Ed, I'm not sure but I believe there still is a UP line at Mazonia that splits off the GMO/UP and heads north to Coal City and can join the BNSF transcon there -- giving trains access to the BNSF Logistics yard in Elwood, Willow Springs and east.
I live near this line , there is some freight on this line . There is a late morning local that runs to Joliet , there is the ocassional coal train , and an early morning South bound local , plus several Amtrak Trains .
At Elwood there is an interchange and a line that runs into the logistics park yard . The current status of this interchange is , it is open but not used . This may change in the near future with several new warehouses near the main line , plus to the south of Elwood there are several industrial parks being built , so traffic should expand .
MP173 wrote: I think another huge factor is that the Bloomington line does not have direct access to a yard in Chicago. The CEI line has Yard Center which is a pretty good sized yard. The ex GMO line has to run north from Springfield on the ex CNW line to Nelson then make a right hand turn to access Proviso. That and the trackage rights situation north of Joliet is no doubt a heavy factor. I am not sure what kind of routing UP would have to make to get to Proviso north of Joliet, but it would have to be on the IHB and no doubt trains would die.The old B&O CPL signals were great. Plus back in the 90's the locals out of Bloomington were routinely handled by ex DRG&W Geep40's and SP cabooses. That was a treat. Finally, Ridgely Tower still is in operation in Springfield.ed
I think another huge factor is that the Bloomington line does not have direct access to a yard in Chicago. The CEI line has Yard Center which is a pretty good sized yard. The ex GMO line has to run north from Springfield on the ex CNW line to Nelson then make a right hand turn to access Proviso. That and the trackage rights situation north of Joliet is no doubt a heavy factor. I am not sure what kind of routing UP would have to make to get to Proviso north of Joliet, but it would have to be on the IHB and no doubt trains would die.
The old B&O CPL signals were great. Plus back in the 90's the locals out of Bloomington were routinely handled by ex DRG&W Geep40's and SP cabooses. That was a treat. Finally, Ridgely Tower still is in operation in Springfield.
ed
As many of you know, the ex-GMO mainline parallels I-55 (the old Route 66) much of the way to Springfield. On both legs of a recent trek to Missouri, we didn't see a single freight train on that line. Amtrak, yes, but no freight.
When we were traveling the Old 66 in the late 1960s thru 1975 to and from college, we saw GMO freights aplenty.
In October, 2002, Amtrak ran a train at 109mph between Lexington and Normal, Illinois, on that old GMO line as part of a high-speed rail test. The 467-ton train, made up of standard Amtrak locomotives and cars, carried 120 politicians, government officials, contractors and reporters.
Dale:I agree with you about indepth articles on specific lines. Those are always informative. The closest I can think of is Fred Frailey usually has 1 or 2 articles per year that give an indepth look at a railroad. The last one he wrote dealt with the SP line (Sunset). Anything Mr. Blazack would write would be on the same level as Mr. Frailey's. Mr. Blazack is a pretty highly place transportation attorney in Chicago (Gabe...why dont you make a contact, he is a railfan) and he knows Chicago railroading past and present.
I would like to see an article on the two parallel lines running north south in Illinois - the Cn and UP (CEI) line. Both are pretty significant stretches of railroad. The CEI line always intrigued me and it seems pretty busy these days.
One final note, I spent an hour at Ridgely Tower earlier this year and the operator gave me quite a tour of the place along with an explanation of the operations of the line. Amtrak is obviously the major player on the line along with the daily Chicago - St. Louis manifests and a few coal trains per week. The operator is quite busy as he schedules (issues track warrents) for MOW projects over a considerable amount of UP system. I would have thought that Ridgely job was a cushion job, but the phone never stopped ringing.
Yes, UP probably doesnt want to give up the line to KCS, but...do you think any railroad today is willing to give up ANY mainline with all the capacity constraints there are? My guess is they are getting funding for some of the high speed work being done and if that is the case, this can be a decent line to own.
