Epiphany?

[coalminer3]

You ain't lived until you've had to deal with frozen coal loads...BTW, we didn't have no @#$ thawing shed.

Anyway, snow removal equipment is interesitng stuff. I recall seeing snow melters, flangers, wedge plows, Russell plows, wing plows, and Jordan spreaders all used to get rid of the stuff. I have seen rotaries on the SP, but they were not in operation. Pentrex has a tape of an SP-made movie on snow removal in the Sierra - great stuff from the 1950s. I think there is also a tape somewhere of the "City" train which got trapped in snow on the SP.

Well, better go oil up the shovel - there's more on the way for us this evening...

I'll close with a story which I recall from my days in the frozen north; you could always tell a local because they backed into the driveway; that way they could get a running start through what the plow left to get out onto the road. Here (WV) we try to park on flat places...not easy to find, though. Just remember, pitchers and catchers report in 14 days - it's going to get better soon.

work safe

[Mookie]

Ah ha - caught a newbie - people avoid me like the plague sometimes cuz I always ask.... Why?

That would be like the car was backing up on the road. Maybe has something to do with the transmission set-up? This is going to cause the Mookie's eyes to glaze over - I can see it coming!

[michaelstevens]

One more thing (that might fascinate Mookie) about the Pettibone/Swingmaster is that;

When they are up on the rails (on their hi-rail wheels), their road tires rotate in the opposite direction, to the direction in which the machine is travelling !!

[Mookie]

The things you learn on this forum!

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

In Chicago, CN/IC frequently loads empty gons full of snow and sends the "empty" cars to New Orleans. The cars get south, the snow melts, and IC sends the empties back north where they were supposebly "mishandled" and/or billed in error.[:D][:D][:D]

MC[banghead]

Posted this on another thread one time - but it's appropriate.[:D]

It's been said that after the Blizzard of '77 in Buffalo, they did exactly that - only the cars were actually destined (not just 'misrouted') to someplace "warm," again in the theory that the snow would melt on the way. [}:)]

Enter a cold snap. The snow didn't melt. [:0]

Receiving RR very unhappy as they couldn't use the cars.[:(!]

[mudchicken]

In Chicago, CN/IC frequently loads empty gons full of snow and sends the "empty" cars to New Orleans. The cars get south, the snow melts, and IC sends the empties back north where they were supposebly "mishandled" and/or billed in error.[:D][:D][:D]

MC[banghead]

[Mookie]

Yeah - that's what I wanted to know - the snow equp on engines. I think I have this all nailed down now. I won't get to see any of it, cuz the railroads and I will be a lot older before our favorite watching spot loses enough snow and ice to be able to even get close to the tracks. More snow on the way this weekend.

Oh and one more thing. Our street crews scoop up all the excess snow on the streets and dump it on the next little town over - (Denton) - no, I am kidding. But do the railroads actually collect up the snow and .....or......

You know, if we could just get rain during the warmer months, this would save a lot of headache for many of us!

Mook

[mudchicken]

(1) Speed swings are similar to front end loaders (Most are Pettibone or its successor, Swingmaster....or Mitchell)....some are equipped to hi-rail, others are not....all have a small little articulated boom with a 90 degree curved endpiece (kinda like an elephant's trunk) used to conect to rail tongs, magnets, small buckets, etc......they are a roadmaster's favorite toy along with a backhoe and a section truck....

(2) I[:(!] don't want to see any of the city, county or state yo-yo's anywhere near my crossings (they are a menace and accidents waiting to happen, mudchicken seeing red here)[:(!][:(!][:(!]....In a general sense, railroads in most places maintain anything within 2 feet of the nearest rail and between tracks with less than 25 foot track centers....State statutes vary, but the basics are fundementally the same.

My little railroad in Iowa has two damaged road crossings, complete with broken rails since Jan. 1 caused by morons plowing too deep with graders. In the summer, they plow dirt over the top of the crossings...One maintenance guy spends at least a week a month cleaning out plugged flangeways in the crossings...I've seen two incidents in CO and one in KS this year where they paved over active lines (and I'll bet there were some tee-ed off roadmasters because of that)...

The current rotaries are not that much different than the old ones...The pilot mounted plows on most engines look like a miniature version of a highway wedge plow..They are only 18-24 inches tall with hinged "doors" to assist with the MU cables and air hoses........


Iron Bird[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[tree68]

The tracks on Ft Drum (NY) were cleared with a wheeled vehicle - I'm presuming a front-loader as I haven't seen it, just the tire tracks. It does appear that they may have cut some slots in the bucket, though, as they are cleaning well below the top of the rail.

Upon asking the appropriate person (the roads and ground dispatcher) the appropriate question (how are they cleaning the tracks?) I found out that the post acquired a ballast regulator last year. It apparently has some form of snowblower as well. It also explains how they are clearing between the rails this year.

Normally this picture wouldn't be a keeper, but it's the only one I could get.

[CShaveRR]

I'm hoping not, but you might be laboring under a misconception, Sis. The switch-point heaters I mentioned are not sophisticated locomotive equipment, but rather permanent ground installations (remember the thread about propane tanks along the tracks?).

