RR through Philmont

[nanaimo73]

Dale, the Des Moines to Raton line was abandonded on July 15, 1935.

Thanks.

After 70 years, you can still trace the old ROW and it curves around Capulin lake.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.741773&lon=-104.015379&z=14&l=0&m=a&v=2

[diningcar]

Dale, the Des Moines to Raton line was abandonded on July 15, 1935.

The line from Felt, OK to Clayton, NM and from Mt. Dora to Farley was opened for operation on 11-15-31. The 19.22 mile line from Boise City to Felt was opened for operation 12-1-25 and was abandoned along with the remainder of the Colmor Cutoff west of Boise City on 9-6-42.

 I have no info about any facilities at Capulin.

[Murphy Siding]

From the "replies" I've gotten so far I would assume that either

a) I have no right to contribute to this forum so I should just go away and shut up; or

b) No one here has any idea what those structures are at Capulin.

Fine. 

  Well.....at least none of us that have read this thread.  Don't let that discourage you though.

[nanaimo73]

 Dale: Try 1942-43, not 1935. 

The 1935 date is when I believe the Des Moines-Dillon line was abandoned, I didn't know the date for the Farley line south of it.

[JSGreen]

Sorry you havent got your question answered, but from what I have noticed on this forum, most folks won't just fill the void with "I Don't know". 

Unless you have been involved in a flame war which I missed, I doubt people are ignoring you...they just dont have anything for you.  Heck, your question wasnt posted that long ago...some folks only check in once a week.  

P.S.  Pictures can be helpful, folks who havent been to that remote part of New Mexico may be able to identify the structure based on similar structures elswhere, even if they didnt recognize it from your description... 

[chaya]

From the "replies" I've gotten so far I would assume that either

a) I have no right to contribute to this forum so I should just go away and shut up; or

b) No one here has any idea what those structures are at Capulin.

Fine. 

 

[mudchicken]

C&S/FW&D Des Moines Division, The Station of Clayton ...DiningCar be correct.  

Oh, the joys of too many hours and not enough sleep....the big sweeping S-curves still are very visible to the south and east of Clayton (almost looking like sand dunes and the overpass abutments and fill are still very visible at what's left at Mt. Dora along with the scar all the way down to Farley.(Clayton off towards between Felt and Boise City has pretty well disappeared)

Dale: Try 1942-43, not 1935. (The Farley depot hadn't even been built yet...Oh what Boise City Terminal coulda been!)

http://www.atsfrr.com/resources/burton/Colmor.htm (compiled and placed on the web by another of Chico's children and sometimes Forum poster)

[nanaimo73]

Boise city to Des Moines???  MC perhaps you remember more than myself. My info is that Santa Fe ran from Boise city to Clayton, then trackage rights over C & S to Mt. Dora and then on the Colmor Cutoff to Farley on its own track.

This is correct.

I do not remember any SF operation between Mt. Dora and Des Moines, so if I need more education

It is shown as abandoned during 1935 on the EP&SW map in Feb 1966 Trains.

 please provide it.

Yes, please.

[diningcar]

Boise city to Des Moines???  MC perhaps you remember more than myself. My info is that Santa Fe ran from Boise city to Clayton, then trackage rights over C & S to Mt. Dora and then on the Colmor Cutoff to Farley on its own track. I do not remember any SF operation between Mt. Dora and Des Moines, so if I need more education please provide it.

[mudchicken]

What happened in Las Vegas (NM) , stayed in Las Vegas (NM) at the Castaneda Harvey House

And then there's Boise City to Des Moines and Mt. Dora to Farley....on the Colmor Cutoff

[diningcar]

I thought I was finished with this thread, but MC has inserted info which indicates I may have been around before him ???

Both MC and myself have quite a bit of history on the Santa Fe in this area, and a few stories to tell; but I shall be discreate and not tell all I know and request that MC will also. 

Enough frivolity, but a further note regarding the post about a RR line from Raton to Des Moines. There were two RR grades built but only one had train operation and track constructed upon it and it was (eventually) operated by Santa Fe but was originally constructed and operated by others.

 

 

[chaya]

Regarding the part of the line running east from Raton to Des Moines (New Mexico), I discovered this line for myself only last weekend as we returned from a trip to Capulin Volcano.  Saw the grade and a hand-built stone culvert and was hooked.  Here is an interesting tidbit, and am hoping someone can shed some light.  About 1/4 mile north of the tiny town of Capulin, we saw some interesting structures on the east side of the road.  They are in someone's private property and are surrounded by other deteriorated buildings as well as some modern ones.  One building looks for all the world like a telephone shelter:  an odd semi-cylindrical building, built of stone, with an octagonal roof originally covered with green tarpaper, a window, and a door.  Beyond this building is a tall, square tower built very heavily and sturdily of large timbers--a sanding or coaling tower?--and also once covered with green tarpaper.  Only later did I learn that a railroad--the St. Louis, Rocky Mountain and Pacific Railroad--crossed through here.  

