Quick Question

[jeaton]

Obviously, there are a variety of devices intended to stop the occasional loose car from rolling off the rail, but decision on the type and its stopping ability might more be based on where the car might go after end of track. The biggest post are probably for cars that would otherwise go across the concourse and down the escalator, where ties and mounds of dirt might be designed to protect the weeds. Oops, I am just repeating what Mudchicken said. A blind shove on 56 cars? Bozo is way too gentle.

[mudchicken]

Tyson:

Tie-bumper (crossed-tie version) are still out there, but you won't find them with new track construction and should there be an injury accident with a tie bumper, it's rather hard to justify its existance in court or to the FRA. (You will not find tie bumpers of any kind in railroad's current standard plans in general circulation)

MC

ps...saw some of your huge Hammersly Iron Alcos back here at NRE's PNC Alco shop at Mt. Vernon, IL...wish we could see those black & yellow rascals run......

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....One would imagine the pile of ground one sees occasionally at end of track would be more effectifve at stopping rolling stock and since it would kind of "cushion" the stop I would imagine it would impart less damage to the rolling stock hitting it.

Very effective and also very cheap. Three or four 15 yard truck loads will do the trick. In my neck of the weeds this is the usual bumper.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

The roll-on loading ramp (for circus-style) loading that they have where I work would probably stop a car pretty much dead in its tracks - much concrete and solid ground beyond that. Anything of the other barriers is mostly cosmetic. As stated, a car with sufficient speed/weight will just keep on going. I saw a picture some time ago of what was left of a loco that hit the counterweight for a drawbridge. The loco frames (2 of them) made it through, even though the superstructures stopped at the counterweight.

I saw a loaded flat car doing about 15 MPH go into one of those. Both the car and the concrete went straight up about 2 feet and the momentum of the car moved the whole shebang about 2 more feet horizontally. The load on the flat just kept on going. Sort of like a certain bunny.

[Anonymous]

Those crossties in the photo are in fact bolted down, if you look carefully to can see the bolts on the top surface of the ties. Four bolts altogether, one on each side of each rail. I have no idea what regulations are like here because as far i know we dont even have an FRA equivalent. I believe that the rules and regulations are decided for the most part by departments in each state government. (you would have a better understanding of this arrangement if you know the history of Australia's railway development).

There isnt enough new rail works going on in my area to be able to see if they have changed their methods for end of tracks devices although i suspect that new installations probably do not have crossties only. I know a couple of locations at Spencer Street (one of Melbourne's main passenger stations) where the spur has a large bumping post as well as crossties a few yards before it.

While i'm not sure how things are done in the US, over here when backing empty passenger equipment into the platforms at Spencer Street they have a crew member riding the end of the train and communicating with the engineer by either hand signals or radio so as not to over run the dead end.

The main reason i posted this topic in the first place is that i am building a small model RR set in an industrial area in the late 80's early 90's and not sure what would be appropriate for the end of tracks. Whats the story about tracks ending inside a private building (ie factory/warehouse) Is it the railroads responsibility about the end of the line? or the buildings owners?

Also you mentioned about no tie bumpers after 1980 for new installations. Do the railroads upgrade these installations or do they just leave them until they absolutely HAVE to upgrade them??

Tyson

[mudchicken]

Tyson:

Looked at your photo. My only comment is that I hope those things are bolted to the ties or sleepers below. That is not common at all here. (If those ties are not fastened somehow, the railroad would be fined by the FRA for improper installation of a safety device as a Code 1 violation $10,000+.

Placement of the track bumper is a judgement call based on each railroad's individual opinion of the value of what you are protecting behind the end of track. As example:

CSX: wheel stops or track bumping post approved by CSX
Norfolk Southern: Earhwork Berm except for bumping posts "will be used on all stub end tracks at a structure, dock, road or where public/private safety is required.")
Union Pacific: Earthwork Berm (except for track bumping post in critical locations as dtermined by UPRR's Engineering Department-Omaha)
BNSF: wheel stops ahead of earth berm -or- track bumping post
CN-IC: wheel stops or bumping posts...special rules for hazmat tank cars

AREMA 16-10.1.25 Bumping Posts: Track structures placed between the running rails of a track to stop the movement of rolling stock. Their proper use is self explanatory. -1994 (that's self explanatory unless your switchman is Bozo Texino & kin)

You will not see tie bumpers specified for new track construction since 1980...

