Railfan Etiquette

[Anonymous]

I've read through many of the posts here and may be asking for a thread repeat. I'd like to ask the railroad pros here a couple of questions- 1) In the wake of 9/11 and the Transportation Security Act, have your railroads asked you to do anything differently in terms of security and railfans? 2) Who can we ask for permission to take pictures and get guidelines on what's OK and what's not? (I'm not going to submit photos to TRAINS that would embarass the railroad... or cause loss of face) 3) Other than the obvious common sense rules- don't stand in the middle of the track to take a picture of an oncoming train, don't go onto railroad property without asking permission, and don't climb on equipment- what other general rules of thumb will help make us good neighbors rather than barely tolerated *&$%^ foamers?

I for one carry a badge and gun and ID myself as a cop- which is a distinct advantage over your average John or Jane Doe that happens to like trains as much as I do.

Erik

[mudchicken]

Walk softy. Leave only footprints. Railfan from the safety public rights of way.

[Mookie]

psst Erik - wanna trade your badge for 5 really red stars?

Mookie.....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

psst Erik - wanna trade your badge for 5 really red stars?

Mookie.....

and let one who is beloved on these forums suffer the slings and arrows of a normally hostile public? That would be so wrong....

[Mookie]

Drat.....

[dharmon]

she really only wanted the gun and handcuffs anyway.....

[cherokee woman]

And she'd probably use them on some of us on the forum!

[Mookie]

ooo - ideas!

[dharmon]

Uhh Ohh ....looks like I hear someone calling me......I'll just be leaving now, out this side door.......

Mudchicken.....she's got a gun.....don't be dinner......

[cherokee woman]

Mook, give me a phone call sometime, and maybe we can dream up a few good ideas!

[Mikeygaw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cherokee woman

Mook, give me a phone call sometime, and maybe we can dream up a few good ideas!

uh oh... looks like us guys are gonna be in some real deep doo doo...

[coalminer3]

As Moe once said to Curly, "Where's your Emily Post?"

Sorry I couldn't resist........

work safe

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

she really only wanted the gun and handcuffs anyway.....

All I can respond to that is a one word quip from Harvey Korman in "Blazing Saddles" that also is what happens to rail on a really hot day.......won't repeat it and have no interest in being dirtchicken salad for a well fed Nebraska kittykat......[:D][:D][:D]

[rrnut282]

Tell driver to duck and run for cover

[edblysard]

Mookie, Aimee says she can lend you her leg shackles, if you want...
erik,
You touched base on most of the necessary parts of etiquette,
and most of the railroads have asked the train crews to report any suspicious activity...which leaves a lot of discretion to the crews who and what to report.
If it is obvious that they guy with the camera is a fan, most of us dont bother them.

As for permission, try approaching the railroad cops of the road you want to shoot photos of, they might be able to help you out, after all, badges take care of badges.
If nothing else, write the superintendent of that division.
The worst he can say is no, which means you have to stay on public property.

Take care,
Ed

[JoeKoh]

Just take pics and leave footprints.report anything suspicious to the local or rr cops if you have their #.And to mookie a six shooter is a package of chocolate cupcakes from the store.
stay safe(run matt)
Joe

[Anonymous]

I always try to use the big "R", Respect.
Respect the machines, respect the people and respect the job.
I don't trespass, I ask permission from rr personnel to go near any rr property or equipment, and I always remember that the people driving the trains I like to watch so much are working. I try not to do anything that will interfere with them doing their job.

Jeff

PS Oh yeah, always smile and wave![:D]

[espeefoamer]

Mookie, your'e getting me excited.[}:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Mookie, your'e getting me excited.[}:)]

oh Fiddlesticks, he said it before me...

whos got the handcuffs and gun as we speak right now?

here's where to send them.....
[}:)]

naaa wait, keep the gun!

[}:)][}:)][}:)]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

Mookie, your'e getting me excited.[}:)]

SP we gotta talk about getting you a life....

[Mookie]

I have the mirror - Looking for the handcuffs and don't send the gun - I don't have the strength to pick it up.

My 1st husband would be on Alert in the Air Force overnight , so he would leave his rifle in the closet for me for protection. The firing pin (that's what he said it was) was in my jewelry box and the bullets were on a shelf in a different closet. Guess he wanted me to club someone - except I could hardly pick up the darn thing. He didn't want me to shoot myself in the foot!

