Snowiest Mountain Pass?

[mloik]

Hello all,

A friend and I were wondering: what rail line over a mountain pass has the most snow on average? We were wondering about Donner Pass, and some of the ones in the northwest.

Thanks,
Michael

[mudchicken]

...fortunately Rollins Pass is no more, replaced by the Moffat Tunnel....it would take the cake...(if Mookie, Matt & Joe left any..)

The Canadians probably win this one by default, looking at April's TRAINS.....

[Anonymous]

Donner is pretty good. I suspect that Soldier Summit in Utah will be a good choice. Or the Syskyiou range in Oregon/California. Some of the snow removal Equiptment is larger than the house I live in. There is a Mountain pass 50 or so miles east of Seattle on I-90 (I think) as well as the Blue Mountains in East central Oregon.

But the one pass that I have to [bow] to is the awesome Saluda pass in Western North Carolina it does not snow much compared to the west but try keeping a 5000 ton train moving up grade in sleet and ice up a 4.6% grade.

[Big_Boy_4005]

They made the video about Donner!!! Very cool video too.

Of course snowfall varies from year to year, and location to location, but Donner is by far the most famous for it.

[Anonymous]

Donner Pass is probably the winner, though I'd want to see figures from Grandview Hill on the Alaska Railroad and the original line over Rogers Pass to be certain of that. Soldier Summit is near-desert and definitely not in the running. Siskiyou Summit is too low; mostly it just gets rain.

The key is not just total inches but moisture content: the closer to the Pacific Coast, the wetter it is; all of the inland passes are shadowed by coastal ranges to some extent. The Blue Mountains are very dry accordingly.

Other passes that CAN get very heavy snow include Stevens, Snoqualmie, and Stampede in Washington, and Cascade Summit in Oregon. But the three Washington Passes are quite low compared to Donner, so don't get the same total accumulation, and Cascade is shadowed by coastal ranges and not quite in the same pattern that Donner gets.

No Colorado pass counts; all too dry. Their problem was wind.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't it be Marias Pass?

[jchnhtfd]

I'd love to push for Rogers Pass -- it has almost everything else going for it (or against it, depending on whether you're watching the train or trying to get it over the hill!) -- but Mark's point is very well taken indeed -- and Rogers Pass is a bit far inland for the really awesome snow. It's got to be Donner...

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

...fortunately Rollins Pass is no more, replaced by the Moffat Tunnel....it would take the cake...(if Mookie, Matt & Joe left any..)

The Canadians probably win this one by default, looking at April's TRAINS.....

Rollins was a meanie. I have a book on the D&SL, and they didn't use fixed plows unless there was almost nothing around. They had two roteries for the 4% over Rollins and the Giants Ladder, and they were also shut down for several weeks of the winter most years while men used dynamite, picks and shovels to literally mine the snow from the right-of-way. Snow would get as deep at Corona as it does at Nordon. Both stations had (Corona) have (Nordon) snow sheds covering what is not in tunnels.

[Anonymous]

I have totally slept at the switch on the keyword "Snow" I feel embarrassed now. However, the Colorado passes really do not count. Donner stands supreme.

It was common practice never to send drivers who was raised anywhere east of Colorado onto I-70 past Denver in the snow season. Donner was another pass they would not send inexperience drivers. In fact you did not get to run Donner unless you lived in the rockies or has satisfied your company in your ability to run em.

Going up is easy. Anyone can do it. It's the getting down that is the problem. I do not envy the Engineer who has the job of moving his or her train down Donner in bad weather or winter.

I dont know if there is any railroad that uses Emigrant Pass and or the mountain passes between Spokane Wa and Missoula Mt. However these passes are quite striking to me. Emigrant in partictular. There, Pioneers had to lash ropes to a tree from a wagon (More ropes the better) let it down hill gently to the next tree and repeat. I think it is like 1000 feet or so straight down into valley below.

Another pass I consider a personal favorite is Techapchi I have been lucky in having good weather however it has good potentail for bad railroading.

Good luck and may your train arrive safe.