I've found it perplexing that there are no photos of these structures on the web, and that no one mentions them.  Does someone here know something about them? 

 

[mudchicken]

Diningcar hit it on the head pretty well. The bottom part of the Koehler Branch, including the wye, was in service until almost 1970 and was still loading coal in small lots into the early 1960's. (Then York Canyon happened - before my time, but Diningcar was around).

In the mid-80's, Diningcar's office in Topeka sent John Harsh and I out there to inventory what was left of what Santa Fe still owned. Quite an adventure, lots of hiking and we got disoriented more than once because the grade scar had disappeared in places. Lots of "Marco-Polo" in the thick scrubcedar pines and brush, especially at Ute Junction trying to find certain land parcels w/o track on it anymore. You can still find most of the Koehler Branch/ "swastika route" running east of Koehler and Raton out onto the prairie, east of I-25 

[jockellis]

hf1001, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. From what my son told me about his recent trip there, it didn't seem like the Philmont staff knew much about it, only that it ran there. They also told the scouts that the rail went to Japan. But if it was abandoned in 1942, any metal going in that direction would have been carried in the bomb bays of the B-29 making unappreciated visits.
And for everyone who contributed, many thanks. I learned a lot and can add it to the little book my son had to make, recounting his nearly two weeks there.

[diningcar]

Not certain, but I believe the RR Santa Fe operated went to Ute Park approximately along the route of Highway 64, and of course Ute Park is currently right on Hwy. 64.

[hf1001]

I'm in a BSA troop in OKC,OK but I never knew new about rails through Philmont!

[MidlandPacific]

I knew I hadn't lost it!  I took a look at Myrick's book, and sure enough, the Cimarron & NW was listed.  The STLRM&P ran from Raton down to Cimarron - roughly along the route the highway runs now, I would assume, since it's grades are listed as being "of no moment."  The StLRM&P projected branches toward Elizabethtown and Eagle's Nest, although the only work Myrick mentions is a tunnel that was supposedly begun to get the line to Eagle's Nest.  It would be interesting to know what route they expected to follow, although IIRC Elizabethtown was slightly north of the northern boundary of the ranch, and Eagle's Nest is to the NW of it, so these lines probably wouldn't have crossed the Bar P Crazy S. 

But the C&NW was pushed up North Ponil Creek, right through the spot where Ponil camp is now.  It eventually went on to a spot eight miles to the north, called "Bonito," which was presumably somewhere in Bonito Canyon.  It was a subsidiary of the Continental Tie & Lumber Company, which is today commemorated by the camp at Pueblano. 

[diningcar]

In an attempt to be brief I did not elaborate, but here is the detail from SF records:

Santa Fe acquired control under contract of purchase and possession taken on August 1, 1913, separately operated by St Louis Rocky Mountain and Pacific Ry Co. Name was changed to Rocky Mountain and Santa Fe Ry Co on March 10, 1915 and property was leased to The AT & Sf Ry Co on July 1, 1915. 

The line between Koehler Jct and Ute Park, 39.58 miles, was "out of service' on 11-09-1942. The ICC granted the abandonment on 12-10-1942

[JSGreen]

  You might want to check out David Myrick's book "New Mexico's Railroads"; that would be definitive. 

 

page 160-163 of Myrick's book covers the Saint Louis & RMP....DiningCar's summary is pretty similar, but Myrick reports the line was actually sold to ATSF in 1913...which doesnt contradict, just add more detail...

a quick skim of the ATSF specific section does not provide details about date of abandonment... but the details of the operation before sale to  ATSF discuss low and declining traffic volumes even in 1915...

 

[MidlandPacific]

IIRC (and this was from my time at PSR, NOT on the railroad), it ran up Ponil Canyon past the site that's now Indian Writings Camp.  There was also a line called the "Cimarron & Northwestern," and I may be confusing the two.  The long open lot in the center of Cimarron, east of the James, was once a railroad yard.  You might want to check out David Myrick's book "New Mexico's Railroads"; that would be definitive. 

 Haven't been back there in years; think about it every other day.  I still find myself debating whether I liked the north country or the south country better; it's been thirteen years since I signed out of the RO and I still can't answer that question.  It's magnificent.

[diningcar]

The St. Louis, R M & P built the line through Cimarron in 1906 and extended it on to Ute park in 1907. The Santa Fe began operations over the line in 1913 and the name was changed to Rocky Mountain & Santa Fe in 1915. It was abandoned in 1942.

While Philmont Ranch is near Cimarron I do not believe the track was ever upon the ranch itself.

 

[nanaimo73]

These websites say it was built as the St. Louis, Rocky Mountain and Pacific Railroad. I think it was acquired by the ATSF and abandoned during 1942. MC will know for sure.

http://www.cimarronnm.com/history.htm

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/HC-Cimarron3.html

http://www.rozylowicz.com/retirement/dawson/dawson-colfax.html   

[jockellis]

Does anyone know what railroad once ran through Philmont Scout Ranch? And would you tell me the name?