Car v train in Lombard IL

[jeffhergert]

I tried to find the WLS report, but their site takes years to load anything, and a search for "Tani" takes me to tanning beds.  Here is a report from the Orlando Sentinel, which also says the gates did not come down, citing WLS as the source.  I will try to contact WLS, but I have found that it is usually impossible to have a conversation with a local TV news station.  They feel that they tell us everything we need to know, so there is no reason for us to ask a question.

http://www.local6.com/news/14894525/detail.html

Quote from the link:  "Tani's mother was stopped behind a school bus at a railroad crossing and the gates apparently did not come down, WLS-TV, an ABC Network News affiliate reported."

 

I am not sure where the word, "apparently" came from.  That could be the Sentinel's word meaning that the information was apparent from the WLS report.  If the word came from the WLS report, it seems to indicate some degree of uncertainty about the statement that the gates did not come down.  It might also indicate that the reporter believes that the only possible explanation for the crash was that the gates failed to come down.

I used "Rose Tani" on google.  On or about page 12 of the responses was a link to a print version of one from WLS-TV from 12/20.  It may be an update and not the original story.  

It states she went around the bus and lowered gate.

Here's the link:

  http://www.abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5845833&pt=print

 Jeff  

[Poppa_Zit]

It's not for rating points, Jim. It is ignorance.

This is what you get when you hire TV news people based on looks.

One of the news anchors on Channel 7 was a Honey Bear (Chicago Bears cheerleader) when I covered the team in the early 1980s.

Fortunately, they hire for radio news based on ability.  

[eolafan]

I'll bet you a lunch that if a similar situation happened on the paved roads, the reports on TV would not have been the same.  Let's say this woman was driving on a road that intersected a major downstate highway with "at grade" crossings for rural roads and a semi tractor-trailer was traveling down the major highway doing the speed limit (let's say 65 mph, which is pretty common and just about the same as the UP main line in question), and the woman passed a stopped school bus that was also waiting to cross the major highway, and her car was then hit by the semi doing 65 mph and she was killed...DO YOU THINK THE TV REPORTER WOULD HAVE BEEN SO QUICK TO REPORT ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE TRUCK....NO WAY JOSE...THEY WOULD HAVE TURNED TO SOME OTHER ASPECT OF THE ACCIDENT TO BLAME...so why in heck are the TV reporters blaming train speed here...other than for ratings points? (Gee whiz, I think I just answered my own question!).

[Anonymous]

I tried to find the WLS report, but their site takes years to load anything, and a search for "Tani" takes me to tanning beds.  Here is a report from the Orlando Sentinel, which also says the gates did not come down, citing WLS as the source.  I will try to contact WLS, but I have found that it is usually impossible to have a conversation with a local TV news station.  They feel that they tell us everything we need to know, so there is no reason for us to ask a question.

http://www.local6.com/news/14894525/detail.html

Quote from the link:  "Tani's mother was stopped behind a school bus at a railroad crossing and the gates apparently did not come down, WLS-TV, an ABC Network News affiliate reported."

 

I am not sure where the word, "apparently" came from.  That could be the Sentinel's word meaning that the information was apparent from the WLS report.  If the word came from the WLS report, it seems to indicate some degree of uncertainty about the statement that the gates did not come down.  It might also indicate that the reporter believes that the only possible explanation for the crash was that the gates failed to come down.

[jeffhergert]

There is a lot of truth in what Bucyrus says.  Last winter, a mother and possibly a child were killed in a car accident on a rural highway west of Des Moines.  I forget if it was a single car accident or is she pulled out in front of another vehicle.  It was snowing at the time, but not excessively.

(No matter how one looks at it, or who is at fault, any fatal accident is a tragedy.  I think what gets our ire in ones involving trains is that the public mostly blames the railroad.)  

One of the  Des Moines TV station blamed it on weather conditions.  They obviously had a great amount of sympathy and didn't want the image that she had caused it without extenuating circumstances. 

A different DM TV station, while no less sympathetic, interviewed a law officer who said weather conditions were not a factor.

It seems there are those who can't accept that people, especially those who fit a certain profile in our minds, make mistakes.  It has to be someone/something else's fault.

My original post about what appeared in the DM Register was because of that.  That paper would be one that would rather blame the railroad (a big evil corporation) rather than the driver (a sweet little old lady, someone's mother). 

Jeff   

[Anonymous]

The Des Moines Register in their Dec. 20th edition had this:

"Rose Tani, 90, apparently went around a school bus at a railroad crossing in Lombard, Ill., where the gates did not come down, and was hit by the train, according to WLS-TV."