The street or highway plows go over grade crossings just like any other part of the street, usually without problems.

Speed-swing is a trade name for what basically is a rubber-tired front-end loader, but can be used for oh, so much more, according to the manufacturer. The front bucket (or rail tongs, or whatever's mounted on there at the moment) is on a swiveling base, which does a lot to increase the machine's flexibility.

There have been cases of trains derailing on account of the built-up ridges of ice and snow left by street crews over grade crossings, but this is most likely to happen on a line that hasn't been used for a while. In my pre-employment days I saw a couple of these happen at low speed in Michigan. Both cases involved shoving moves (a locomotive would have been heavy enough to cut through the ice), and they just had to stop and pull the cars back along the ruts they had just made, then chip the ice so they could go where they were supposed to.

As for the plows used, you don't see as many as you used to, because most railroads now use the plows on the front of the locomotives (easier to do once they got rid of the footboards). That's enough to open a line after a typical snowfall. If a line has been drifted shut, you might need a wedge plow (now often mounted on a weighted gondola; used to be a separate piece of equipment with its own cab, etc.), such as a Russell plow, Jordan Sprader, or something like that. There are still a very few rotary plows out there; if one of them is used anywhere, it makes railfan news everywhere! But it takes a lot of snow, with accompanying drifting, to require one of those to reopen a line.

BC

[Mookie]

This is all very interesting! I didn't realize the engines were so sophisticated! We had officially 10 inches of snow here in Lincoln and more to the north (Omaha). This isn't unusual for winters here, but does present some problems - especially with the below zero factor. Anyway - what about the grade crossings. I would assume the cities/counties involved would maintain them, but having seen the work in Lincoln - I am not sure I would trust them not to rip up the tracks while they were maintaining. So who touches what? And Carl, what are speed-swings?

Also - The old engineer used to run a snowplow around Alliance and northwest NE - since they used to get snow measured in "how tall is the house". These rotary snowplows - looked just like that. What does the device look like on the modern engines (see ghighland posting)

Mookie

[CShaveRR]

Switch-point heaters (electrical or gas-flame), sometimes augmented by blowers, usually take care of the switches so that the brooms aren't needed that often (I never knew what that metal thing on the tip of the handle was until I really started working for a railroad!).

At Proviso, we have at our disposal as big an array of graders, Speed-swings, front-end loaders, salt trucks, and dump trucks for snow removal as any of the surrounding suburbs. The fire roads and intermodal areas are usually kept in pretty good shape by these vehicles (many of them are leased or hired). On rare occasions, tracks have been cleared by the rubber-tired equipment as well. The down-side: if there's a dry spell before the spring rains, there will be clouds of salt dust kicked up around here that you wouldn't believe!

I'll second the statement about those jet blowers being hazardous. The obvious danger is from snow, ice, and ballast blown into the air by them. Less obvious (but the main reason we don't want them in our yard) is that once the switches have been blown out, what's left is a bit of moisture, which freezes on (or in) the switch points. With power switches and split-second decisions, a switch that won't throw properly can lead to some bad mishaps.[:(]

P.S. Glad you can navigate again, Sis! I shoveled three inches of snow this morning, but that seems to be the extent of it--except that we've been plowed in again!

[BaltACD]

Plow's are the only remedy where you have tracks going through snow packed cuts when the snow depth, account blowing and drifting, gets measured in feet and not inches.

12 inches or so is of little impediment to trains as the pilot plows that are on most current locomotives plows as it goes. Snow will reduce the tonnage capability of engines as the snow on the rail will act as a 'lubricant' and encourage wheel slip.

The biggest problem for railtoads in winter is keeping switches operating. Frozen switches require the lowest tech solution....a Trackman with a broom and shovel. With todays 'right sized' railroads the Trackman has become a scarce commidity....there are nowhere near enough of them to keep operations running without serious train delays.

[Anonymous]

I've heard a snow jet being referred-to in BNSF's Northtown Yard on the
snowier days up here, and I know the BNSF has run a light engine consist
over the Hinckley Sub for snow-plowing. I couldn't tell if any of them had a
plow car (Russell or a gondola-type) at the front.

[mudchicken]

Ballast Regulators, Trackmen & Locomotives all help clear snow...IronKen & Co. grumble a little bit, but they operate switch brooms as well.

IF those 6 tracks see trains frequently as I would expect they do, those tracks are kept clear by the locomotives with their plows and traction motor blowers.

Have seen extra yard jobs put on just to run around with a light engine consist to help clear snow. Some yard have jet powered snow blowers on standby, but if not properly used, they become a menace instead of a help...

[Mookie]

I usually work these things out in the shower before bed - but this came to me at 3:15 am - a little before the alarm....Gotta get these occurrences on a better time schedule...

We had roughly 12 inches of snow....

My train watching spot has 6 tracks. Big spot.

How do you clear that with a snow plow? Do you not clear it with a snow plow?

How do trains run when the track is buried under all that snow?

When is a snow plow appropriate? Besides up and down my street and into my driveway!

Help

Fuzzy