Me Again!

[Mookie]

(having trouble seeing again thru tears!) -

Muck

[tree68]

Forum weather report: Visibility Zero.

[mudchicken]

Your statement about clearances is so unclear to me that it is now muddy....Something to do with woodchucks?????

Confused Old Bird[banghead]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Ms. Mook:

You be kiddin, but please don't even threaten Millie's side body panels! In the 1980's here in Denver, a BN cinder *** parked his Blazer between two tracks at a switch. In an instant, his 8 foot wide truck was now 5 foot wide and an extra foot taller.

Muddy Bird[banghead]

Guess that does show that what would be clear to one individual, isn't so clear to another - but it isn't clear to the first individual how that can't be clear to the other individual, when it is so clear in the first place?

Mook

[mudchicken]

Ms. Mook:

You be kiddin, but please don't even threaten Millie's side body panels! In the 1980's here in Denver, a BN cinder *** parked his Blazer between two tracks at a switch. In an instant, his 8 foot wide truck was now 5 foot wide and an extra foot taller.

Muddy Bird[banghead]

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Hi Mookie,
Did you try the pencil test?
If so, imagine two tracks side by side, the same amount of curve.
The short cement car can go through the curve without too much of the center of the car hanging over the inside of the curve.
The longer the car, the more of it's center part will overhang to the inside of a curve, in a yard or on a double trak main, too much overhang means you bang into the cars on the next track.
Weird as it sounds, the nose, or end of the car may clear, but the center of the car dosnt.
Makes trainmaster, yardmasters, roadmasters, anybody with "master" in their title really upset when it dosnt fit.

The shape of the car, round, square, triangle make no difference, so long as it fits within the "plate" dimensions for that track.

Take Millie for a drive, and find a tight parking space.
You can get her nose started into the space, but the farther in you go, the more you realize that the rear of the car next to you is going to dent Millie's door.
Same concept.

To solve the side overhang problem, car builders flatten, or narrow the side of extremly long or wide cars.

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[^] Ah so - Sensi Putzy bows to Shihan Blysard. Now i C.....this is so interesting I can hardly wait to see if I can fit Millie between two freight cars....

I'm kidding guys!

Mook

[edblysard]

Hi Mookie,
Did you try the pencil test?
If so, imagine two tracks side by side, the same amount of curve.
The short cement car can go through the curve without too much of the center of the car hanging over the inside of the curve.
The longer the car, the more of it's center part will overhang to the inside of a curve, in a yard or on a double trak main, too much overhang means you bang into the cars on the next track.
Weird as it sounds, the nose, or end of the car may clear, but the center of the car dosnt.
Makes trainmaster, yardmasters, roadmasters, anybody with "master" in their title really upset when it dosnt fit.

The shape of the car, round, square, triangle make no difference, so long as it fits within the "plate" dimensions for that track.

Take Millie for a drive, and find a tight parking space.
You can get her nose started into the space, but the farther in you go, the more you realize that the rear of the car next to you is going to dent Millie's door.
Same concept.

To solve the side overhang problem, car builders flatten, or narrow the side of extremly long or wide cars.

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Hi Mookie,
Take a pencil, draw a gentle curve or arc on a piece of printer paper.
Lay the pencil on the arc, so that the eraser and the point both are on the line you drew.
Move the pencil in the direction of the arc, but try and keep the tip and eraser on the line while doing so.

Why large tank cars, and some covered hoppers have the flat sides on them will become fairly obvious, if any obstruction was inside the arc.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

And here I thought it was all about fitting into a "shed" somewhere. OK what about those fat little cement cars - is it because the are shorter in length that it is ok to be round? And what about grain/coal cars - are tankers longer? Don't tank cars have a uniform roundness - so if they are pinched in the middle - it is so they will take curves better? I guess my problem is in understanding the length of the different cars - back to my old nemesis Physics!

Mookie

[edblysard]

Hi Mookie,
Take a pencil, draw a gentle curve or arc on a piece of printer paper.
Lay the pencil on the arc, so that the eraser and the point both are on the line you drew.
Move the pencil in the direction of the arc, but try and keep the tip and eraser on the line while doing so.

