Late trains running later

[pacificelectric]

As recently I've "enjoyed" a ride on the six hours late Sunset Limited, "Late trains running later" is my favourite. (But save for the on-time-performance the ride was a great pleasure).

As a former train dispatcher for Austrian Federal Railways I could see cleary that train dispatching isn't easy on the Sunset Route, but it's amazing that UP isn't able to keep six trains a week (!!) on time.

[jchnhtfd]

Isn't it amazing? It does make one wonder, just a little bit... CSX has the same problem with the Lakeshore on the old NYC water level route (although lately some of the troubles have to do with frozen switches and such like!)

[Anonymous]

The Sunset Route is overcrowded, especially the single-track portions. Add to this sidings that are parked full when they are short of crews or there is a derailment or trackwork in progress. Now they've added the UPS Z trains into the mix. Makes for interesting trainwatching, but Amtrak becomes less and less of a priority.


John

[Anonymous]

Hell, the Lake Shore Limited (a.k.a. "Late Shore Limited") has been running up to 9 hours behind of late (pun intended)...

LC

[cnw4001]

While I'm not here to apologize for the railroads, consider the passenger trains have a "slot" allocated and when they get out of that "slot" they just have to fight with everyone else for "track time.' This holds true on the "passenger only" lines as well. Just ask anyone in the know what happens when Amtrak arrives late for one of their slots on Metro-North.

You can test this yourself. Go out on any busy freight line and watch things come to a halt when an Amtrak is due and then watch business "pick up" after the Amtrak goes by. This is especially true where the freight road has to run Amtrak "against the flow" to make a platform or worse hold the other track whlle Amtrak stops at a wooden pedestrian crossing two or three times due to train length and the freight road can't enter the station because the passengers are walking from say, track 2 across track 1 to the main platform. More than once I've witnessed this.

Yes, they should be able to keep them going while in their slot but once they fall behind, all bets are off.

[UPTRAIN]

It's not really amazing and sometimes it's not the dispatching's fault...through here the Texas Eagle has to negotiate 28 slow orders in about 160 miles!!!!!!!!! It is hardly in the hole but the speed restrictions here kill them.

[Anonymous]

As sad and frustrating it is, its better late than never. Better than sitting in an airplane with a drunk pilot in the cockpit.

[UPTRAIN]

(UPTRAIN'S SON) In the words of Snoop Dogg...fur rizzle!!!!

[jeaton]

Bob Johnston wrote an article about this in February Trains. He noted that Amtrak has padded schedules in an effort to get some improvement in on-time performance. I wrote the following comments in a letter to the editor.

"I agree with Bob Johnston’s view that padded schedules don’t address the causes of train delays, but I don’t think it is such a bad idea. Padded or not, the schedule obviously comes into play when the decision is made to take the train. After that, the traveler wants to arrive as planned, and if the extra time in the schedule makes that possible, a major customer satisfaction goal has been met.

"I do think that Amtrak is making an effort to address some of the causes of delays. Aided by the elimination of the express business, the switching to make up trains at terminals and intermediate points appears to be working better. I’d guess that there is greater emphasis placed on routine inspection and maintenance with the objective of reducing en-route equipment failures. And, while government funding will be far below the request, I am sure that work on the Northeast Corridor will continue until the money runs out.

"The article is right on the mark on the issue of poor train dispatching by host railroads. While taking only two or three trips a year, I have been stopped in situations where we would have cleared a junction or crossing without delaying the freight. As Matt Rose and his people at BNSF have demonstrated, top management attitude and discipline at the operating level can reduce dispatch delays, and I doubt that just goes to passenger trains. Maybe some small portion of the $20 million bonus they earned went toward a capacity project that benefited Amtrak. While no where near all that is needed, any improvement is still available for freight train use for over 23 hours a day. Is that such a bad deal?"

To add a little, I would agree that line capacity is a real and growing problem and where that is the problem even the sharpest dispatching with due priority for an Amtrak train won't get the job done. It is issue of the acceptance of the priority that galls. When a railroad CEO says that passenger trains should go away, what would one expect the dispatcher to do? Stick the UPS train?

But then suppose all those thing I spoke of were solved. Amtrak gets all their stuff in line, billions are spent on track, siding and signals, and dispatchers perform flawlessly, never causing any train to even slow down-then what? Freight cars derail, snow and ice storms happen, vehicles and pedestrians get hit, or a mentally ill individual walks off a train moving at 60 MPH. (That actually caused a 3 hour delay on my last trip. It happened before I boarded. The guy survived).

I guess I'll have to go back to driving or flying where those kinds of delays NEVER happen.

[Anonymous]

If an Amtrak train is always late 3 hours, why not just add those 3 hours into the timetable? Then it wouldnt be late, would it?[:D]

[jeaton]

Alex, Nice idea, but, as the article points out, the padding doesn't help very much. I thought maybe subtract 3 hours from the schedule and then the train might get there somewhere around the original plan. (I'm to lazy to look up the laughing face).

