Writing menu orders on dining cars

[al-in-chgo]

During the hey day of Class I passenger operations, not only were Black Waiter's, potentially under educated....a vast number of all rail workers were under educated.  It was not uncommon for Train and Engine service employee to only have a 3rd grade education...they could read and write at a very elementary level, a level which the verbage used in train orders did not exceed.  For people that grew up duing the years of the depression, an education, for a great number of people was a luxury that their battle for daily existance would not permit and they attempted to enter the work force a very young ages in order to supplement their family's income.

You may be interested to know that the school population, and the average length of time spent in school increased during the 30s. While high school graduation was still a minority experience (1951 is ringing a bell when more than 50% of 18 year olds received a diploma in the US), more children and teens were going to school and staying longer than ever before. The most common explanation is the lack economic possibilities for youth the working world. During economic downturns, people generally opt for more schooling if they don't see good prospects in the workforce.

 

OT, but I've read the same thing and agree with you.  Public high school did not become a major American educational player until the Great Depression.  IMO but after 70 years one must ask why it isn't working very well for college prep. 

 

[cprted]

During the hey day of Class I passenger operations, not only were Black Waiter's, potentially under educated....a vast number of all rail workers were under educated.  It was not uncommon for Train and Engine service employee to only have a 3rd grade education...they could read and write at a very elementary level, a level which the verbage used in train orders did not exceed.  For people that grew up duing the years of the depression, an education, for a great number of people was a luxury that their battle for daily existance would not permit and they attempted to enter the work force a very young ages in order to supplement their family's income.

You may be interested to know that the school population, and the average length of time spent in school increased during the 30s. While high school graduation was still a minority experience (1951 is ringing a bell when more than 50% of 18 year olds received a diploma in the US), more children and teens were going to school and staying longer than ever before. The most common explanation is the lack economic possibilities for youth the working world. During economic downturns, people generally opt for more schooling if they don't see good prospects in the workforce.

[Dakguy201]

BaltACD's observation about the literacy level of the railroad's workforce could be a factor.  However, those same comments might apply to the literacy of the diners themselves; certainly some individuals were sucessful enough to afford the dining car experience without being literate.  One wonders by what devices they managed to order?   

[Modelcar]

...I too, do not really know the reason for written orders, but...I'd side with several posts above....The education issue being a factor many decades ago and very well might have been the original reason for it.

[eastside]

I clearly remember instructions to the effect that diners had to hand write their orders when I rode the Twentieth Century Limited in the fifties.  Even though I was a kid, somehow I must have managed to write "Lobster Newburg" and "prime rib of roast beef" because those are two of the meals I remember eating.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

If I recall dining car customers were required to print their orders. This was also required even on the New Haven's grill cars and the Pennsy's lunch counter lounge cars on the Senator and the Congressional.

Considering my handwriting (rooster scratching?) was or is writing dining car orders is such a good idea? Even my printing is bad.    

[BaltACD]

Could also be a hold-over from when the Black Waiters were Un(der)educated and possibly could not write.  Having the patron write the order themselves eliminated the need for the water to know how to spell or write.

I've never heard a racial angle put to it before.  When I was a boy we rode Southern Rwy. trains a couple of times, and I thought that writing the order was to prevent miscommunication.  Passenger trains could be noisy, especially during the "clickety-clack" era, and writing it down helped.  The Southern insisted that no spoken orders be taken. 

 

During the hey day of Class I passenger operations, not only were Black Waiter's, potentially under educated....a vast number of all rail workers were under educated.  It was not uncommon for Train and Engine service employee to only have a 3rd grade education...they could read and write at a very elementary level, a level which the verbage used in train orders did not exceed.  For people that grew up duing the years of the depression, an education, for a great number of people was a luxury that their battle for daily existance would not permit and they attempted to enter the work force a very young ages in order to supplement their family's income.

The written Dining Car order was common among all Dining Car operations of the Class I carriers. 

In reaity, written orders, or computer touch screen orders, would not be a totally bad idea in today's food businesses, how many times have waiter/waitress's totally blown an order, even though they wrote down what they heard.

[CShaveRR]

I have a feeling that Charles has the right idea, and that it probably didn't need to be held over as long as it was.

I remember doing this on a Great Northern (oops--it had been BN for two days at the time!) diner in 1970--trying to write with a stubby pencil over jointed CB&Q rail.  I'm surprised that anyone could read it!

[al-in-chgo]

Could also be a hold-over from when the Black Waiters were Un(der)educated and possibly could not write.  Having the patron write the order themselves eliminated the need for the water to know how to spell or write.

I've never heard a racial angle put to it before.  When I was a boy we rode Southern Rwy. trains a couple of times, and I thought that writing the order was to prevent miscommunication.  Passenger trains could be noisy, especially during the "clickety-clack" era, and writing it down helped.  The Southern insisted that no spoken orders be taken. 

 

[Semper Vaporo]

Could also be a hold-over from when the Black Waiters were Un(der)educated and possibly could not write.  Having the patron write the order themselves eliminated the need for the water to know how to spell or write.

[diningcar]

Not a union rule. It was they same on all RR's and my take on it is this:

1. The waiters were predominately black, at least prior to AMTRAK, and some of the travelers would use any excuse to harass one of them.

2. The waiters were very professional and polite, in my experiences, and would answer all questions with knowledge and courtesy. However, the policy of the RR's was to have the patrons specifically order their choices thus minimizing misunderstandings.

I have never seen a controversy from this practice.

 

[Piedsou]

Tuesday at our weekly model railroad operating meeting, one of the participants had small Christmas presents for everyone.  One of them was a unused Southern Railway dining car service check. As usual it read, 'Please Write Order Below, Waiters Not Permitted to Accept Orders Unless Written".  The simple question that none of the present members could answer was "Why?'  Was it a union agreement?  It seemed to be the norm for all railroads. What brought about this arangement?  Does anyone know?

Thanks in advance.

Dale Latham