Do-si-do and Sashay with Da Mook!

[Mookie]

We must tone this down a little and not get too technical - most of us know why - (da Mook has trouble grasping techo-speak). Shay engines. They look fascinating in pictures. So we will start with a couple of questions (yes I could look it up on the web and read books, but you are so much more interesting............[:I]

Why not regular wheels like the first locomotives - round and on the track with drivers. I can't get a good enough picture to really see how the shay's wheels really look up close and personal, but maybe a very simple description will help. Was this just an oddity in the world of trains or a specific reason for them to be built?

Remember - KISS [:X]

Mookie

[JoeKoh]

Sister Mook
the shay had geared wheels because they were used in logging railroads.A lot of grades to climb and a lot of tight curves to go around the mountains where the trees were.
hope this helps
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Very steep grades ( 5 to 6% ). The top speed of a Shay is about 18 mph. They're not very fast but they have a heck of a lot of torque.

[Mookie]

That helps - would it be impossible to explain how they were set up in simple terms? - The wheels that is...

[Anonymous]

Do they slip on the steep grades? Even if they are geared the rails are smooth?

[Modelcar]

I for sure am not an expert on Shays....but for you Jen and this conversation.....The Shay had several vertical mounted cylinders / pistons...[that do the same job of powering as the ones you are familiar with being horzonally at the front and sides of normal steam engines...] The piston rods were positioned straight down and connected to a crankshaft that was mounted parallel to the rail and along side the driving wheels and had a gear that meshed with one to drive each wheel.....The wheels were small and that and the grearing arrangement accomplished the great amount of torque that was put out by the engine hence, it could haul the heavy loads and negotiate the steep grades that was it's work envionment.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

I for sure am not an expert on Shays....but for you Jen and this conversation.....The Shay had several vertical mounted cylinders / pistons...[that do the same job of powering as the ones you are familiar with being horzonally at the front and sides of normal steam engines...] The piston rods were positioned straight down and connected to a crankshaft that was mounted parallel to the rail and along side the driving wheels and had a gear that meshed with one to drive each wheel.....The wheels were small and that and the grearing arrangement accomplished the great amount of torque that was put out by the engine hence, it could haul the heavy loads and negotiate the steep grades that was it's work envionment.

That was easy and makes sense. Thank you sir!

[Modelcar]

...Pleased to be of some help.

[CShaveRR]

I wi***here were a video site I could direct you to...those engines are something else. Years ago I was able to ride behind Shays and other geared locomotives on one of the Cass (West Virginia) Scenic Railroad's Railfan Weekends (they still hold them, but not all of the tracks I rode on are there anymore). Grades of 5-6 percent are nothing for these creatures; I'm sure that the grade near the top of Bald Knob was more like 8-9%, and watching--and listening to--those things struggle on that grade was unforgettable.

All of the wheels were drivers, including those under the tender. There were versions with two, three, or four trucks. The engines themselves weren't articulated, but the drive rods were, and they could negotiate some pretty sharp curves. Another distinctive feature of the Shay is that if you look at one from the front, the boiler is off to the right (actually the left side of the engine), since all of the cylinders are on the engineer's side.

Some major railroads, including Western Maryland and the C&O, operated Shays at one time or another. In fact, WM had the last--and biggest--Shay built, in 1945. That engine's one of those now at Cass, and I believe it's in running order.

[Anonymous]

Mookie [:D]

Shucks, I thought I was finally going to be able to use some of my square dance moves that I learned in my college Folk and Square Dance Class. The class was fun. I made an A. lol [;)]

[Mookie]

We used to square dance in grade school and except for my partner - it was so fun! (He was a dork!)

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

I wi***here were a video site I could direct you to...those engines are something else. Years ago I was able to ride behind Shays and other geared locomotives on one of the Cass (West Virginia) Scenic Railroad's Railfan Weekends (they still hold them, but not all of the tracks I rode on are there anymore). Grades of 5-6 percent are nothing for these creatures; I'm sure that the grade near the top of Bald Knob was more like 8-9%, and watching--and listening to--those things struggle on that grade was unforgettable.

All of the wheels were drivers, including those under the tender. There were versions with two, three, or four trucks. The engines themselves weren't articulated, but the drive rods were, and they could negotiate some pretty sharp curves. Another distinctive feature of the Shay is that if you look at one from the front, the boiler is off to the right (actually the left side of the engine), since all of the cylinders are on the engineer's side.

Some major railroads, including Western Maryland and the C&O, operated Shays at one time or another. In fact, WM had the last--and biggest--Shay built, in 1945. That engine's one of those now at Cass, and I believe it's in running order.

