Trains VS. Trucks

[JonathanS]

I agree that most European rail service is efficient, but not that they are profitable. Most of them have been heavily subsidized by the governments, even the freight. The EU countries are privatizing the rail systems now. A lot of trackage is being abandoned, or sold to short lines. Much of the local passenger service is gone.

Eastern Europe is even worse. Whole regional systems are being abandoned in these countries.

[JonathanS]

We used to get our bulk starch shipped in by pneumatic hoppers. We used one car a day. There were far too many times when we would be out of material and there would be as many as 10 cars full of our starch in the local yard 15 miles away. A call to the yardmaster asking why they weren't delivered would get a response of "I don't know." Asking if they would get delivered tomorrow would get answered "I don't know." We lost a lot of production, and income, waiting for the cars to be delivered the last 15 miles.

So now we use trucks, 4 or 5 a day. The trucking companies we are dealing will deliver to the hour we request and even unload the material for us. And the shipping is 25% less than it was by rail. Will I even try rail service again? What do you think?

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the problems railroads and truck companies have have to do with size. I work in the airline industry and the comments I hear here applied to the rails and roads also apply to the airline industry. When you had more smaller companies there was a sence of compition which made all more efficient and made you preformed better in order to court the customer. Now it is more like 'take it or leave it' cause there is some poor slob who will put up with inferrior service to save a buck if you don't like it. One of my favorite railroads was the Northern Pacific which only got better when the Milwaukee went out west. They forced the NP to become a better railroad cause they now had competition. Like I said, smaller I think is better.

[Anonymous]

Interesting comments. I've been OTR for the last 14 years. The problems I see are the companys
pushing underqualified drivers too hard which
contributes to high turnover. This results in more
companys putting more underqualified drivers on
the road. Vicious circle. I once worked for a company with 118% annual turnover rate. Go figure.
See my comments under mergers.

[Anonymous]

Quick note the violation of hours has nothing to do with the unions. I've driven out of union shops and they are no different from non union.It has to do with drivers being paid by the mile. I now drive for a company that pays by the hour and if I don't show it in my logs I don't get paid for it. Dispatchers that don't care if you've been up and going to get the load you'r under right now off but that you need to be 1000 miles away in 8 hours to pick up the next load.

[Anonymous]

I would agree. One place to look is Europe which enjoys to this day a profitable and efficient rail service.

[jsanchez]

A lot of interesting comments here, I think if the Railroads would stop these poorly executed mergers, they actually would be able to capture traffic again.
I see some encouraging things happening with Canadian National, U.P. and BNSF, with scheduled freights and trying to better utilize boxcars and improve freight car delivery. I think the railroads should really focus on improving carload traffic, hauling plastic pellets or lumber can and should be more profitable than intermodal, an average railcar can handle 3 to 5 truckloads, making hauling freight this way much less labour intensive than intermodal.( also using less fuel) I think intermodal is best for hauling mail, retail goods,perishibles,non domestic ocean containers, but it isn't well suited for many commodities. Another reason to build non-intermodal freight is that is out of the public's way. I think in the future you will see more and more communities(New York City is doing it already) try to limit truck traffic, this includes intermodal trucks also. New York City is doing all it can to encourage industry to ship by traditional railcar to help eliminate highway congestion. Conrail tried to serve New York by truck only and New York has suffered because of this.
You think in this day and age a Railroad would be able to better track a boxcar to insure that it is going to arrive on time, not 5 or 10 days late as often happens.
Most industries don't care what mode their freight is moved by, they want consistant reliable transportation and this is where most railroads fail.
I think all class 1 railroad managers should spend time getting training from shortline managers, so they can learn about real customer service, how to grow and market the business.
I also think the truck highway subsidy argument is not going to hold up much longer because the railroad industry is currently on capitol hill rattling its tin cup asking for infrastucture subsidies, which is not necessarily a bad thing, they might as well get their piece of the pie, the truckers, airlines,highway lobbyists and barge companies have been doing this for the last 50+ years. The railroad industry is a little late to catch on to things sometimes.I personally think all freight needing to travel 400 miles or longer in destination should move by rail, but not until they get their act together!!!

