Push me-Pull Me

[vsmith]

Saw two interesting things yeserday while out running errands.

1. Was out in Pomona ,Ca where the old SP line parrallels the UP lines, saw two trains, one UP and on SP, on each mainline, they were both "racing" each other for lack of a better term, at least they were matched speed exchanging horn blast for horn blast. Has any one else ever seen trains "racing" each other?

2. The UP consisted of one big cowl unit, about 50 coal cars and a matching cowl unit bringing up the rear. This is the first time I've ever seen a freight train in a push-pull set up (except for helper service) seen Jamtrack trians in this setup, but never a freight. Has nayone else seen this? is it common?[%-)]

[wabash1]

this is what we have been talking about with dp power. push pull as you put it . it is common on the eastern half of the country.

[edblysard]

Rats,
And here I thought I was finally going to get a look at that Polish sex manual...

Bet it was a dedicated unit train.
They set them up that way because, like wasbash pointed out, they can use DP and push as they pull, although 50 cars is kinda small, and , it saves having to cut off and run the locomotives around the train when it is emptied, the crew just gets on the other end, and away they go, no need to turn the train or the locomotives.
Was each locomotive facing away from the train? ie:one pointed south, the other one pointed north?

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Modelcar]

....It is a well known fact back in the 30's and 40's that the two crack passenger trains leaving Chicago heading east on the Pennsylvania and New York Central had similar depart times in the afternoon and it was a race each afternoon as their tracks paralleled each other on the start of their eastern journey to NYC...I believe they were the Broadway Limited and the 20th Century Limited. From hearing so much about it I'm sure it was a real "race" each day. Of course both their passenger steamers doing the honors. I believe that would have been the K-4's and NYC's Hudsons. I hope I have remembered it correctly. Yes, it was a famous race....

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....It is a well known fact back in the 30's and 40's that the two crack passenger trains leaving Chicago heading east on the Pennsylvania and New York Central had similar depart times in the afternoon and it was a race each afternoon as their tracks paralleled each other on the start of their eastern journey to NYC...I believe they were the Broadway Limited and the 20th Century Limited. From hearing so much about it I'm sure it was a real "race" each day. Of course both their passenger steamers doing the honors. I believe that would have been the K-4's and NYC's Hudsons. I hope I have remembered it correctly. Yes, it was a famous race....

You are very correct my friend. The Broadway and the 20th Century would make their first station stops out of Chicago at Englewood Station (no longer there except for the platforms) and leave eastbound at exactly the same time. They would "race" for the first frew miles until their respective track routings diverged and they went their seperate ways the rest of the trip. Jim (Eolafan) in Aurora, IL[:)]

[kenneo]

Ed----50 cars and 2 units would be a full train over Cajon or Beaumont -- either one. Being on the SP side, I would guess that it is a pota***rain for the cutoff. Remember the train that ran away and derailed the whole thing into some houses at the base of Cajon near Colton? Could be one of those trains.

[edblysard]

Yeah, now that you mention it, 50 cars over beaumont would be a full one.
We drag 70 and 80 cars coke trains around here with a pair of ECUX SD40-2s, but we have no real grades to deal with.
100 car plus grain trains are not uncommon down here, for the same reason.
About the only "grade" they have to deal with is the Rabbit, and thats just a little rollercoaster....
Stay Frosty,
Ed

And for all you snow birds, its 71 degrees at 5:30 pm, we are walking around in tee shirts and shorts, with a few steaks on the barbie...
Life in the swamp is good...

[dehusman]

A normal DP coal train is in the 120-135 car range.

Dave H.

[kenneo]

I'm talking about the pota***rains between the Trona at Searles to Long Beach that meet the old SP main at Mojave and over Cajon via the Palmdale-Colton cutoff and then on to Long Beach.

I don't think it is legal to burn coal in the Los Angeles Basin. But a train of that configuation could operate between Utah and LA over the LASL. But I think that it is potash.

[PNWRMNM]

Ed,

Tell them why the Rabbit is so called.

Mac

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Rats,
And here I thought I was finally going to get a look at that Polish sex manual...

Bet it was a dedicated unit train.
They set them up that way because, like wasbash pointed out, they can use DP and push as they pull, although 50 cars is kinda small, and , it saves having to cut off and run the locomotives around the train when it is emptied, the crew just gets on the other end, and away they go, no need to turn the train or the locomotives.
Was each locomotive facing away from the train? ie:one pointed south, the other one pointed north?

Stay Frosty,
Ed

Yep, the loco's were facing away from each other, it was on the UP side heading east and as I was at a crossing watching it go by my car count is only a estimate, couldn't tell if it was a loaded train or what the load was, too close. looked like coal cars, though. The cars were a light grey with extended side to make the cars higher, so maybe it was a pota***rain, though they still ship alot of coal to and from the Long Beach harbor.

Being more from the model RR side of the fence and not knowing alot about work-a-day railroading, what is DP power? Is it similar to the control system Jamtrack uses with their push-pull configurations?

[Anonymous]

DP is Distributed Power. The lead unit controls the pusher units. They lessen the drawbar forces on the leading units and help provide better braking as the pusher unit helps keep air up on the end of the train.

[northwesterner]

Just saw such a setup on the Ft. Madison train cam. It was a BNSF coal train on the old Sante Fe line. The lead engine was nose first, and the trailing D P unit was nose out also. And the coal had lots of snow on it. Does it freeze solid, and if so, how do they get it out?[?]

[edblysard]

They call it the Rabbit because it has so many dips in it if you take it at track speed, you feel just like a rabbit looks when its running.
Bounce, bounce, bounce...
Actually heard of some new guys getting sick with nausea out there.
That, and head wounds if you dont time it right and stand up at the wrong time.
One of the old SPs finest examples of who cares, as long as it dont fall over....
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

[UPTRAIN]

What the hell kind of cowl unit was that?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[kenneo]

Ed, we have another "Rabbit" between Beaverton and Hillsboro, but it only has a few dips.

I've heard about the Rabbit, but I've been told that it is something that needs to be experienced to appreciate.

I get motion sick fairly easily. Won't be down in Houston anytime soon, either.

[PNWRMNM]

To elaborate on the Rabbit. It goes up and down, undulations, and is crooked at the same time so your train is on two or three humps and sags and three or four curves at the same time. There is no way to control the slack.

Traffic is heavily weighted to haz mat, all the goodies Ed switches at Strang.

Railroad was built narrow gauge (CHEAP - CHEAP) in about the 1880's. About the only thing done to is since was to widen the gauge, put in haevier rail, and some ballast. Original name was the Houston East and West Texas. They guy I rode it with called it 'Hell Either Way Taken". It is in a class by itself. Engineers earn every bit of their pay on that line!

Mac

[daveklepper]

For anyone interested: Contact Charles Bahne at [e-mail] for information on Boston trolley car races, particularly on the 4-tracks between North Station and Haymarket, and particularly during the 1940's. Dave