Thanx for info -that's very interesting. Well, maybe I should do some hunting for some pictures or books on Shays. Will give me something to do in all that spare time I have!

[vsmith]

Mookie, ah a subject of tremendous interest by me also,

Shays, and their cousins the Hiesler and the Climax were all gear driven engines design for heavy pulling on poorly graded ROW's. They were invesnted for logging lines , they are not fast by any measure 12mph seams to be a maximum speed but even at slow speeds they sound like an express train at 60mph. The smaller wheels and multiple high pressure cylinders tied together with drive axles and meshed gears created tremendous power and grip, hence the pulling power and billygoat climbing capacities.

For everything you ever wanted to know about these geared wonders,Try this link: www.trainweb.org/gearedsteam/

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Mookie, ah a subject of tremendous interest by me also,

Shays, and their cousins the Hiesler and the Climax were all gear driven engines design for heavy pulling on poorly graded ROW's. They were invesnted for logging lines , they are not fast by any measure 12mph seams to be a maximum speed but even at slow speeds they sound like an express train at 60mph. The smaller wheels and multiple high pressure cylinders tied together with drive axles and meshed gears created tremendous power and grip, hence the pulling power and billygoat climbing capacities.

For everything you ever wanted to know about these geared wonders,Try this link: www.trainweb.org/gearedsteam/

ok - Mookie is there - now go down to the shay picture and tell me where the wheels are? And if you are going to say that they are behind the whatever that is on the side - how does that work (this is getting complicated!)

I saw a shay with real wheels and no "whatever's" covering them up. When I get the wheels all figured out - I will go to another part and try to dissect it....

Oh yes - the Whatevers go with the yellow thingies....I probably just lost 1/2 of the forum on that one!

[Mookie]

Same with the Willamette, too!

[Mookie]

This is why I have 5 stars - I talk to myself!

I went back and re-read Modelcar and Vsmith - I bet that explains why I am not seeing real "wheels"...Those little devils are right behind all that whatever next to them...right?

[vsmith]

Yep, the gear meshing is covering the wheels, I suggest go to the link I provided, on the home page select the Shay, Then hit Components, the read. It explains how and why all the parts worked better than I could ever do it. This is the best site I have found regarding geared engines. Do this for each type of engine and you'll be an expert, it tells you everthing you need to know to bore the tears out of non-trainbuffs at parties. Hmm, Maybe thats why I dont get invited out much anymore.....

[Mookie]

I know the feeling - MC thinks the Mookie's eyes glaze over - he should see my co-workers!

[Mookie]

This website is so interesting - really complete with explanations and pictures!

Thank you! (you all go, you will love it)

[Modelcar]

VSmith...That is an excellent web site of the geared engines. Jen....Look at the pic of the Shay engine and you will see it is a three cylinder unit. The cyl / piston rods project straight down to and connect to the "crank shaft"....and on each end of the crankshaft are "drive shafts" leading to the front drive truck which has, in the "boxes", a gear set for each wheel and each gear box drives each wheel / axle assy. This is repeated for the rear truck on the engine and the truck under the tender. At each end of each drive shaft would be a universal joint [flexible], to accomodate the movement between all the components....The wheels of course, are right behind each gear box and are very small for a steam engine and the gearing and the small wheels provide the ratio needed to operate in the environment they had to deal with...steep grades in the forest.[8D]

[Mookie]

Printer running - will take it all home and study it!

Thanx to all!

[dharmon]

Oh shay can you see....

[Modelcar]

....One hoss shay.

[dehusman]

Shays had a busy side and plain side. The busy side is the photgenic one so that's what most people took pictures of. The trucks of a geared locomotive look something like a archbar truck. But on the engineer's side (on most Shay's) where the journal box was there was a gear. Vertical steam cylinders (sorta like the ones used in ships) drove a drive shaft that drove gears on the ends of the axles Since th trucks had to turn the "drive shaft" was actually a series of universal joints and couplings that let things move around. The boiler was off center (towards the plain side) to leave room and balance for the cylinders.

A Heisler had a drive train and gears down the center of the trucks and used pair of cylinders in a vee (Buy the new 1905 Heisler with the V2 engine) that connected in the center under the boiler.

The Climx used a drive similar to the Heisler, except the cylinders were mounted on each side of the boiler and drove a gearbox under the boiler in the center.

One of the companies selling brass engines in the 70's used the slogan "Give your wife a Climax for Christmas!"

You don't shay.

Dave H.

[espeefoamer]

Are there any photos of the engineers side of the Shay type Baldwin loco?