I personally am not thrilled with wheel stops. (as in Ford automobiles, anything where the design is dictated by an accountant is a failure waiting to happen) I prefer Track Bumpers, the more massive the better. The chances of human error by a bad seed switchman are just to great. Case in point: In Los Angeles (La Mirada Auto Facility) 1988, I saw the aftermath of what happened when a crew shoved blind into the Hadley auto unloading facility, pushed 6 autoracks past where the wheel stops were before finally stopping. The wheel stops pushed over in a wishbone move and then fell off the end of the rail as the locomotive shoved (Tapes showed up to run5!, full throttle) against the wheel stops until they failed. The 6 autoracks wandered out on the asphalt until the cars jacknifed and the air hos broke putting the train in emergency. The shove was 56 cars long. and oh, the six autoracks behind the wheel stops took out 38 brand new Ford and Toyota cars and trucks in nice, neat rows....consternation!!!

mudchicken

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the info from everyone!

When i said it was not uncommon to see crossties over the tracks i was generally referring to industrial spurs or rarely used ones. It seems here that the crossties are there because they have been there for years and no one seems to have much of a reason to upgrade. When the overhead was extended further along my line the new spurs for EMU's had a steel frame sort of thing mounted at the end. However at other places that have had their spurs longer there are still crossties even for EMU's, indeed for a while at Port Melbourne station the light rail/tram line was ended with crossties. This photo (thanx to VICSIG) shows old EMU's at Epping with the crossties clearly visable at the end of the track.

http://www.vicsig.net/photo.php?filename=20020126-epping-130m-89m-148m-69m.jpg

Do the bumping post or wheel stops get placed on practically every spur? Or does it depend on the location of the spur? For example a track ending close to a road, carpark, or similar, would be judged a greater potential danger than a spur ending in a field or a ditch or somewhere away from the public? and thus determine the type of device used?

[espeefoamer]

A few years ago ,in an industrial area,on a spur ending short of a small street there was just a tie stuck between the rails as a bumper post.One day while driving past,a boxcar had gone off the end of track and was sitting halfway across the road.[:0] I won't name the railroad involved, but it paints its locos yellow.[}:)]

[mudchicken]

Hope he doesn't have cousins in Springdale, AR[dinner][:-^][:-^][:-^][:-^][:-^][:-^]

[dharmon]

I think it's somehow ironic that a post by TYSON is replied to by MUDCHICKEN

[mudchicken]

(1) Bumping Posts/ Track Bumpers are the red/yellow/orange sawhorse looking devices with a drawbar high striking plate that you see. They are made by Western Cullen Hayes (Richmond, IN...http://www.WCH.com) or BUDA (still around?) and cost about $1400 - $4000 each. You can add spring or hydraulic attachments. They will stop a single car at 5mph without (much) damage. Over 5mph the appliance is designed to start coming apart with the track componets in much the same way a race car flies apart in a collision to disapate energy. In ultimate failure (Switchman brain failure while shoving blind mode) the bumping post is designed to rip the trucks out from underneath the railcar(s) and stop it at all cost.

The ultimate track bumper/ bumping post costs about $15,000 to $130,000 and has a monster hydraulic ram on the end (Hayes Model WH) to stop several moving cars at up to 10-12 mph or 400000 pounds of force. You may see one of these in transit applications. I have seen them in the LA Red line shop facility and at the end of track for RTD in Denver. Most freight railroads cannot justify the expense.

If you look carefully at a track bumping post, you will also note square joints ahead of the bumper and two additional rails spiked like bridge guardrails to the ties between the running rails. This is done on purpose to help the collision be controlled and keep the railcar from squirting off in the wrong direction.

(2) Wheel stops (2kinds) are designed to "slide' like RDGcoalboy said. They look like little orange posts sticking about 18-25 inches in the air. They are made by WCH Hayes, Nolan/Simplex, Aldon and others of cast or fabicated iron or steel. One type grabs the ball top of the rail in a long sleeve and slides with great friction when a wheel hits it. The other type (WCH -SF) grabs the top of the rail and pushes against the side of a tie with a heavy brace. When a whell hits this hard enough, it slides down the rail and pushes the ties out from underneath as well. These all cost $200-300....There also is a hinged variety for when you have to continue behind a wheel stop for some reason.

These are less effective than track bumpers.