James

[Anonymous]

about who is subsidizing the roads, that much is true, interestingly, railroads themselves are also subsidizing the highways through corporate taxes. as for railroad managment, i couldn't agree more with you there. they will spend millions to save hundreds and in the process reduce their ability to operate reliably. it's crazy. out on the UP we see it all the time, we all talk obout how they'll spend a dollar to save a dime. as for less than carload lots, doesn't anyone remember railway express? predecessor to UPS. the railroads can operate quite efficiently if they would just look to the past and realize that they can, and this was when they were regulated big time, had full crews, steam power, jointed rail, no computers, etc. the problem is no one is accountable anymore, if a train just keeps getting later, no one get their @$$ ate out over it. everything operates (on the UP at least) like an island, Kansas City doesn't care about anything except their numbers, with absolutely no concern whatsoever for possible downstream effects from their actions. all the other yards operate this way too. there is no concern about putting a 35mph train out in front of a "hot" 70mph stack train, as long as that 35mph'er got out within the alloted time. leave that problem to the dispatcher, who usually either a)doesn't care 'cause no on else does, or b)doesn't have the time (because of overwork (saving that dime again)) to even look and see what's going on. intermodal and LCL are gold mines if they could ever get some accountability back into the system. anyway same thing, better get off the soapbox, i run for the UP, and they get me incensed quite often!

[thirdrail1]

It is not the railroads that are being raped by the trucking companies, it is the personal automobile operator. It is he and she who are subsidizing the operation of trucks on the nation's highways. Yes, trucks pay thousands of dollars a year in taxes, but, if they were to pay in proportion to the damage they do to pavement and bridges, they would be paying hundereds of thousands a year! The violation of Hours of Service laws is due to the lack of union representation in trucking. When it did exist, the union was so corrupt it cared nothing for the workers, only enriching the union officers. Look who is leading it today. Will they never learn? Railroad management has been incompetent for the last quarter century. If you cannot offer a trainload of freight, they don't want the business, not realizing that they are chasing an ever decreasing volume of bulk freight. Railroads are capable of doing a good if not a better job of handling less than carload lots than trucks. They got out of the business due to high union wages compared to teamsters at the transfer freight houses. There is some effort being put into re-entering this business by UP, while BNSF is attempting to re-enter the perishable business. Maybe a few managers have realized coal and intermodal aren't high growth industries. Better get off the soapbox now. I spent my entire career in railroad marketing, so I get incensed now and again.

[Anonymous]

Let us not that the truckers were not the ones who derailed several cars and set them on fire in that Baltimore tunnel. They did not force NS and CSX to go into debt to split Conrail and then foul up the service that Conrail had become famous for. They did not cause the service meltdown after UP bought out SP either. They do not get rail cars lost in transit. The railroads did that on their own.

On the day when this industry can, as a whole, deliver cars where they need to be, when they need to be there, on time with the contents undamaged, will be the day they can complain about the unfair advantages that highway transportation now enjoys.

It can be done if the industry will quit downsizing,quit wasting God knows how much money on mergers and start inveting in technology already available off the shelf to improve the
service.

George in Murfreesboro

[Anonymous]

It is interesting, this competition. I find that they need each other. The current cash cow for railroads (excepting coal) is intermodel which needs trucks. I think a good balance is what we need. Trucks can haul the meat, door to door but let trains handle the coal and bulk loads.

[Anonymous]

lets get this out. i am an over the road truck driver, and an avid railfan/model railroader, and all i seem to hear is the train people ripping on trucks, and how the government finances the roads, but not the rails. what about the 15 to 25,000.00 a year each truck pays in taxes, permits, etc...?? as to the safety regulations, the trucking industry does need better enforcement and better regulations. while i am on the road, i hear many truck drivers talking about running well over their hours, and running overweight etc.. some type of recorder is definately needed in all trucks if anything is ever going to change. seems most of the truck drivers are mis-informed about the railroads. they whine about government subsidies given to the railroads, and that the trains are taking away their freight. i think it is the other way around. (have you ever tried to tell anything to a trucker when he already has his mind made up? id doesn't do much good) any comments would be greatly appreciated on this topic, and i would be happy to answer any questions (if i am ever home)