Well is that what happeded or not?  It is certainly not an insignigicant detail.  If the signals failed, that changes the whole story from what is usually the case with these grade crossing crashes.  I think we need to go back and find out what happened.

If the gates were functioning, I sure would like to see some kind of confirmation that WLS-TV reported they were not. 

Maybe the gate came down on the school bus, and could not fully lower.  Maybe the school bus driver is partly at fault for stopping too close to the crossing. 

It certainly would be interesting to learn what actually happened in this news event.

ALSO:  "Passing a stopped school bus" is a very loaded statement.  You cannot pass them when they are stopped with their lights flashing and stop arm extended.  And you cannot pass anything at a railroad crossing.  But you can pass a stopped school bus if its lights are not flashing and stop arm is not extended.  And a stopped school bus does obstruct the view.

Let me ask this:  When school buses stop at a grade crossing, are their drivers supposed to turn on the flashing stop lights and extend the stop arm?  Or are they prohibited from doing so?  Or is it optional?

Please read my post right above yours.  I was within a couple of hundred feet of the accident scene within about ten minutes of the time it happened, arriving soon after ambulance and fire equipment.  The gate for northbound traffic was fully lowered, and signal lights were flashing.  The school bus was an adequate distance back from the lowered gate.

You're right--you can't pass a school bus, and you can't pass anything at a grade crossing.  You can't drive around lowered gates, either--but she attempted to.  Also, Mrs. Tani was a local resident, and, according to her children, drove only on familiar roads.  None of this makes sense--as I said before, one has to wonder what she was thinking as she did all of the things she did.

School buses in Illinois, when they perform the mandatory stop for grade crossings, usually flash yellow flashers, stop, and open the door to listen.  Putting on the red lights and extending the stop flag (the "arm" on our school buses extends forward to prevent students from cutting too close in front) would require oncoming traffic to stop--right on the crossing.  Forget about that!

As I also mentioned, the media aren't always the brightest bulbs in the string.  WMAQ TV gave the wrong grade crossing in their report (in this case the "miss" was nearly a mile!), WBBM Radio reported that it was a Metra train that hit the car (UP stack train--not even a Metra engine to confuse anybody), so if WLS reported gates not lowered, it might have been a little more malicious, but was still par for the course.

Eventually, of course, we'll have the download from the grade crossing itself, and just possibly an on-board camera.  But I'm not worried.

CShaveRR,

Thanks for the information.  I agree that most TV reporters often have no idea what they are saying.  Their biggest sin is leaving things out such as failing to address the 600-pound gorilla question that is the underpinning of their story.  They also bias their reporting according to the dictates of political correctness. 

I have seen FOX 9 TV report a car/truck collision and actually try to imply blame on the truck driver because the people in the car fit a media template of victimhood.  But the car entered a highway at right angles without yielding to the truck.  The truck driver had no way of avoiding the collision.  Yet FOX 9 went back and dug up his driving record, which indicated that he had failed to stop for a stop sign in the past.  To make their point that the truck driver was bad, FOX reported that he BLEW through a stop sign. 

Obvioulsy their embellishment with the word, "BLEW" was intended to reinforce their implication that the truck driver had to be bad because the people in the car were good.  Other than their snide insinuation that the truck driver was at fault, they made no objective mention of the actual subject of fault in this serious accident that resulted in the deaths of several people in the car.

I only bring up the questions of the role of the school bus and the gate/signal performance, because the WLS report calls it all into question.  Falsely reporting that the gates malfunctioned in a fatal grade crossing accident needs to be addressed.  I will call WLS next week, and ask them for an explanation and source of their information.

[CShaveRR]

The Des Moines Register in their Dec. 20th edition had this:

"Rose Tani, 90, apparently went around a school bus at a railroad crossing in Lombard, Ill., where the gates did not come down, and was hit by the train, according to WLS-TV."

Well is that what happeded or not?  It is certainly not an insignigicant detail.  If the signals failed, that changes the whole story from what is usually the case with these grade crossing crashes.  I think we need to go back and find out what happened.

If the gates were functioning, I sure would like to see some kind of confirmation that WLS-TV reported they were not. 

Maybe the gate came down on the school bus, and could not fully lower.  Maybe the school bus driver is partly at fault for stopping too close to the crossing. 

It certainly would be interesting to learn what actually happened in this news event.

ALSO:  "Passing a stopped school bus" is a very loaded statement.  You cannot pass them when they are stopped with their lights flashing and stop arm extended.  And you cannot pass anything at a railroad crossing.  But you can pass a stopped school bus if its lights are not flashing and stop arm is not extended.  And a stopped school bus does obstruct the view.

