ericsp wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote:The investigation is now being focued on a domestic dispute between a female Metra engineer on that line and an unnamed mail who allegedly has made threats against the engineer.Do they know if it was a letter or a parcel making the threats?
Poppa_Zit wrote:The investigation is now being focued on a domestic dispute between a female Metra engineer on that line and an unnamed mail who allegedly has made threats against the engineer.
Do they know if it was a letter or a parcel making the threats?
Good catch. I never saw that typo -- just cut & pasted from one of the Chicago news web sites, don't remember which one. Since the complainant is a female, I'd guess the suspect would have a package.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
kenneo wrote: Where are Adam Dalgleish, Hircole Pirot and Sherlock Holmes when you need them?
Where are Adam Dalgleish, Hircole Pirot and Sherlock Holmes when you need them?
Why, at the library, of course.
cacole wrote: Poppa_Zit,The incident you're thinking of was the derailment of the Union Pacific City of San Francisco streamliner in Nevada in the late 1940's, IIRC. The investigation centered on disgruntled railway track workers, but no one was ever charged with the crime.Several passengers were killed.This incident was covered in one of the History Channel's "Trains Unlimited" episodes a few years ago.
Poppa_Zit,
The incident you're thinking of was the derailment of the Union Pacific City of San Francisco streamliner in Nevada in the late 1940's, IIRC. The investigation centered on disgruntled railway track workers, but no one was ever charged with the crime.
Several passengers were killed.
This incident was covered in one of the History Channel's "Trains Unlimited" episodes a few years ago.
Poppa-Zit has it right.
Mid '90's, on the now out of service line between Yuma and Phoenix, someone pulled up a fairly long strech of spikes on the outside of the high-side rail on a curve that extended over a pile trestle and then bonded a rail joint at the end of that streach and unbolted the joint. Signals showed green and here comes the Sunset toward Phoenix, spread the rails where the spikes had been pulled and busted the joint, derailing at speed over the side of an embankment and off the side of the trestle. Just about the whole train went into the ditch.
cacole - you are correct in the other accident that is clearly sabatoge - in Nevada near Island Mountain IIRC, the City of San Francisco spread the rail where spikes had been taken out of both rails just in front of a Humbolt River truss span. Train derailed and took down the span and quite a bit of the train went into the river and parts of that wreckage went under water.
Neither crime has officially been closed and I know of no arests in either case that have "stuck". Those that comitted these crimes not only knew what they were about, but also how to effectively obscure or destroy any clues to their identy and guilt. For an absolute certinty, there does not exist sufficient evidence to convict.
Simple pry bar or a house hold "crow bar" and a small, 5lb sledge hammer will work quite nicely.
Our MOW guys tap those Pandrol clips back on with a spike maul, but it takes little effort on their part, one maybe two smacks.
On tangent track, a 14 foot section, if both sides were removed, might cause a problem...but considering that Metra inspect the tracks on a regular basis....
23 17 46 11
I think there may be some confusion in the details about this incident. Apparently now they are looking for someone who used "special equipment" to remove [all] the "spikes" from a 14-foot section of track. The "spikes" were not conventional spikes, according to a photo on tonight's news.
Instead of conventional spikes and tie plates, the Metra tracks under investigation had "clip" connectors just like the one on the left in this photo (below) which means someone just didn't hop up there on the fill and yank some spikes out.
Metra says it happened between a routine inspection Sunday and another on Monday.
The FBI is considering the domestic angle, but I think that has been put behind another theory. Sounds like the Feds are all over this.
I'm sure doing this requires a special tool for the square heads plus some knowledge.
Experienced railroaders, your thoughts, please.
Steam Is King wrote: CShaveRR wrote: I got a slightly different report through my sources at work, suggesting that considerably more than twelve spikes had been removed, and also that another incident, different in nature but in the same locale, occurred this morning.Do you suppose this is being done by someone who has a rough idea of crew schedules? That might narrow it down a bit, though I certainly wouldn't like that direction!Its bad enough someone wants to injure or kill somebody. but why maim or kill an entire trainload of innocent people?. anyone who would do this shouldget a needle in their arm, no questions;Chico
CShaveRR wrote: I got a slightly different report through my sources at work, suggesting that considerably more than twelve spikes had been removed, and also that another incident, different in nature but in the same locale, occurred this morning.Do you suppose this is being done by someone who has a rough idea of crew schedules? That might narrow it down a bit, though I certainly wouldn't like that direction!
I got a slightly different report through my sources at work, suggesting that considerably more than twelve spikes had been removed, and also that another incident, different in nature but in the same locale, occurred this morning.
Do you suppose this is being done by someone who has a rough idea of crew schedules? That might narrow it down a bit, though I certainly wouldn't like that direction!