(3) Most railroads have a standard for earth berms. Some railroads have given up on bumpers and wheels stops (such as NS, and also to avoid the $1976-$2014 threshold where a derailment becomes FRA "reportable") and now use dirtpiles or large concrete blocks because switchmen continue to think iit is OK to ram cars into these devices. (the expense of relacing these things gets rediculous and depletes the roadmaster's budget in a heartbeat) Both of these should have about half a rail length of track behind them or they wont stop much of anything and slide off the end.

None of these devices is designed to be run into in daily service. The design is supposed to have the wheels stop just shortof or just touching the end of track device.
If you want to see a good rumble, wait till one of these has been ruined after having a car shoved through it, Track gang/roadmaster on one side and trainmaster/ traincrew on the other. [}:)][}:)][}:)]

(4) Cross tied bumpers should NEVER be used (my opinion). I have done two surveys on trainmen fatalities after switchmen riding the side of a car hit one of these. The flaw is that the railcar wheels do not strike the ties evenly causing the car to roll over in the opposite direction of the closest crossed tie. (this is what created (1) & (2) in the first place.

(5) Then there are the chocks and wheel skids which are not supposed to be used ever as end of track devices.


FRA only has a general rule about maintaining end of track devices, otm and derails (49CFR213.201-49CFR213.205...The reason is is that the bumper or wheel stop is broken or missing, a bunch of other rules have been violated to get to that point. OSHA has 29CFR1910.176(1) to protect people, machines and other things behind a track bumper and as to provide "positive" protection. What Australia does, I have no idea?

pop quiz to follow[:D][:D][:D][:D][(-D][(-D]

Mudchicken[banghead][banghead][banghead]


ps- DEHusman: I wish I had a dollar for every switchman who claimed he did NOT understand that end of track devices were not to be run into on purpose . I could buy quite a few Hayes WD's with the cash generated...[swg]

[Anonymous]

Some of the wheel stops are designed to slide when a car hits them at a reasonable speed. This slows the car and eventually stops it if there is enough track. Often these wheel stops are placed too close to the end of the track to work properly.

[tree68]

The roll-on loading ramp (for circus-style) loading that they have where I work would probably stop a car pretty much dead in its tracks - much concrete and solid ground beyond that. Anything of the other barriers is mostly cosmetic. As stated, a car with sufficient speed/weight will just keep on going. I saw a picture some time ago of what was left of a loco that hit the counterweight for a drawbridge. The loco frames (2 of them) made it through, even though the superstructures stopped at the counterweight.

[Modelcar]

....One would imagine the pile of ground one sees occasionally at end of track would be more effectifve at stopping rolling stock and since it would kind of "cushion" the stop I would imagine it would impart less damage to the rolling stock hitting it.

[dehusman]

The small things are called wheel stops. They are intended to stop a car from rolling off the end of a track.

HOWEVER. Unless you put something large back there, like a huge concrete block, niether the wheel stops, a crosstie or a bumping post will stop several loaded cars or a locomotive from going off the end of the track. They are a last ditch measure. No crew would roll a car into a track expecting the bumper/wheel stops to stop the car. The crew is expected to stop the car short of the end of the track and secure it with a handbrake.

Dave H.

[eolafan]

I believe these two are methods of doing the same thing, keeping a car or locomotive from rolling uncontroled off of the end of track. The Yellow devices you have seen are curved to accept the shape of the car wheels. However, I have personally seen this not work if the car is rolling too fast. Example, about a year or so back I saw a gondola rolling down a yard lead on the north side of BNSF's Eola yard. The car had nobody riding it and this was our first clue something was very wrong. Long story made short, the car had gotten away from a switch crew and ended up rolling all the way down into the commuter train yard, up a slight incline at the end of track in front of the station platform, and since it was traveling in excess of 10 mph, it ended up crashing right through the devices you speak of and came to rest in the parking lot of the motel next door to the commuter station (lucky it was a Sunday morning and no people or cars were in the back parking lot of the motel).

[Anonymous]

Hey everyone

Couldnt find if this was asked before or not and may seem silly to some but im gunna ask anyway. My query regards spurs and dead end tracks. All the photos i've seen show the tracks ending with either some sort of large bulky buffer stop or a small red or yellow thing mounted one on each rail. What are this small things and what do they do? I guess they are designed to stop rollingstock from going off the end but could something that appears that small stop a locomotive? Also do the methods used to end spur tracks have to meet some sort of federal regulation? Over here its not uncommon to see nothing more than a white painted pair of sleepers (ties) bolted across the rail heads and/or a large pile of dirt. Can this be found in the US?

Thank you for the info [:)]