Let me ask this:  When school buses stop at a grade crossing, are their drivers supposed to turn on the flashing stop lights and extend the stop arm?  Or are they prohibited from doing so?  Or is it optional?

Please read my post right above yours.  I was within a couple of hundred feet of the accident scene within about ten minutes of the time it happened, arriving soon after ambulance and fire equipment.  The gate for northbound traffic was fully lowered, and signal lights were flashing.  The school bus was an adequate distance back from the lowered gate.

You're right--you can't pass a school bus, and you can't pass anything at a grade crossing.  You can't drive around lowered gates, either--but she attempted to.  Also, Mrs. Tani was a local resident, and, according to her children, drove only on familiar roads.  None of this makes sense--as I said before, one has to wonder what she was thinking as she did all of the things she did.

School buses in Illinois, when they perform the mandatory stop for grade crossings, usually flash yellow flashers, stop, and open the door to listen.  Putting on the red lights and extending the stop flag (the "arm" on our school buses extends forward to prevent students from cutting too close in front) would require oncoming traffic to stop--right on the crossing.  Forget about that!

As I also mentioned, the media aren't always the brightest bulbs in the string.  WMAQ TV gave the wrong grade crossing in their report (in this case the "miss" was nearly a mile!), WBBM Radio reported that it was a Metra train that hit the car (UP stack train--not even a Metra engine to confuse anybody), so if WLS reported gates not lowered, it might have been a little more malicious, but was still par for the course.

Eventually, of course, we'll have the download from the grade crossing itself, and just possibly an on-board camera.  But I'm not worried.

[Poppa_Zit]

On the night of the crash, I was watching the 10:00 news on Channel 5 WMAQ.  They had a local reporter on the scene, and the topic that she stressed the most was the speed of train traffic in the area.  That was the last of her report that I saw, my wife changed the channel when I started yelling at the TV.........

Over the years I've met many standup reporters from Chicago TV stations, in various situations. Those who were truly impressive could be counted on one hand.

[n012944]

I've said this before, and I'm saying it again.

I wish the grey matter-challenged local news media would learn how to write headlines about these incidents.

Why not

Woman killed driving car in front of train

instead of

Train hits car, kills woman driver

The second one implies blame on the train and I suppose the engineer.

Aaaaargh! 

On the night of the crash, I was watching the 10:00 news on Channel 5 WMAQ.  They had a local reporter on the scene, and the topic that she stressed the most was the speed of train traffic in the area.  That was the last of her report that I saw, my wife changed the channel when I started yelling at the TV.........

[Mr_Ash]

Geez, as if going around the gates wernt bad enough now we got going around a stopped school bus.

 

[spokyone]

This is from the Sun Times. The story matches an eyewitness statement broadcast on  ABC.

The Des Moines Register in their Dec. 20th edition had this:

 "Rose Tani, 90, apparently went around a school bus at a railroad crossing in Lombard, Ill., where the gates did not come down, and was hit by the train, according to WLS-TV."

Well is that what happeded or not?  It is certainly not an insignigicant detail.  If the signals failed, that changes the whole story from what is usually the case with these grade crossing crashes.  I think we need to go back and find out what happened.

If the gates were functioning, I sure would like to see some kind of confirmation that WLS-TV reported they were not. 

Maybe the gate came down on the school bus, and could not fully lower.  Maybe the school bus driver is partly at fault for stopping too close to the crossing. 

It certainly would be interesting to learn what actually happened in this news event.

ALSO:  "Passing a stopped school bus" is a very loaded statement.  You cannot pass them when they are stopped with their lights flashing and stop arm extended.  And you cannot pass anything at a railroad crossing.  But you can pass a stopped school bus if its lights are not flashing and stop arm is not extended.  And a stopped school bus does obstruct the view.

Let me ask this:  When school buses stop at a grade crossing, are their drivers supposed to turn on the flashing stop lights and extend the stop arm?  Or are they prohibited from doing so?  Or is it optional?

The 90-year-old mother of Space Shuttle astronaut Dan Tani was killed today by a freight train when she drove around a lowered railroad gate in Lombard, police said.

Rose Tani, who was driving a Honda Civic, was pronounced dead at Advocate Good Samaritan Hospital in Downers Grove. Authorities said crossing gates and warning signals appeared to be functioning properly at the intersection of Elizabeth Street and Union Pacific Railroad tracks, the site of the incident.

