Personally, I would prefer not to see the sides of freight trains carrying billboards. I think it would change the no-nonsense, utilitarian look into something cheap, gaudy, tacky, and maybe even squirrelly. This would be especially so, when you consider a continuous string of say 150 attention grabbing billboards. Something to keep in mind is that our society contains groups who make a cause of claiming to being victimized, so they can demand redress.
A classic example of the victimization movement is the claim that people are getting fat because corporations are using marketing to hypnotize victims into overeating. Another emerging and quickly developing example is that credit card companies victimize people by hypnotizing them into spending money they don't have. This movement is quickly gaining momentum with the current sub-prime mortgage fiasco. Rights activists are lining up victims who are claiming to have been taken advantage of by overly liberal lending policies. A common denominator of victims groups is that their target is always a bully with deep pockets.
The point I am making is that there is also a group who claim to be victimized by billboards. To add a little extra horsepower to their seemingly lightweight cause, they commonly ally themselves with the victims of light pollution. Their deep pocket targets are the corporations who use billboards, and illuminate their storefronts at night for marketing exposure as well as security. Can you imagine the boost they would get if you add the deep pockets of the railroad industry to their target?
Something else to consider is that the FRA has just converted the sides of freight cars into a highway hazard with their reflector mandate. So the advertising effect of railcar billboards would have to be weighed against their effect on the highway hazard. Billboard victims might argue that the billboards can be so enticing that they cause motorists to drive into the sides of trains.
Of course the FRA will probably see the flashy, reflectorized billboards as a way to augment their mandated safety reflectors, and thus make a rule that all freight cars must carry some minimum amount of billboard adverting. If enough paid advertising was not forthcoming, the railroads could fill out their FRA requirement with public service announcements. Possibly some cars could be used to carry warning messages about the dangers of billboards.
The following question and answer are a major reason why this is probably a non-starter:
Q. (potential advertiser.) Where would most people be likely to really see this rolling billboard?
A. (railroad executive.) Err... Well... Most likely, backed up in traffic at a grade crossing, waiting for the train to go past.
(Advertiser, thinking about his own level of receptivity under those conditions.) Say WHAT???
Chuck
MP173 wrote: Dont worry folks, I dont see it happening on a large scale.Truck brokerage of graphics has been around since around 1998 and it really hasnt caught on. I seriously doubt if it could be taken to the railcars for several reasons. First, trucking companies are able to get pretty good demographic matches for equipment. For example we currently have a contract in which a trucking company is providing a daily routing of a specific truck into a specific zip code area in Chicago. Pretty specific marketing. Can the railroads provide that service? Probably not.Second, the number of yearly visual impressions generated by trucks would blow away the railroad's visual impressions. Current data indicates that a delivery truck in a metropolitan area generates over 16 million visual impressions per year. An over the road truck will generate 10 million per year and an over the road with reflective graphics generates around 14 million.The railroad car visual impressions would be probably 10% of the truck's, if that. Think about how many people will see a truck in the course of a day and compare that with a railcar. Consider all factors including hours of service of a truck vs railcar, location of both vehicles (roads vs rails), dwell time in yards, etc.Finally, as had been previously discussed, the image would be an issue. Trucks or trailers are routinely washed, particularly those with fleet graphics. Railcars are seldom washed and the graffiti is a major issue. Railroads are not very receptive to this type of marketing. It almost took an act of the railroad Gods to get them to convert from paint stencilling to decal 15 years ago. I actually had a man tell me that paint stencilling had worked for 100 years and there was no reason even discussing decals with him. I showed him one of his cars which the paint stencil had faded out. He simply answered it was time to repaint it.So, I wouldnt worry too much about mass marketing coming to the railcar fleets. There are plenty of unmarked trucks out there.ed
Dont worry folks, I dont see it happening on a large scale.
Truck brokerage of graphics has been around since around 1998 and it really hasnt caught on. I seriously doubt if it could be taken to the railcars for several reasons.
First, trucking companies are able to get pretty good demographic matches for equipment. For example we currently have a contract in which a trucking company is providing a daily routing of a specific truck into a specific zip code area in Chicago. Pretty specific marketing. Can the railroads provide that service? Probably not.
Second, the number of yearly visual impressions generated by trucks would blow away the railroad's visual impressions. Current data indicates that a delivery truck in a metropolitan area generates over 16 million visual impressions per year. An over the road truck will generate 10 million per year and an over the road with reflective graphics generates around 14 million.
The railroad car visual impressions would be probably 10% of the truck's, if that. Think about how many people will see a truck in the course of a day and compare that with a railcar. Consider all factors including hours of service of a truck vs railcar, location of both vehicles (roads vs rails), dwell time in yards, etc.
Finally, as had been previously discussed, the image would be an issue. Trucks or trailers are routinely washed, particularly those with fleet graphics. Railcars are seldom washed and the graffiti is a major issue.
Railroads are not very receptive to this type of marketing. It almost took an act of the railroad Gods to get them to convert from paint stencilling to decal 15 years ago. I actually had a man tell me that paint stencilling had worked for 100 years and there was no reason even discussing decals with him. I showed him one of his cars which the paint stencil had faded out. He simply answered it was time to repaint it.
So, I wouldnt worry too much about mass marketing coming to the railcar fleets. There are plenty of unmarked trucks out there.
ed
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
It is about time for Ed [MP173] to weigh in on this.
Since he's in the transportation decoratin' business... He'll have some real grasp of costs and expectations, as well.
We need a brilliant mind (probably from our forum) to come up with a clear acrylic type cover/paint that you use over the painting that keeps graffiti from sticking to the side of the car.....
Talk about a mind wandering off....
