A switch at a RR crossing?

[wgnrr]

The Chicago Terminal Railroad uses many switches in the streets.

Unfortuetly for the crews, they have to get out and pound wooden blocks into the switch in order to throw it.

Phil

[mudchicken]

Just wait until they start complaining about that "bump" in the middle of a crossing that turns out to be a self-guarded frog. (and no, you aren't going to grind down the bump)

[steam_marc]

We had a switch like that in the Weber Road crossing of the River Line back when the Frisco was still operating the line. When BN took over, in 1980, they sent out a track crew to upgrade the line and that was the first switch they took out. It was the north end of a passing track at the top of a grade, and they moved it about 100' south.

I talked to the foreman of the track gang, and he told me Frisco had too many switches and many were misplaced. He said he was going to try to get them all out before anyone could check. There are now NO switches between Weber and Reavis.

We also had street switches down along the riverfront on Second Street between downtown and the Busch brewery. Quite a few and some are still there but I haven't been down there lately.

Hmm. Since I'm near here, maybe I should check it out too.

[carknocker1]

I see your point , you didn't make me mad , and like I said it has been a few years since I have been there .

[wabash1]

Wabash1 ;Just South of Makemsom Street the NS crosses CSX , it is here that the NS enters the Interchange track , at Hart Street the CSX enters the interchange track . Before the Toyota interchange tracks were built these interchange tracks handled every kind of car including autoracks . At this interchange I have seen Coal hoppers , tank cars , box cars , ect. As of a couple years ago when I still lived and worked out at the Toyota railyard , this interchange handles Coiled steel cars and other general freight ,  at the Toyota interchange NS brings the loaded autoracks to the interchange from the plant and CSX picks up . I know in the past NS had to have the cars to the interchange at set times that were coordinated between the Princeton yard and the CSX dispatchers . NS has the job of handeling all of the switching at the plant  and Green Metals and Millinium steel .

Cars coming off the the interchange in Princeton from CSX are picked up by the Princeton Yard job that at some point during the day .

I hope this helps   

I am a engineer for the ns at princeton. the switch at hart can not be used by ns crews and the switch is north of makemson as well as the interlocking. yes years ago we used it for storage as well as csx interchange, now all csx loads go to the new tracks south of town, anything other than cars go to these tracks. not trying to make you mad i just was going to make you make it clearer. at least to me it seemed y9ou was saying the ns set cars out at hart street.  but I guess a good example of the basic thread is that here is a switch at both ends on the street.

[jcitron]

There used to be a ton of them in Lawrence, MA along Canal Street. Ther is an abandoned branchline served the textile mills and a paper mill along the street. All the street trackage is gone now. The only sections of the branch left are the ones that ran directly beside the mills on the south side of the canal, and that is cut in various places and covered with weeds.

 John

[carknocker1]

Wabash1 ;Just South of Makemsom Street the NS crosses CSX , it is here that the NS enters the Interchange track , at Hart Street the CSX enters the interchange track . Before the Toyota interchange tracks were built these interchange tracks handled every kind of car including autoracks . At this interchange I have seen Coal hoppers , tank cars , box cars , ect. As of a couple years ago when I still lived and worked out at the Toyota railyard , this interchange handles Coiled steel cars and other general freight ,  at the Toyota interchange NS brings the loaded autoracks to the interchange from the plant and CSX picks up . I know in the past NS had to have the cars to the interchange at set times that were coordinated between the Princeton yard and the CSX dispatchers . NS has the job of handeling all of the switching at the plant  and Green Metals and Millinium steel .

Cars coming off the the interchange in Princeton from CSX are picked up by the Princeton Yard job that at some point during the day .

I hope this helps   

[wabash1]

That was the switch for the CSX and NS on the north side , Makemson is on the South side , today it maybe different but in the past that is how it was . The Tracks further south are interchange tracks for CSX and Toyota .

Ok maybe I should ask this another way, What perpose does the ns have with that switch on the north end of that track? and maybe i can get bonus info , who does the interchanging at toyota?

[carknocker1]

That was the switch for the CSX and NS on the north side , Makemson is on the South side , today it maybe different but in the past that is how it was . The Tracks further south are interchange tracks for CSX and Toyota .

[mudchicken]

Didn't most streetcar and interurbans have switches inbeded in the pavement?

Submarine switch (freight railroags sometimes use them too (expensive special trackwork you want to avoid if at all possible, especially with any tonnage)

Turnouts in the crossing with the switch just outside the crossing are fairly common. If that crossing is a rubber or concrete, those rascals are a giant custom built pain in the keester. The Walnut Ave crossing in Anaheim/Orange, CA still gives me the willies.

(Invariably, the highway engineers don't understand why railroaders have seroius misgivings about any switch or turnout in a crossing and why asphalt in a crossing is a bozo no-no...) 

[wabash1]

After looking at the satelite photo that is the switch I was refering to , it is the CSX switch for the interchange . I know the switch you are refering to on Makemsome Street .