Its bad enough someone wants to injure or kill somebody. but why maim or kill an entire trainload of innocent people?. anyone who would do this shouldget a needle in their arm, no questions;
Chico
Sociopathic people really don't care what else is in the way. The spousal abuse angle, yeah, I can buy it, God knows, in my time as a 9-1-1 Operator, I heard and saw many things that were caused by jealous, or estranged ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends, etc. So, I am not surprised that someone would decide to get back at his ex, or estranged wife by trying to do something like that.
I find this very disturbing, especially since my train runs on those tracks! Assuming the spousal revenge angle, why would someone want to derail a trains with hundreds (sometimes 500+) of people just to get back at the spouse? I just don't understand that?
In any case, I believe Metra has put in a "Slow Zone" around that area as my trains (South Shore / NICTD) have been going awfully slow in that area and I thought I saw the markers indicating as such (I'll check again tomorrow).
Let me ask this to our trackwork experts out there: wouldn't be difficult for an average person to remove the spikes from the ties anyway (assuming the ties are in good shape)? Aren't there special tools to spike removal? (Sorry if this sounds unintelligent, but I'm trying to get a better idea of what would be required to do this).
Brian
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
gabe wrote: WHEN they catch him, I think he might be a little surprised at what he is looking at legally. As the average metra train can hold hundreds of people, he undertook an action substantially in furtherance of his plan, and death is a foreseeable consequence of attempting to derail a train, he could be looking at 200 counts of attempted murder. Although this will not render him death-penalty eligible, he could be looking at a 3400 year sentence. I hope they throw the book at him.I hope I never see anyone removing spikes from a rail track on a busy passenger line. I would be in need of a good lawyer and the perp would be in need of a good mortition.Gabe
WHEN they catch him, I think he might be a little surprised at what he is looking at legally. As the average metra train can hold hundreds of people, he undertook an action substantially in furtherance of his plan, and death is a foreseeable consequence of attempting to derail a train, he could be looking at 200 counts of attempted murder.
Although this will not render him death-penalty eligible, he could be looking at a 3400 year sentence. I hope they throw the book at him.
I hope I never see anyone removing spikes from a rail track on a busy passenger line. I would be in need of a good lawyer and the perp would be in need of a good mortition.
Gabe
On the radio five minutes ago an official also mentioned "depraved indifference attempted murder".
They say they are looking into the possibility of sabotage caused by an estranged spouse , that sounds like quite a ways from proof.
Have they ruled vandalism completely out?
The problem is that if 12 isn't enough and no one catches him, it might be 24 the next time and he cuts the rail in 2 places. So hopefully, the FBI catches this guy before he does something else.
Paul
Although I don't think the removal of 12 spikes is enough to do anything, there are times when I just wonder how we survived as a species: willing to put 100s of people in danger so you can get back at your partner.
Absolutely revolting.
TV news video just showed a stretch of straight track where allegedly the 12 spikes were removed.
I ask the career railroaders here -- I can't envision removing only 12 spikes -- either in a straight line or staggered on straight track being enough to derail a train. I could see it happening on the outside of a curve, maybe, but...
FBI investigating 'sabotage' of Metra track
September 27, 2007 FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
UPDATED: The FBI says it's investigating the ''sabotage'' of a section of Metra tracks on Chicago's South Side. Officials say Metra employees noticed 12 missing railroad spikes on Monday. The spikes hold down metal plates that bind the rails to wooden ties underneath.
The investigation is now being focued on a domestic dispute between a female Metra engineer on that line and an unnamed mail who allegedly has made threats against the engineer.
''If a sufficient number of spikes are removed in a contained location, there's the potential for the rail to shift, which would lead to disastrous results and train derailment,'' said Federal Railroad Administration spokesman Steve Kulm.
The affected tracks carry three commuter lines, including the Metra Electric Line to University Park and Blue Island, and the South Shore Line through northwestern Indiana to South Bend, Ind.
Metra employees discovered the missing spikes Monday and notified police and federal authorities, including the Department of Homeland Security and the Transportation Security Administration, which investigates threats to planes and trains.
The FBI said it was conducting a criminal investigation into ''sabotage.'' FBI spokesman Ross Rice said agents were checking for possible connections to a domestic violence case involving a Metra engineer.
''No one has claimed responsibility or called in a threat,'' Rice said. ''No similar incident has been reported to us in the metropolitan area. This is a serious incident, and we are aggressively investigating.''
Gunshots were fired at two Metra trains on the same line in June, about two miles south of where the spikes were removed.
Metra officials were concerned the target of the shots may have been the engineer involved in the domestic case, who allegedly was being harassed by her estranged husband, said agency spokeswoman Judy Pardonnet. The woman wasn't operating trains on the days of the shooting.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.