Lee

[Anonymous]

Between Spokane and Missoula, Fourth of July Pass had no RRs, but Lookout Pass on the ID/MT border did, with 4% grades no less. But it was an NP branch, not a main line, which is why we didn't see big mention of it in Trains. The Olympics and Cascades tend to soak up much of the snow and rain from storms coming off the Pacific, but weather systems often regain strength by the time they reach Lookout, dumping a foot or two a time. When weather is coming from the north, it's mostly cold and windy, and from the south it's more rain than snow. The book Railroads Through the Coeur d'Alenes has plenty of good photos, including winter shots, from the days when Lookout Pass was running.

[corwinda]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark W. Hemphill
Cascade is shadowed by coastal ranges and not quite in the same pattern that Donner gets.

Cascade is also significantly lower than Donner. (About 5000 feet summit elevation)

[CG9602]

During its' heyday, I would have to say that Rollins Pass would take the award running away. Right now, I'd have to say Donner Pass, or perhaps Tennesee Pass ( when it is in operation). Here's a question: does the highest line in the Andes, that one line that goes over 15,000 feet in Peru, get any snow? if so, how much?

[Anonymous]

Tennessee Pass never had major snowfall problems -- it's thoroughly shadowed by peaks around it, and protected from high winds, too. No rotary snowplow was used there in modern history, and the Russell Plow stationed at Minturn never turned a wheel most winters.

There is no inland mountain pass used by a railroad in North America with snowfall that matches the Pacific Coast passes, except perhaps Rogers Pass, either in total accumulation or in moisture content, because the weather pattern of the Northern Hemisphere is west to east and systems begin precipitating their moisture upon encountering the first uplift. That's why the Great Basin is a desert. What made Rollins Pass difficult, as I talked about in the April issue, was due to its great exposure above timberline, its frequent high winds, its extreme altitude, and its 4% grades.

[jeaton]

I'd have to go with Donner, from what I've read. Don't they have the most sheds? Another question, do they still use rotary plows on Donner? Thinking about the Amtrak derailment in January, I was wondering if just shoving the snow aside with spreaders doesn't raise the potential for derailments on the adjacent track.

[Anonymous]

Jay:

Rotaries are used on Donner in heavy-snow years. In the last 30 years, this averages about once ever fou-six years.

The first line of defense (other than the plow pilot of a locomotive), is the flanger, which picks the snow and ice out from between the track and pushes it away from the field sides of the rails a few feet.

Second line of defense is the spreader, which has extendable wings. Usually the practice is to run one down the inside track, depositing the snow on the outside track, followed shortly by a second on the outside track, depositing the snow over the side of the hill. As you point out, you can't run a train down a track on which you've just dumped three extra feet of packed heavy snow!

In really heavy snows that the spreaders can't handle, then the rotaries are used.

The key in all snow fighting is to have some place to put the snow. A spreader is only good up to about 8 feet of depth, and can only pu***he snow about 15-20 feet away from the center line. If the snow keeps falling, you eventually run out of places for the spreader to pu***he snow, and have to use a rotary. The alternative to the rotary is the dozer; the Alaska Railroad, the other heavy-snow operator, through the Kenai Mountains between Portage and Seward, uses Caterpillar D7s. This works for them because their traffic is so thin.

[Anonymous]

I'd have to say Donner pass also, I've been in alot of storms over this pass on I-80 & when it snows......it snows! Also on a clear day you can see the snowsheds to the south, It's neat to see the trains working this area. PS; If you want to see a good video about this pass & its snow removal equipment in action Pentrex has a very nice video called -" Across Donner Summit, Southern Pacific. 2hrs. with audio naration.

[Anonymous]

I would say the Roger Pass up here in BC

[broncoman]

Would have to think that Donner would be the toughest.
I didn't know about the whole "City of San Francisco incident" until the internal newspaper that is passed around by my employer showed pictures of the snowcats they lent to SP trying to make it to the stuck train. Don't know if many of you have been in a snowcat, but if they have trouble getting somewhere in the snow its pretty hopeless. While that was a noticable occurance, it was not a record year for snow fall or water content, I think SP just got caught with their pants down.