Hi everyone,
Probably like many of you, one of my favorite films is Von Ryan's Express. Neat trains, beautiful scenery and a WWII storyline. It's hard to beat those three!
Over the years, I've contemplated building a copy of the POW train depicted in the movie but I'm not all that knowledgable on German railway equipment. I suspect that the train in the movie wasn't totally historically correct (as many of Hollywood's movies rarely are) but then again, the movie was made only 18 years after the end of WWII so who knows, maybe genuine WWII railway equipment was still available for the movie. Nonetheless, the movie was fictional so I'm not hellbent to perfectly reproduce a train that didn't really exist. I would be happy just building a believable version for my layout.
I never could get a real good look at the locomotive in the movie so I'm not really sure of what to get. Fleishmann has some beauties available but which one would be appropriate? I suspect a low-drivered freight locomotive would be better than a high-drivered passenger speed demon. And of course, being a wartime locomotive, heavy weathering would be mandatory!
On the other hand, I've already decided that the boxcars for the prisoners should be copies of the French "Forty and Eight" cars that were widely used during WWII for shuttling German troops to the front lines and transporting prisoners to the POW camps. But who makes an HO version of this once-common European boxcar? (The "Forty and Eight" boxcar was developed in the late 1800s and saw a lot of service in both World Wars. It was so named because it would hold forty men or eight horses. France had them by the thousands when it fell to Germany in WWII. Amazingly, the last of the cars were retired in the 1970s! Here's a pic from the one in the USAF Museum in Dayton, OH: http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=3983.)
Anyway, any help, suggestions or commentary that anyone can offer would be appreciated. Oh, I model 2-rail standard gauge HO in DC/DCC.
Many thanks,
Rabbit
Well the movie was filmed mostly in Italy at various locations, and steam was still used in many of the non-electrified areas so the producers would have used Italian locomotives most likely, Italian rolling stock too. If you are serious about wanting to model it I would recommend joining the Worldrailfans forum, lots of European modelling knowledge there.
World Railfans Forum
The locomotive used on Frank Sinatra's (Colonel "von" Ryan's) train was a an FS (Ferrovie della Stato = Italian State Railways) Class 735 2-8-0, built between 1917 and 1922 by the "American Locomotive Company di New York" according to my Italian source book, the modestly titled "Treni di Tutto il Mondo" (Trains of the Whole World). This volume one covers Italian steam locomotives.
I don't know of an HO model of the 735 although it is possible that Rivarrossi have produced this in the past. It might be possible to kitbash one from the Bachmann 2-8-0, but all the boiler mountings and the cab would have to be reduced in height significantly.
Jouef (now also part of the Hornby stable) produced a French 2-8-0 type 140 C in HO which was smaller but generally similar in appearance.
Rivarrossi did produce the Italian built Class 740 2-8-0 which was generally similar to the American 735. These were a standard product for many years and copies might be available secondhand, possibly on Ebay. I don't think it is in the restricted range currently available, but it is likely to reappear in time.
The pursuit train carrying the German troops was hauled by a Class 743 2-8-0. This started life as a Class 740, but in 1942 was rebuilt with twin "Franco Crosti" feedwater heaters, large cylinders angled downward at the rear either side of the boiler. This loco had no stack on the smokebox but had two angled stacks just foward of the cab. It was probably chosen because it looked very different to the locomotive on Von Ryan's train.
Again, I think Rivarrossi has produced this 2-8-0 in the past, but I don't think any models are currently available.
Hornby has sadly chosen to produce American prototype models, the NYC Hudson and the UP 4000 "Big Boy" rather than European prototypes not otherwise available.
The box cars used on both trains are a fairly standard European type, and should be available from one of the European manufacurers.
The trailing coach on Von Ryan's train was a standard 1930s Italian first class coach, fitted with a fake end platform required for the final scene in the movie. It would be easy to modify a standard FS model to match the car in the movie.
M636C
Wow, M636C. That was more information than I could've hoped for! Many thanks!!!
Now that I have some specifics, I can start looking for equipment.
Rabbit...
What part of Houston?
NW/290/43rd for me...
23 17 46 11
edblysard,
I'm also out 290, but a bit farther - Waller.
Rab
Von Ryan's Express is in my "Top 10 List" of favorite war movies.... It's a bit campy, and a little overacted, but it has a great story line, and lots of trains.... and there are a few great scenes in that movie too.....