» Click to enlarge image Rose Tani stands next to a wall filled with photos of her family, including astronaut Daniel Tani (top left). Rose Tani was killed Wednesday when a freight train hit her car in Lombard.
(Steve Grzanich/WBBM 780)

PHOTO GALLERY

• Astronaut Dan Tani

 

Police said Rose Tani, who lived in Lombard, apparently became impatient when she was stopped behind a Glenbard East High School bus. She honked her horn and went around the bus heading northbound when the westbound train struck her car. Students on the school bus returned to the high school where authorities made crisis counselors available, said police Lt. Jim Glennon.

The incident occurred at 2:42 p.m. The train was heading to Clinton, Iowa. It had left Northlake.

 

My own personal observations are the buses turn on flashing lights when stopping at grade  crossings,( whether gates are down or not), but do not extend the stop paddle.

[MP173]

With the son being in space, I am sure we will find out what exactly happened as this is a high profile case.

I cannot imagine not being able to be there.  I wish him well.

ed

[Anonymous]

The Des Moines Register in their Dec. 20th edition had this:

 "Rose Tani, 90, apparently went around a school bus at a railroad crossing in Lombard, Ill., where the gates did not come down, and was hit by the train, according to WLS-TV."

Well is that what happeded or not?  It is certainly not an insignigicant detail.  If the signals failed, that changes the whole story from what is usually the case with these grade crossing crashes.  I think we need to go back and find out what happened.

If the gates were functioning, I sure would like to see some kind of confirmation that WLS-TV reported they were not. 

Maybe the gate came down on the school bus, and could not fully lower.  Maybe the school bus driver is partly at fault for stopping too close to the crossing. 

It certainly would be interesting to learn what actually happened in this news event.

ALSO:  "Passing a stopped school bus" is a very loaded statement.  You cannot pass them when they are stopped with their lights flashing and stop arm extended.  And you cannot pass anything at a railroad crossing.  But you can pass a stopped school bus if its lights are not flashing and stop arm is not extended.  And a stopped school bus does obstruct the view.

Let me ask this:  When school buses stop at a grade crossing, are their drivers supposed to turn on the flashing stop lights and extend the stop arm?  Or are they prohibited from doing so?  Or is it optional?

[CShaveRR]

I didn't watch WLS' coverage, so don't know if the statement came from them.

But I was close enough to see the lowered gates.  Of course there wouldn't have been a gate between the car and the train--she was in the wrong lane, going around a school bus!

[jeffhergert]

The Des Moines Register in their Dec. 20th edition had this:

 "Rose Tani, 90, apparently went around a school bus at a railroad crossing in Lombard, Ill., where the gates did not come down, and was hit by the train, according to WLS-TV."

The other day I had CNN on and heard this story.  I don't remember the exact wording of the reporter(s), but I know I thought the words they were using were sensationalizing the incident.  I know, not unusual for the media.  I don't think they mentioned that she drove around lowered gates.  A lot easier to blame someone else (the train in this case) for a person's lapse in judgement.

Jeff 

 

[eolafan]

I've said this before, and I'm saying it again.

I wish the grey matter-challenged local news media would learn how to write headlines about these incidents.

Why not

Woman killed driving car in front of train

instead of

Train hits car, kills woman driver

The second one implies blame on the train and I suppose the engineer.

Aaaaargh! 

Right on PZ, but the media gets better ratings using their headline.

[Poppa_Zit]

I've said this before, and I'm saying it again.

I wish the grey matter-challenged local news media would learn how to write headlines about these incidents.

Why not

Woman killed driving car in front of train

instead of

Train hits car, kills woman driver

The second one implies blame on the train and I suppose the engineer.

Aaaaargh! 

[ndbprr]

The driver was 90 years old and the mother of one of our astronauts currently on the space station.  he Won;t be back for several months. 

[CShaveRR]

That same intersection used to be a great place to get your jalopy airborn when you were a teenager, before they leveled it all out. Or so I heard.

Yes it was!!!  I grew up in Lombard on the south side of Roosevelt, but had many friends that lived north of St. Charles.  As long as church wasn't letting out I would be able to get some good air there.

Oh, yeah!  We saner people used to tread very lightly over that one.  (In fact I had been thinking about how smooth the crossing still was when I went over it the morning before the incident.)

Couldn't fly any more, though--they put a stop sign northbound on Elizabeth ahead of Parkside (to allow left-turners crossing the tracks to get out of the way).

I'll bet you could have gotten airborne at Park Blvd., though, when it was still open!

[n012944]

 

That same intersection used to be a great place to get your jalopy airborn when you were a teenager, before they leveled it all out. Or so I heard.

 

Yes it was!!!  I grew up in Lombard on the south side of Roosevelt, but had many friends that lived north of St. Charles.  As long as church wasn't letting out I would be able to get some good air there.