Why large tank cars, and some covered hoppers have the flat sides on them will become fairly obvious, if any obstruction was inside the arc.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drailed1999

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

[?] Moookie,was that luncheon plate,or dinner plate[?]
That's where the size difference comes in play[:D][swg][}:)]

The guys really gave you good answers,[:-^] I just couldn't resist[2c]

The only plate that the Mookster is really worried about is the one with her chocolate cake. [8D][:D] Luv ya sweety.. [:-^][bow]

Well, it is a dark (chocolate) and crumby job, but somebody has to do it! [sigh]

Mook

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Sis, I don't believe that there's anything smaller than Plate B, or bigger than Plate H (and I think Plates G and H have to do with special cars, like loaded doublestacks). Plate D is not a dimensional plate like the others, but deals with the way the cars narrow with the increasing length.

You may notice that some of the biggest, fattest tank cars have indentations in the middle of the sides (or underneath the side ladders); this is so they'll fit within standard clearances. These indentations are just in the outer jacket, and affect only the thickness of the insulation...the interior tank will still be cylindrical.

I think that "A "cars exist only in museums, and that they are hopper cars. But they did exist at one time in the real world. Just trying to simplify a rather technical subject. As for "D" cars, you are correct, It's about streaching "C" cars, but please see preceeding sentence.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

[?] Moookie,was that luncheon plate,or dinner plate[?]
That's where the size difference comes in play[:D][swg][}:)]

The guys really gave you good answers,[:-^] I just couldn't resist[2c]

The only plate that the Mookster is really worried about is the one with her chocolate cake. [8D][:D] Luv ya sweety.. [:-^][bow]

[corwinda]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Sis, I don't believe that there's anything smaller than Plate B, or bigger than Plate H (and I think Plates G and H have to do with special cars, like loaded doublestacks).

I have seen a boxcar marked plate G; so they do exist.[;)]


Richard Reid

[Mookie]

Well, back to trackside to look at tank cars a little closer now! I know driver was saying something about unloading certain cars, but have to go back and ask him again just what he said. I was distracted watching a train go by at the time!

Thanx Bro

SJ

[CShaveRR]

I shouldn't have to say this to a female, but...Think about curves. The further away from the truck a point on the car lies, the more it will hang over the side of the roadbed in rounding curves. At the same time, there's more pressure to get the maximum capacity of any freight car into the shortest length, and squeezing the insulation a bit so the rest of the car can be wider is one answer to the question. Another thing that's done sometimes is to put the ladder some distance away from the center of the tank, so it fits within the plate.

Loading of tank cars is almost always done at the top if the car. Most cars carrying liquids are unloaded through valves at the bottom of the car (an exception is acids, which are unloaded as well as loaded from the top). In fact, you'll notice that some tank cars are slightly v-shaped, with the valve at the bottom of the "v", so all of the liquid will flow out. Tank cars carrying pressurized material, such as anhydrous ammonia, LP gas, or chlorine, also are unloaded from the top.

Bro Carl

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Sis, I don't believe that there's anything smaller than Plate B, or bigger than Plate H (and I think Plates G and H have to do with special cars, like loaded doublestacks). Plate D is not a dimensional plate like the others, but deals with the way the cars narrow with the increasing length.

You may notice that some of the biggest, fattest tank cars have indentations in the middle of the sides (or underneath the side ladders); this is so they'll fit within standard clearances. These indentations are just in the outer jacket, and affect only the thickness of the insulation...the interior tank will still be cylindrical.

Brother Carl - I am ok up to tank cars. I understand the concept - but doesn't the front and back of the car have to fit thru these standard clearances? So if it is pinched at the waist, what about the bust and bustle? And tank cars are loaded and unloaded at the top - my brain is starting to move - so you don't need to fit the entire car through a "shed" like you do a coal car for instance? (I hate typing this - I can't talk with my hands). I guess I have never seen how they load and unload tankers. Am I even close?

SJ

[CShaveRR]

Sis, I don't believe that there's anything smaller than Plate B, or bigger than Plate H (and I think Plates G and H have to do with special cars, like loaded doublestacks). Plate D is not a dimensional plate like the others, but deals with the way the cars narrow with the increasing length.