I would like to start a new thread on the old CEI, similar to this and a couple other threads we have going. This forum is starting to get it's charactor back.
KCSfan wrote: bn13814 wrote: Mark wrote: "I rode the Texas Eagle over this line shortly after the Southern Pacific bought it from the ICG which IIRC was around 1994 (give or take a year or two)."ICG sold the former Chicago & Alton lines west of Joliet to Chicago, Missouri & Western in 1987. The CM&W went bankrupt in 1988 and the Joliet - East St. Louis line was purchased by Southern Pacific in November 1989. bn,Unless I am terribly mistaken only that part of the old Alton lines between Springfield and Kansas City became the CM&W later the Gateway Western and today are a part of the KCS. I believe the ICG retained ownership of the entire Chicago - StL line until sold to the SP which I thought was later than 1989 and closer to the date I mentioned. My info concerning the sale to the SP came from talking with the Eagle's conductor and I could be wrong about this and am open to correction.Mark
bn13814 wrote: Mark wrote: "I rode the Texas Eagle over this line shortly after the Southern Pacific bought it from the ICG which IIRC was around 1994 (give or take a year or two)."ICG sold the former Chicago & Alton lines west of Joliet to Chicago, Missouri & Western in 1987. The CM&W went bankrupt in 1988 and the Joliet - East St. Louis line was purchased by Southern Pacific in November 1989.
Mark wrote: "I rode the Texas Eagle over this line shortly after the Southern Pacific bought it from the ICG which IIRC was around 1994 (give or take a year or two)."
ICG sold the former Chicago & Alton lines west of Joliet to Chicago, Missouri & Western in 1987. The CM&W went bankrupt in 1988 and the Joliet - East St. Louis line was purchased by Southern Pacific in November 1989.
bn,
Unless I am terribly mistaken only that part of the old Alton lines between Springfield and Kansas City became the CM&W later the Gateway Western and today are a part of the KCS. I believe the ICG retained ownership of the entire Chicago - StL line until sold to the SP which I thought was later than 1989 and closer to the date I mentioned. My info concerning the sale to the SP came from talking with the Eagle's conductor and I could be wrong about this and am open to correction.
Mark
CM&W purchased from ICG the Joliet - E. St. Louis, Springfield to Kansas City and Alton to Roodhouse lines and about three branchlines in April 1987. The Southern Pacific purchased through subsidiary, "Southern Pacific Chciago St. Louis (SPCSL), Joliet - E. St. Louis in November 1989. In January 1990, the remainder of the CM&W found a buyer which changed its name to Gateway Western. See the September 1992 issue of TRAINS.
gabe wrote: I will also throw out that I think the only reason UP hangs on to the ex-Alton route is because it doesn't want KCS to get it . . . .Gabe
I will also throw out that I think the only reason UP hangs on to the ex-Alton route is because it doesn't want KCS to get it . . . .
Gabe
I had heard this same thing. I was at Joliet Union Station one day over the summer, ran into some fellow railfans, and one of the guys there was explaining the above as one of the reasons UP hangs on to the line.
Gabe,
UP's trains that use the ex-CNW get off the old GM&O at Ridgely Tower and enter the former C&IM main line- they then take the old C&IM to Barr where they get on the former CNW for the trip up to Nelson. This arrangement allowed UP to abandon the CNW south of Barr to Girard, and subsequently the rest past Monterrey Jct was also abandoned/sold to NS (Monterrey Jct. to Decamp). The trains that use this arrangement are the "ghost" of the CNW's trains that once ran to St. Louis- BUMAA/MAPRA. In CNW days north of Peoria the CNW ran two through freights for St. Louis- BOSPA/SPBOA only ran to South Pekin where it was combined with the PRMAA (later BUMAA) for it's trip into St. Louis. It was always fun seeing the train in the 80s since the BOSPA's caboose would be tucked neatly into the middle of the train, showing where the two consists were combined. Once in a great while the trains would run seperately- but not very often as the Iowa section ran pretty light (traffic dropped quite a bit for the CNW when the SP got their own line to Chicago, same for when NS-SOU merged.) The traffic on this train comes out of Proviso- and most originates on former CNW lines in area, so it's easier for the UP to continue routing it the long way around rather than through the snaggle of tracks in Chicago.