[CShaveRR]

While this story is certainly tragic and sad (not to mention that it did NOT have to happen)...it is testament to the fact that just because you may be older and have lived a long time and have seen a lot, you are NOTnecessarily either smart or practice common sense.  This accident did NOT have to happen if the victim had NOTviolated the law of not passing a stopped school bus and then if she had followed the message of the very old saying "look-listen-live" offered to all of us for so many years by Operation Lifesaver.

One just has to wonder what was going through her mind as she sat behind the school bus and honked, then drove around it.  The bus would have blocked her view of the train as she was alongside it, but it shouldn't have when she was behind it--and there are enough gates and lights at that crossing to be seen from anywhere.  The bus would also have hidden the car from the train crew until it was too late to even sound the horn for her.

When I got as close as I could to the crossing yesterday, I saw the school bus sitting there--and I just hoped that it hadn't been directly involved (I knew it had to have been involved somehow, or it wouldn't have stayed there). 

[BaltACD]

...

Westbound freight's coming, I can't back up because traffic is packed. I can't go forward because traffic is packed. I had time to consider wether or not my roll bar would help my cause and how much trouble I'd get in if I bashed the car in front of me to get the hell out of the way.

... 

mxr

Jeep roll bars are decorative....not protective.

[Anonymous]

MXR: Ouch! I would've abandoned the car once the train got really close! (maybe the insurance company would pay for it.....) The roll bars probobly wouldn't do anything, BTW.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for setting me straight, Carl!

Here's something else I remembered after I posted last night -- I'd just gotten my first big-boy car with my own money, a 1994 Jeep Wrangler. Traffic had stopped at that same intersection on Elizabeth and St. Charles and I was on the south side of the tracks. So far, so good. 

The stoplight went green and my traffic started moving. Some turkey blows the light and almost causes an accident. Traffic stops with me on the tracks. So far, maybe not so good. 

The guy who ran the light stopped in the intersection and got in a screaming match with someone who almost hit him. Out of the car pointing and waving. There's three of us on the tracks, I'm in the middle. So far, they are wasting my time and I'm starting to get uncomfortable. Much honking in the column of stopped traffic. Sure enough, the gates go down. So far, so bad.

Westbound freight's coming, I can't back up because traffic is packed. I can't go forward because traffic is packed. I had time to consider wether or not my roll bar would help my cause and how much trouble I'd get in if I bashed the car in front of me to get the hell out of the way. 

Traffic moved, the day was saved, I'm sure the crew gave us all the finger as we got the hell out of the way and the train passed. 

There was much shaking afterward and swearing and the coppery taste of adrenaline. Sucked.

That same intersection used to be a great place to get your jalopy airborn when you were a teenager, before they leveled it all out. Or so I heard.

mxr

[eolafan]

While this story is certainly tragic and sad (not to mention that it did NOT have to happen)...it is testament to the fact that just because you may be older and have lived a long time and have seen a lot, you are NOTnecessarily either smart or practice common sense.  This accident did NOT have to happen if the victim had NOTviolated the law of not passing a stopped school bus and then if she had followed the message of the very old saying "look-listen-live" offered to all of us for so many years by Operation Lifesaver.

[Krazykat112079]

Carl -

Isn't that you home base?That would be the UP Metra line, yes?

Chico

Except for the CSS&SB, all commuter trains into and out of Chicago are run by Metra, a governmental-type agency supported by, among other things, part of our sales tax.

Lombard is on the old West line of the UP, previously C&NW.  There are two other UP commuter lines:  Northwest and West, and they comprise all of the rail transportation into and out of the Ogilvie Transportation Center downtown, west of the Chicago River.  Before Ogilvie and a skycraper on top were built, it was commonly referred to as "C(and)NW Station."  Old-timers like me occasionally slip and use the old term. 

 

As long as C&NW are carved into the entryway (skyway entrance), I will call it the Northwest Station!  Is it not true that UP operates the METRA trains on its 3 lines?

[Mr_Ash]

They just said on the radio that the woman was 90yr old

[spokyone]

On local news: An eyewitness said the woman drove around a schoolbus and became trapped. (Her words.)

[CShaveRR]

Welcome, MXR!

Your DuPage River story is just a legend.  I do remember one wreck on the curve there, but that wasn't the hazmat spill.  The one that made the news was the Glen Ellyn wreck in May 1976--a car of anhydrous ammonia ruptured and caused an evacuation.  When the vapors were hosed down, they got into the Glen Ellyn storm sewer system, and flowed into Lake Ellyn, killing all of the fish there.

By the way, my avatar photo was made from the intersection at the crossing where the incident occurred.  There's no problem at all with visibility at this point.