You may notice that some of the biggest, fattest tank cars have indentations in the middle of the sides (or underneath the side ladders); this is so they'll fit within standard clearances. These indentations are just in the outer jacket, and affect only the thickness of the insulation...the interior tank will still be cylindrical.

[UPTRAIN]

Dinner plate...........funny LOL!!!!!

[locomutt]

[?] Moookie,was that luncheon plate,or dinner plate[?]
That's where the size difference comes in play[:D][swg][}:)]

The guys really gave you good answers,[:-^] I just couldn't resist[2c]

[Mookie]

Gentlemen: Thanks again - for more useful information. I will have some more questions, but have to go read some more car sides. Will take this info with me when I look, too!

Mookie

[kenneo]

Mook -- Plate is an oldfashioned word for plan when that plan is a diagram or drawing for something. So, as Ed and MC have been saying, Plate "C" is a cross section of the end of the car and also of the length and placement of the bolsters.

If you notice, on cars with cushioned underframes, the truck bolsters are in a different location on the car (more toward the center then the end) then on cars without cushioning. Longer cars also have the bolsters set more toward the center of the car. Check out an 89' pig flat next time you see one and then compare it to a non-cushioned box car, hopper car or tank car.

The longer the car, the narrower it must be to "stay within Plate". The further along in the alaphabet, the bigger the car. So a Plate "A" car will be the smallest and a Plate"Z" car will be the biggest.

And if you really want to get the total low down, there are books that will take you more than the evening to read through.

[mudchicken]

Ed & Co. are right on the Plate F stuff - Wanna stuff a square car thru a round hole? This is what'cha needs to know before you try.

The cars with the extra cylinder most likely have extra airhoses/gladhand-sets between the cars. N'est ce pas?

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

[edblysard]

Jen,
Back from Kansas, boy, is that place flat!
Did the rest of the stencile or sticker information on the side of the car state,
"when shoe is extended, car exceeds plate F clearance" ?

If you look closely, on one side, at the end, is a small metal shoe or striker plate.

This plate is held back against the side of the car with a lock pin.

When it is time to dump the car, and the air system is going to be used, the pin is removed and the system charged.

The striker shoe is spring loaded, it pops out to from the side of the car, and the car is then dragged through the unloading platform.

Just beside the track, close enough to hit this striker shoe, is a skid post the length of the car and the dump bin, and the same height as the shoe.

As the car is dragged thoroug the dumper, the shoe pushes against this long plate, and folds back against the car, depressing a plunger switch, which activates the air dump system, which opens the bottom dump doors.

As long as the striker shoe is pushed back against the car and plunger switch, the doors stay open.

When the car is clear of the unloading platform, and the skid plate is no longer holding the shoe back, it's spring pops it back open, releasing the plunger switch, and the bottom doors close.

When the entire train is empty, the air is released from the dump system, and then the shoes can be pinned back against the cars and the dump doors locked.

With the shoes extended, these cars exceed Plate F diminisions, closed, they are at plate F width.

Plates are standard height, width diminisions established by the AAR, and used by car builders, somewhat like a blueprint.

All car makers use the same "plates" for size, so instead of having to note "this car is 8 feet, 5 inches wide, and 14 feet tall, they can just state Plate C on the car.(example only, I have no idea how wide a plate C car really is)

Railroads have clearances where some cars may not fit, bridges too low, pick a problem.

They have measured them, and know if a Plate E car, Plate C or Plate F will fit.
Your KISS solution in use!

No real need to make sure all the dump hoses are hooked up until it gets where it is going, and if the are using a rotary dumper, it dosnt matter at all.

You mentioned in another thread the "extra air cylinder", and this is what it runs, the air dump system.
The cylinder is more often bigger than the brake reservoir cylinder, and mounted higher up on one end of the car.

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[corwinda]

The 'plate F' etc designations are a measure of the car cross section, but I don't know the specifics. Most marked cars I see are plate C or F, but I've seen a few boxcars marked 'exceeds plate F' here in Eugene OR; along with 'plate E' (so far all from Canadian roads) and 'Plate G'

[Mookie]

Exceeds Plate F - ?

And....coal train leaving town - air lines all joined, but two cars with hanging dump lines. Is this a problem after they get to their destination or will they just hook them up at that time?

Mookie