1st off that picture is about 5 years old. 2nd the ns tracks are the tracks to the far left.  there is no way that switch interchanges with the southern, down at makemsom is the only switch that connects the csx with the ns. but just past that switch at makemsom going south is the new csx siding and on further south is 3 tracks for storage from the toyota plant. and that is a angled interlocking.

[kitbasher]

Yes, on Allen St, Spingfield Mass. the stand was just off the pavement, the rest of the points and frogs were in the pavement. I guess this isn't a good way to go where there is ice and snow, 3 times the work to clean out, dangerous and holds up traffic- and I remember a derailment, a minor one, blamed on this 'garbage collector'. It isn't a great idea for models either, but remember, street cars had- still have? switches 100% in the pavement, turned by a tool like what the water dept. uses to turn mains on and off. Look up some street car sites....

[GP-9_Man11786]

Didn't most streetcar and interurbans have switches inbeded in the pavement?

[Ishmael]

We had a switch like that in the Weber Road crossing of the River Line back when the Frisco was still operating the line. When BN took over, in 1980, they sent out a track crew to upgrade the line and that was the first switch they took out. It was the north end of a passing track at the top of a grade, and they moved it about 100' south.

I talked to the foreman of the track gang, and he told me Frisco had too many switches and many were misplaced. He said he was going to try to get them all out before anyone could check. There are now NO switches between Weber and Reavis.

We also had street switches down along the riverfront on Second Street between downtown and the Busch brewery. Quite a few and some are still there but I haven't been down there lately.

[carknocker1]

After looking at the satelite photo that is the switch I was refering to , it is the CSX switch for the interchange . I know the switch you are refering to on Makemsome Street .

[Zwingle]

Here's the Hart St. crossing in Princeton, IN.  (I do think the sidings are used for interchanging, as they actually begin on the interchange track three blocks to the south at Makemson Ave.)

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=38.346993&lon=-87.569658&z=19.9&r=0&src=ggl

I seem to recall an interesting Trains article on the very subject of switching in streets.  Street switches were more common in bigger cities back in the day when railroads served many industries in downtown areas, in alleys, etc.  The switch mechanisms discussed were in boxes below street level covered by a metal plate, which was removed to operate the switch (with a tool that I cannot recall.)  Seems there was mention of the mainenance problems keeping the points and switches clean as they would be prone to filling with water and sand, especially with switches that weren't used often.   Here's a (not very good) old operational example.  If you look in the foreground you can see a plate running between the points: http://www.wwvrailway.com/images/yvt298.jpg

Here are some long abandoned examples:

http://www.dpdproductions.com/photos_rrgallery_rathole/DSCN6643.jpg

http://www.dpdproductions.com/photos_rrgallery_rathole/DSCN6657.jpg

http://www.dpdproductions.com/photos_rrgallery_rathole/DSCN6642.jpg

http://www.oldnyc.com/newtown_creek/lic_lirr/Dscn0003.jpg 

Here's a modern streetcar "single point" switch: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Toronto_Streetcar_Single_Point_Switch.jpg/800px-Toronto_Streetcar_Single_Point_Switch.jpg

Another single point switch with the plate on the outside: http://www.lightrail.com/photos/sanfrancisco/singlepoint.jpg

 

 

 

[railfan619]

Yea I have seen that in couple of places here in my home town of milwaukee. One place is on the UP line where it crosses clement ave. another place is right before the college ave. Crossing there are few other places. One other place is on the Cp line that runs by the plant along 43rd st. between greenfield ave. and lincoln ave.

[wabash1]

Wabash1 , it has been a while , but I lived near there for years in fact I grew a few blocks from there . They may have changed it in recent years . As I recall it was where Hart Street curved back toward the West just off Hall Street . Not too far to the North of there was a switch that went to the old Wilkerson Bates lumber yard . I think there may have been a 2nd switch that went to vacant lot that used have telephone poles and cables stored there .

that switch is still there but it has nothing to do with the ns interchange. that is down by makemson street. just trying to get you to make it clear. really there is many on the old southern trackage from louisville to st.louis.

[carknocker1]

Wabash1 , it has been a while , but I lived near there for years in fact I grew a few blocks from there . They may have changed it in recent years . As I recall it was where Hart Street curved back toward the West just off Hall Street . Not too far to the North of there was a switch that went to the old Wilkerson Bates lumber yard . I think there may have been a 2nd switch that went to vacant lot that used have telephone poles and cables stored there .

[wabash1]

Yes,

In Princeton , Indiana on South Hart Street there is a switch in the railroad crossing , it is part of the interchange between Norfolk Southern & CSX .

I sure would like for you to show that to me . ive never seen that interchange switch there.

[CShaveRR]

That's usually avoided at all costs.  There are times when a switch (the points) are right next to one side of a street, and the frog is on the opposite side, but even that is rare.

When they redid some tracks here a few years back, they moved a switch location, then had to move the fire-road to avoid the problem you're interested in.  Still can't get used to that kink in the road!

[carknocker1]

Yes,

In Princeton , Indiana on South Hart Street there is a switch in the railroad crossing , it is part of the interchange between Norfolk Southern & CSX .

[Boyd]

Anyone ever see a switch in a RR crossing?