I haven't done a really good search for the Italian locomotives in question, but I found the following site with details of French locomotives that illustrates the 140C I mentioned above:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/roland.arzul/etat/materiel/140.htm
What is more interesting is that the Etat also had the 140-001 type which was a copy of the Italian 730, (a saturated steam predecessor of the 740) and the 140-501 which is a near replica of the Alco built 735, and the link includes plans of these types.
It is (sadly) in French, but it sort of explains why the 140C is vaugely similar to the 735.
Overacted?
That was the late Frank Sinatra, a Railfan, noted collector of Lionel "O" gauge, and member of the "Train Collectors Association". He is said to loved every moment of the movie. The ultimate "Cab Ride" for a rail fan.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
DMUinCT wrote: Overacted? That was the late Frank Sinatra, a Railfan, noted collector of Lionel "O" gauge, and member of the "Train Collectors Association". He is said to loved every moment of the movie. The ultimate "Cab Ride" for a rail fan.
Sinatra wasn't the only actor in the movie. He played the only significant US serviceman with a group of British Army prisoners of war, played by the usual suspects in the UK character acting business. The scene where the British Chaplain pretends to be a German officer might qualify for overacting.
I have found a link to a photo of a Class 735
http://www.ilmondodeitreni.it/Gr735.html
There is also the Wikipedia entry (in Italian)
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotiva_Gruppo_735
TimChgo9 wrote: Von Ryan's Express is in my "Top 10 List" of favorite war movies.... It's a bit campy, and a little overacted, but it has a great story line, and lots of trains.... and there are a few great scenes in that movie too.....
I must agree with your comment about much of the film being "overacted", especially by the lead British officer (can't recall the actor's real name) and of course Sinatra himself who comes across as a cocky, slick New York type and not a USAAF Colonel in WWII (I'm from New York City area so I can get away with saying that about New Yorkers).
eolafan wrote:I must agree with your comment about much of the film being "overacted", especially by the lead British officer (can't recall the actor's real name)
Believe it was Trevor Howard, who must have been in about a zillion movies.
M636C wrote: DMUinCT wrote: Overacted? That was the late Frank Sinatra, a Railfan, noted collector of Lionel "O" gauge, and member of the "Train Collectors Association". He is said to loved every moment of the movie. The ultimate "Cab Ride" for a rail fan. Sinatra wasn't the only actor in the movie. He played the only significant US serviceman with a group of British Army prisoners of war, played by the usual suspects in the UK character acting business. The scene where the British Chaplain pretends to be a German officer might qualify for overacting.M636C
Frank never "over acted" everyone else was "under acting"
The British Chaplian was Edward Mulhare soon to be TV's "Ghost and Mrs Muir" and I thought his performance was to be intentionally, very funny and in that it was well done. Yeah about Trevor Howard tho, he was munching the scenery thru most of the flick.
Have fun with your trains
eolafan wrote: TimChgo9 wrote: Von Ryan's Express is in my "Top 10 List" of favorite war movies.... It's a bit campy, and a little overacted, but it has a great story line, and lots of trains.... and there are a few great scenes in that movie too..... I must agree with your comment about much of the film being "overacted", especially by the lead British officer (can't recall the actor's real name) and of course Sinatra himself who comes across as a cocky, slick New York type and not a USAAF Colonel in WWII (I'm from New York City area so I can get away with saying that about New Yorkers).
Yeah, it was Trevor Howard.... he's in all kinds of movies. Even though it was slightly over acted, and the British chaplain's role was overacted a bit, but I think it was supposed to be....anyway, I have always enjoyed watching that movie, and I always check the listings to see if I can catch it. Does anyone know if it's on DVD??
It is available on DVD.
I have a copy. It has a serial number on the spine that is almost unreadable but appears to be 1003SDW. This is a PAL copy rather than NTSC if that still matters.
Only Sinatra and Trevor Howard are credited on the cover.
I checked amazon.com and there are a number of copies available (as cheap as $8 or $9, a steal in my opinion), including a new 2-Disc DVD version...definitely a great flick!
World War II background, wonderful scenery, and last but not least, cool trains! Check it out if you haven't seen it yet!
Brian
As coincidence would have it, the AMC channel showed Von Ryan's Express this morning. Even though I already have it on video cassette and, therefore, can watch it whenever I want, I dropped what I was doing and watched it from beginning to end.
Interestingly, after our discussions this week about the Italian RR equipment used in the movie, I noticed details about the train that I never noticed before.
Thanks to all of you for making one of my favorite movies BETTER!
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