The fact that the old GM&O beyond Joliet is owned by CN is one of the main drawbacks of the line- in addition to the fact that it is used so heavily by Amtrak. The C&EI/NYC route to St. Louis was UP's preferred route in addition to the fact that Chicago traffic for the Gulf of Mexico could routed around St. Louis via Findlay Jct. and Mt. Vernon on the old MP- rather than through St. Louis like the former GM&O and CNW routes. Most traffic out of Chicago isn't bound for St. Louis- rather long haul points beyond that. I remember looking at the lineups for Villa Grove in the early 90s the line through Salem and Mt. Vernon had twice the amount of traffic as the Pana Sub- I can remember the lineup of trains for the Pana Sub was usually the CHNL/NLCH, KCCH/CHKC, CHFWZ/FWCHZ, CHMXZ/MXCHZ, CHHOZ/HOCHZ and a tri-weekly wayfreight (detours and reroutes would show up occasionally too from the Mt. Vernon line.) The Z trains normally had pickups/setouts at Dupo- but if they didn't they too went via Salem.
Ed,
Can you explain more on the running on the CNW line out of Springfield? I don't doubt you, I am just trying to figure it out. I thought the GM&O line could go through Springfield and on to Bloomington?
I think everyone else answered the question but, also, I am pretty sure the CE&I line has more sidings.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
rrnut282 wrote: Carl,Maybe I'm thinking of another line across Illinois, but I remember watching Amtrak going 79 on jointed rail. (I didn't say the track was in bad shape, just jointed.) More traffic = more pounded joints = more maintenence $. And you did a better job of explained my point about additional capacity (or lack thereof).
Carl,
Maybe I'm thinking of another line across Illinois, but I remember watching Amtrak going 79 on jointed rail. (I didn't say the track was in bad shape, just jointed.) More traffic = more pounded joints = more maintenence $. And you did a better job of explained my point about additional capacity (or lack thereof).
Mike,
This was originally the Alton main line which became the GM&O then the ICG. Though it was all jointed rail, the line was always well maintained and was the route of the majority of the Chi - StL passenger trains and also had a good volume of freight traffic. When the Missouri Pacific acquired and upgraded the C&EI line they routed all their Chicago bound freight over their own line and the ICG lost the majority of the freight business it formerly handled on its once profitable Chi - StL lines. This occured about the time the ICG reduced maintenance all over their system to a bare minimum and their Chi - StL gradually deteriorated to the point it was in a deplorable condition. I rode the Texas Eagle over this line shortly after the Southern Pacific bought it from the ICG which IIRC was around 1994 (give or take a year or two). At 79 mph those Superliner cars bucked up and down and jerked from side to side so badly between Joliet and Bloomington I was literally afraid we were going to derail at any moment. The SP was in the process of rehabing the line working up from StL and had gotten as far north as Bloomington when I made my trip. The SP was laying CWR with new ballast, installing new turnouts and modernizing the signal system. From Bloomington on down to StL where this work had been completed the train road as smooth as silk and I could once again relax and enjoy the rest of the trip.
Having ridden Amtrak to St. Louis this past summer, might I suggest that, given the current track layout, sidings, etc., the ex-GM&O line is at capacity for handling passenger schedules and the existing freights. UP has already added a couple of trains south of Springfield by consolidating the ex-CNW line with this one. And that's five or six passenger trains that would have to be run against the direction of traffic, were directional running instituted.
And, yes, the C&EI basically gets into Chicago on its own tracks. The ex-GM&O is owned by CN east of Joliet.
Mike, the track itself is in good shape (mostly CWR), and handling passenger trains at 79 mph most of the way. Before the color-light signals currrently in use, it was equipped with B&O-style color-position-light signals, from the days when the Chicago & Alton wa controlled by the B&O.
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