This will be so much fun! [}:)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: [
Also, because of imports, LA tends to be much heavier outbound than inbound. So you'll see empties going into LA, but you will never see an empty rail out.

Stack

Last weekend I got stuck at a crossing waiting for a line of very empty container cars, no containers, just cars. It took 5 full minutes to pass at 50 mph. that was a Looooooong train.