I would hate to see the railroads become another media for advertising blight. Billboards, car wraps, commercials and banner ads attack my inner serenity efficiently enough
'f course, one could argue we're already subjected to advertising on RR cars, just by the RR's or the particular car's owner.... True enough. But the way they do it is more long-term oriented, meaning the general use of subtle, long-wearing colors that hold up to the rigors of freight duty
I shudder at the thought of a 2007 Chevy Tahoe ad still working itself around the nation in 2037....
I'll take graffiti anyday over that
making sure that these grafitti artist "kids" are properly insured while performing the work, would be more trouble than it is worth, Let just one get hurt, and the deep pocket always gets to carry the blame.
Mook... You are probably right. But, I just threw that out there as an idea, to see what everyone else thought. I was just sitting here brain-storming (or short-circuiting, I never can tell) and came up with that.
And yet, my brain refuses to shut off....
On the flipside, some corporate suit might think it's a good idea, to have a local grafitti "artist" paint the ad, because, then it gives their brand recognition in the "neigborhood" and then they can use the fact that they helping "turn around" potential trouble makers and "helping the community". It gives the kid a job, and the company good PR, as well as the railroad. You know, instead of having some high-powered advertising firm professionally paint the cars, the corporations are turning to "the people", specifically, the disadvantaged, and is giving them "hope".............
It would be a huge "touchy feely" lets-all-feel-good kind of thing. However it works out, some kid(s) get paid to paint railroad cars, the corporation gets it's advertising done economically, and everyone gets a good feeling out of it.... Isn't that what it's all about?? (note sarcasm)
What would probably happen, is one kid in LA would get the work, and some kid in Chicago or New York who didn't get the work will feel "dissed" and probably paint over the ad on the car, or vandalize it in some other way. In fact, I could see a whole new reality show out of this, and that way, for the guys who didn't get picked, their humiliation would be broadcast on national television. Yeah, yeah, take like 5 or 6 of these guys, one from LA, one from Chicago, New York, Baltimore, and Philadelphia. And, get some sponsor, like Nike, or Adidas, or Boost Mobile, and these guys get to paint an ACF Center-flow with the corporate design, and make the show full of pressure, and hype, and really "ghetto it up" and pretty soon, it would be totally out of control, garner Fox, or the CW some great ratings, and the guy who gets the contract, and like 250,000 bucks becomes a celebrity, and the others get humiliated.... Have a Simon-like critic who sits their and bashes their work, not only when it is in progress, but after it is done..... Yeah I can see it now...quick, someone call Fox, or the CW..I gotta sell this one...
You know what? Just let my 5 year old daughter do it....she's good with crayons, and loves to draw hearts and ponies.
Tim - human nature being what it is, another graffiti artist will just paint over it, no matter who you hire to paint it.
Mook
ericsp wrote: tomikawaTT wrote: It might discourage graffiti! It certainly won't be any worse.At least the reporting marks and other essential data should remain legible.ChuckI think the opposite is more likely. Seeing a train that has a majority of its cars covered with graffiti on the bottom 1/3, or a whole car covered in graffiti, will probably make a potential advertiser think ads on rolling stock is not a good investmet. As quickly as cars get covered in graffiti, I doubt it will be economical to continuously redo the advertisement.
tomikawaTT wrote: It might discourage graffiti! It certainly won't be any worse.At least the reporting marks and other essential data should remain legible.Chuck
It might discourage graffiti! It certainly won't be any worse.
At least the reporting marks and other essential data should remain legible.
I think the opposite is more likely. Seeing a train that has a majority of its cars covered with graffiti on the bottom 1/3, or a whole car covered in graffiti, will probably make a potential advertiser think ads on rolling stock is not a good investmet. As quickly as cars get covered in graffiti, I doubt it will be economical to continuously redo the advertisement.
That is quite likely, but then here is another idea: Hire the best of the local grafitti artists, and have them paint the car according to the advertiser's specs, and then allow the 'artist" to "sign" the boxcar on, say, the lower right side. Will this curb grafitti? I don't know, but if one of these guys were to get paid for what they do, they might change their tune about a few things. Some of the grafitti types are very talented, (Which I don't like admit)and I have seen a few cars with very complex designs that had to have taken alot of time. Now, if they can do that for "fun" imagine what they might do if they got paid, and paid well. I know some of them have an "artists ego", and wouldn't "sell out"...but I am sure quite a few of them would step up for a job like that.
I saw a box car on the BNSF one day, where the grafitti "artist" had painted, in 3D another box car on the side, with the same road name, and he painted it sitting on tracks and everything. .. It was something to look at. Now, someone with that kind of talent deserves a chance.
(And before any one jumps me on this: No I do not condone grafitti anywhere. 95 percent of the stuff on railroad cars looks like garbage...but occasionally there is one with real talent)
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
This month's issue of trains has an article on the possible return of rolling billboards. Well, billboards on rolling stock might make a comeback if a company called Freight Train Media LLC has its way. Of course they'll have to contend with rule 84. Florida East Coast contracted with this company for putting billboards of the Florida Marlans baseball team on a couple of rock-hualing cars that are held in captive service, thus not subject to rule 84.
http://mountainstaterails.net/index.php?showtopic=1303
"You can just imagine what kind of impact messages might have," Morin told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "You're waiting at a rail crossing, and they're rolling by, 100 cars with these colorful images on their sides." Morin told the Plain Dealer he foresees brand advertising, Nike swooshes, Coke logos, Chevy, the Cleveland Indians, State Farm Insurance, and on and on. Morin and Johnson came up with the idea in 2005 during a discussion of railroad car history.
PS: If he pulls this off, train cars would resemble old Tyco fantasy rolling stock, not to mention model train sets with sports team themes.
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