The signal on the WSOR side at Ackerville is a distant signal for the Slinger Jct. interlocking. It is usually approach (yellow). There is a counterpart on the north side, for southbound WSOR trains. Sometimes that one would change to clear (green) if the CN RTC had you lined up to head south.
The signal on the CN at Ackerville is an intermediate signal. It has a number plate on it. By the CN rules, I can go past this signal at restricted speed if it is red (stop). WSOR northbounds getting off at Slinger would get a yellow-over-lunar, approach restricting (if the switch throws). Slinger Jct. would be restricting, as it is yard limits when getting off. WSOR southbounds get restricting to cross CN, clear or advance approach, to go in the hole at Rugby. The siding at Rugby isn't bonded, or something like that, so southbounds going in the hole get an approach restricting at Ackerville.
Many of the CN and CP signals are approach lit, so they only turn on if the RTC has something lined up. Otherwise, dark signals are regarded as displaying their most restictive indication.
The CP signals are probably intermediates between absolutes (control points). Intermediate signals mainly indicate if the block or two ahead are clear, for trains going the same direction.
It is more complicated than this, but this should help the understanding.
WSOR JH engr
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
packers97 wrote:What I do not get is why aren't signals standardized nationwide? Now that we are down to 7 class 1's why not eliminate the confusion?
What I do not get is why aren't signals standardized nationwide? Now that we are down to 7 class 1's why not eliminate the confusion?
Because it would cost about $30 billion dollars to standardize them, unless the railroads were willing to accept significant loss of train capacity. If you could live with reducing the number of commuter trains by 20% and the number of freight trains by 10% that might reduce the cost to $25 billion or so. Signals are a complex system that overlay another complex system -- the track configuration -- and changing aspects not only usually requires a complete rebuild of the signal system it often involves reconfiguring track. It would require buy-in from all seven Class Is, several hundred short-lines and regionals, Amtrak and all the commuter railroads, the federal government, most of the states, and a number of agencies that operate, invest in, or manage passenger train or freight railroading.
The value of standardizing the aspects is the reduction in accidents, simplification of training and qualification of employees, and reduction in cost in materials and maintenance, balance against the de-optimization of thousands of miles of railroad system, loss of freight capacity, loss of passenger capacity, and loss of investment into other opportunities that bear much greater returns on investment.
Railroads built different systems for very good reasons, each seeking to optimize their efficiency for their unique geography and traffic conditions. One-size-fits all solutions are usually pretty crappy solutions.
The safety value is nil. The cost of collisions and derailments caused in part or in whole by misinterpreted signal aspects of unusual or foreign-road signals is very small -- if it was more than $5 million per year I'd fall over in shock. It's a very rare occurance. $5 million, by the way, will buy you about one complex control point in a city, or perhaps 10 miles of CTC in the open country.
RWM
Solz - I gotta agree with you on american idol.
solzrules wrote:Thanks for the info, guys. It makes a little more sense.....this might be one of those things I just don't get in life, kinda like why American Idol hasn't been cancelled yet.
Solz,
**Before I reply, I would like to clarify a defintion: the yellow signal to which you refer is technically refered to as a Distant Signal. This is an actual signal rule, it's aspect and meaning clearly defined by rule. The terminology can be confusing, because by its very nature, a signal like this is quite a distance from the signal it is warning about.**
Think of the yellow distant signal as similar to the black and yellow advance warning road sign for a railroad crossing. It doesn't tell you anything about the road ahead--it just tells you that 200' ahead is a railroad crossing, and that you should be prepared to stop at the crossing if necessary. The distant signal does the same thing: it tells the Engineer that there is a signal ahead for which he must be prepared to stop. Once the Engineer sees that the signal is other than STOP, the train can continue without any further action being required relating to the signal.
Regarding the dual-indication signal, the location you mention is CTC territory; that means that trains are authorized for movement in any direction by signal indication. If the dispatcher hasn't set a prefered direction in to a section of track, the signal will indicate the condition of the track in the next block, as well as the next signal aspect, in the direction of movement. Once the dispatcher sets a direction, the signals for the opposite direction will drop to red.
I concur with zardoz.
Some "distant" signals have a "D" plate on them, just like an "intermediate" usually has a number plate on the mast, bridge, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
The permanent yellow you are refering to sounds like a "distant signal"; it is NOT considered a "block signal". That means that it is a signal that indicates that there is a block signal ahead. The yellow signal in this situation (by definition) does not indicate any information regarding the track from the yellow signal to the next block signal. There could be a train sitting on the track just beyond this signal and it would still show the yellow indication. It is used on track that does not have an ABS system installed.
You can see the same thing on the Kenosha subdivision of the UP approaching Kenosha from the north. IIRC, you can see it from hwy E, just west of Sheridan Road (hwy 32).
The CP signals you ask about are not really in conflict, but it sure does look that way. The signals are conveying information both about the track in that block as well as the aspect of the next signal. If there were anything in the block on either side of the signal you refer to, the appropriate signal would display the usual red indication. If there were more than two clear blocks on either side of the signal, both aspects could be showing green at the same time.
Okay, perhaps there are some rail workers out there that can explain this to me, I've got no idea what I'm looking at.
At Rugby junction there is a signal on the CN mainline and on the WSOR main line to Horicon. These are located close to the track that jumps from the WSOR to the CN. The signal on the WSOR line is always yellow. I've never seen it any other color. The signal on the CN line seems to act like an average traffic control speed signal - there are the standard indications-red, yellow, green, etc. I think there is even a yellow over lunar white indication for the WSOR trains that leave the CN to head to Horicon from Waukesha. When a train passes through any other normal speed signal, the signal drops to red after the train passes and stays that way until the dispatcher lines up the next train. Not so with the Rugby junction signal on the CN line. This signal drops to yellow (both ways) and stays that way even if the block on either side of that signal (the next one is by a siding to the south and the one to the north is right by the WSOR-CN mainline instersection) is red.
Here's my question: Why is the WSOR line signal always yellow? What purpose does it serve?
Why does the CN signal always drop to yellow when all other signals are red?
Likewise in Wauwautosa I've noticed on the CP line (double track, signaled both directions) that one track can have a bi-directional signal indicating green one direction but yellow in the opposing direction. To me, a railroading idiot since I don't work in the industry, I would think that this sets up the potential for a collision - one way is green while the other is a more restrictive approach on the same track. Can anyone explain this?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.