My 2nd husband (the driver) has something in the closet resembling a shotgun/rifle, the shells are in his jewelry box and he too told me if I needed protection while he was gone for a week fishing....well you get the idea. Oh and "Don't shoot yourself in the foot" as he went out the door.

Guess I am the weaker sex.

[rrnut282]

Kevin you don't want to give your GF the handcuffs because she might not let you go. You'll won't be sent to the doghouse, you'll be attached![:o)]

[Anonymous]

My Friend.. that is true.

I was thinking of attaching the handcuffs to her though....

The following sentnace was not rated G and therfore omitted. [:D]

[Anonymous]

Didn't know there was such a thing as "Railfan Ettiquette". Thought that was some sort of oxymoron...lol...

LC

[Anonymous]

Come on everyone--we've had this discussion as many times as mookie has posts (by the way, has she ever posted anything actually about railroads [:)]?)

Dear Kevin,
Who is the new Prime Minister of Canada--I forgot his name and it's really getting to me. I know he used to own a trucking business and I think that his first name is Paul. I'll try to remember in the future.

See you around the forum,
Daniel

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

she really only wanted the gun and handcuffs anyway.....

Reminds me of a quote:

Police Officer: Can I see your licence?
Roger Miller: Can I shoot your gun?

---------------------

As far as etiquette: read that article in trains "Is being railfan un-American." I thought it was stupid. I've never seen more parnoia as that. And it missed the whole point. Railfans are a lot more patriotic than a lot of other people. Most railfans respect property, don't trespass, don't vandalize, don't sabatoge, don't disrupt railroads. Of course there are some that do, but more than likely because they're fools not because that want to harm someone or something. I mean after they're fans, right? They're pro-railroads.

On the other hand you've got turkeys who vandalize, spay paint, trespass, use the tracks as sidewalks, play chicken with trains, removes spikes and rails, and try to beat trains to and through the crossings. Are these fans? Do they take pictures? Do they buy the magazines, books, and tapes? Do they have a model railroad? No. Show me a railfan that derails trains on purpose and I'll show you a terrorist (i.e. that railfan).

Railfans help watch out for the railroads. There are railfans everywhere watching out for their railroads and they've got their usually spots. How do think a terrorist is going to attack a railroad when you've got all these railfans running around out there with cameras and notepads who've probably got many miles of track memorized and how frequently the trains roll through and what types they are and a model of it all in the home? The police and railroads should consider the railfan a great asset in assistance into an investigation because of their observations. They may remeber what car or truck was seen where ever and so-and-so was observed at this location at such-and-such time and it looked suspicous because... Think about someone who has already got an area memorized and all the regular patterns of traffic and who lives where and what's normal versus what's out of the ordinary. I've got my area pretty well memorized I can tell you with 80% accuracy when something is out of the ordinary. And if I hadn't been a railfan as long as I have I probably wouldn't have been there at the tracks to stop those kids from playing chicken with the train. Who knows what would've happened. They could've been run over or the train could've derailed going into emergency. But I couldn't be there to stop someone from getting hit just months later at 1:00 AM only hundreds of yards from where those kids where.

Then on these forums there was something about waving at trains can put you in jail. I don't know if that was offical railroad policy or someone was just spreading a rumor, but it was still stupid. The idea was to punish someone for all the train robberies taking place. If you, the railfan, wave at a train that had been tapered with by vandals and theives you were to be considered no better than them, was my understanding, and therefore could be arrested and prosecuted. Well considering you hadn't committed a crime how could you be arrested and prosecuted? It was either the railroad's way of lashing out at railfans, or was an ex-railfan venting his frustration at the railroads from shooing him away from their property. Either way I don't think the railroads would want to risk a public relations nightmare and court battles by arresting every railfan waving at their train taking pictures.

I've picked up an attitude on these forums, and if you go back and look at some of the very first posts ever made here way back in 2000 or 2001, back at the very last posts on the last pages here, you'll see some questions about "what do you railroaders think of us railfans" and the general answers where the railfans get made fun of a lot and some workers hate them. They won't wave back and will make snide remarks when they see them. Others will always wave back. I thinks it's kinda 50% chance a railfan will come across either a plesant railroad employee or a resentful one.