Jay

P.S. Could you maybe send the cold air to Siberia, it's been nasty here.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

In a way I can see where some of Amtrak's host railroads' CEO's are coming from since some of their business is "Just-In-Time" shipments which the railroads must get to their destinations by a certain time under contract. If they have a late-running Amtrak train competing with a hot intermodal train guess who gets the priority. Many times the Amtrak trains run late because of their operational problems which are not associated with freight train interference such as having to double or even triple a stop at a small wayside station because the platform isn't long enough; often there is no allowance made for this in the schedule.

Railroads always have had some time recovery built into their schedules so a train could be late at its last stop before its final destination but on-time at its final destination, and Amtrak is no different except that some of its time recovery allowances might be excessive.

When Amtrak was set up it had to have the right of access to any freight railroad, and its trains must receive priority dispatching by law; I believe this is still the case. I feel it'is time for Amtrak to base its payments on on-time performance instead of being accorded the federally mandated right of access to fright railroads and its trains and priority dispatching for its trains.

[pacificelectric]

We encountered the problem of padded schedules on our Western Main Line (Austria) years ago. In 1991 the average Intercity train was 5 minutes late. Beginning in 1993 the new management added up to 15 minutes to the schedules and in 2001 the trains were still 5 mins late (in spite of adding lots of capacity and reducing train numbers from 300 to 260 on an average weekday). Now the trains are again as fast as ten years ago (before investing EUR 1,5bn)---and some of the are still late. No one really cared for the root of the delays.

The only matter that keeps me from complaining is, that we talk about five minutes and not hours or days *grin*

And a short message to UP and CSX: it's a matter of fact that the route of the Sunset Limited is congested, but I'm sure there's a way to keep (not even) ONE BLOODY TRAIN A DAY on time ...

[jeaton]

Rudy, I believe the Federal Mandate for average speeds was dropped in 1997 when the "glide
---------------------path
--------------------------to
----------------------------opperational
------------------------------self-
-------------------------------sufficiency"
was invented. The Amtrak contract with the host railroads now contain bonus\penalty performance provisions. I would guess that there are numerous clauses addressing the issue of who is at fault for any delay. It is interesting that BNSF has collected nice bonus money, where generally the other hosts appearantly not making as great an effort to get the job done.

I agree with our correspondent from Australia. However, I won't lay blame on the "desk". The UP's CEO has publicly expressed his disdain for passenger trains, and the current CSX CEO is struggling to catch up on maintenance defered by the former CEO to make the earnings "look good".

Never-the-less, it is my contention that if the top guys were to frequently ask why the (fill in your favorite expletive) train is late, there would be some interesting improvements.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Alex, Nice idea, but, as the article points out, the padding doesn't help very much. I thought maybe subtract 3 hours from the schedule and then the train might get there somewhere around the original plan. (I'm to lazy to look up the laughing face).

Jay

P.S. Could you maybe send the cold air to Siberia, it's been nasty here.

The cold air sure went somewhere else than Alaska.... it was 42 today.

[jeaton]

Oh, I was wondering why a family friend down for a visit seemed so anxious to get back. Just broke 0 in sunny southern WI. So cold I would have taken a pass even if the UP Steam Engine was coming through my town. Not!

[Anonymous]

Well the Eagle seems to be on time alot and look at the Late Shore Limited It's ALWAYS LATE

[eolafan]

For what it might be worth, the Metra trains on the BNSF to Aurora are so prompt you can virtually set your watch by them...but Amtrak, that's another story altogether, what day is it when Amtrak comes through town?

[UPTRAIN]

I have run the Texas Eagle a few times south to Little Rock and I have been in the hole like 3 times in 20 trips!!!!

[jeaton]

With credit where credit is due, the TE performance has improved greatly. I believe there was a substantial amount of work done on the route and that has probably helped. I haven't tracked it, but I suppose if the EB Sunset is way late at San Antonio, the Eagle gets hit.

I have this luxury, but if I have a specific event to catch, I go a day early.

As long as I am back, a story. Last spring, my mother, who is 89 years young, went with me Chicago to Washington, DC on the Capitol Limited. On the way out one of those d*** express boxes (that do nothing more than block the view from the rear coach window) had a dragging brake and got a flat spot so bad that it had to be set out at the nearest siding. By the time..., four hours.

I got to see Cleveland to Pittsburgh in daylight. My mother said that she liked having another four hours on a train. "Besides, you think this is bad? Let tell you about the time The Empire Builder was trying to operate through or around the big floods on the Upper Missippi." Each spring for over ten years, she would take Amtrak from Wisconsin to Oregon to visit my late aunt. One of those trips was train from Tomah to LaCrosse, bus to Minneapolis, just missing the turned Builder. Overnight in a hotel complements of Amtrak, then out and still another 13 hours late at Portland.

For my mother, that was really the only way she could make that trip as the stress of flying or the fatigue of riding in a car just wouldn't cut it. I can still use the alternate modes, but they are no fun. And some day I may reach the point when my top freeway speed is a terrifying 45 MPH. PUT ME ON A TRAIN!

By the way, on the return from Washington we 15 minutes early at CUS.