---

[#offtopic]

(This part is going to get a little off topic, but loosly related to the railfan subject. )

And then I've always wondered what the corporate attitude is toward railfans. If I'm correct most railroad employees that visit the forums are the ones that drive the trains, the conductors, yard workers, and a few dispatchers. When a railfan is upset with a certain railroad it's mainly because they feel that railroad doesn't care about the railfan. They're not going to paint the locos or freight cars to the fan's liking, they gobble up smaller railroads, merge, paint over fallen flags, run off railfans, and licence anything with their logo on it. But who do you blame? The president? The chairman? The managers? The railroad becomes a faceless entity in the eyes of a railroad sometimes. I guess Trains Magazine probably has lots of articles naming so-and-so in conjunction with such-and-such project, but I couldn't name one off the top of my head with out digging into all my past issues. It'd be interesting to see an article on how the corporate side of today's railroad works, what all the positions are, who is responsible for doing what if one hasn't already been done yet, or for a long time. How do railroads make decisions about the direction of their company? How are they organized and managed? How do they decide when to build and when to abandon? When to buy and when to sell? And how are contracts are negotiated? And who decides those paint schemes?

I can read about robber barrons all day in history books, and railroads wouldn't be where they are today without them, but I want to know about what goes on now.

---

Back on topic.

Wow. A few simple thoughts I had turned into an essay. I guess what I'd like to know is if these anti-raifan polices are coming from somewhere directly from the corporate headquarters or is it coming from regional offices? Or is all made up? I, for one, being in Kansas, have not seen all supposed security increase everyone's been talking about. Is it all back east where's it's taking place or am I missing something? Is this an opportunity get back at railfans or is a real security threat or is it all rumors? (that last question will probably rile somebody up, but it's hard to tell when I don't see it out here.)

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Come on everyone--we've had this discussion as many times as mookie has posts (by the way, has she ever posted anything actually about railroads [:)]?)

Dear Kevin,
Who is the new Prime Minister of Canada--I forgot his name and it's really getting to me. I know he used to own a trucking business and I think that his first name is Paul. I'll try to remember in the future.

See you around the forum,
Daniel

Hey - young whippersnapper! Mookie has pinned more than one persons ears back for a statement like that. She reads Trains Magazine and Classic Trains from cover to cover, goes to watch trains at least once a week and has been known to discuss trains a time or two - even with the big guy - Mark Hemphill. While she isn't the world's brightest crayon on trains, she does want to learn and tries very hard to remember all the different things she is taught. And she is doing it as a senior citizen!

Apology accepted.

Mookie

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Come on everyone--we've had this discussion as many times as mookie has posts (by the way, has she ever posted anything actually about railroads [:)]?)

Dear Kevin,
Who is the new Prime Minister of Canada--I forgot his name and it's really getting to me. I know he used to own a trucking business and I think that his first name is Paul. I'll try to remember in the future.

See you around the forum,
Daniel
Dan
the answer is Paul Martin for the prime minister for our neighbors to the north.
please
stay safe
joe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Come on everyone--we've had this discussion as many times as mookie has posts (by the way, has she ever posted anything actually about railroads [:)]?)

Dear Kevin,
Who is the new Prime Minister of Canada--I forgot his name and it's really getting to me. I know he used to own a trucking business and I think that his first name is Paul. I'll try to remember in the future.

See you around the forum,
Daniel

I would suggest that before firing the weapon, you a) read the directons and b) clear your range. I would have to preume that you were kidding around with that remark. If not, go to "search the forums" type in 'Mookie' and see how many posts she has started, most of which have something to do with trains.

If you want to bash someone for posting off topic..I would be the one your looking for.....I'll be your huckleberry...

[edblysard]

First, you need a bigger gun...lots bigger....
Second, what doesknowing who the Prime Minister of Canada is have to do with trains?
Third, you did note the five red stars under Mookie?
Last, Dan, I got your back...
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Come on everyone--we've had this discussion as many times as mookie has posts (by the way, has she ever posted anything actually about railroads [:)]?)

Dear Kevin,
Who is the new Prime Minister of Canada--I forgot his name and it's really getting to me. I know he used to own a trucking business and I think that his first name is Paul. I'll try to remember in the future.

See you around the forum,
Daniel