propane tanks on the side of the tracks

[northwesterner]

It may be a little out of date, but in the early-mid 80's, I rode the Metra-UP (ex-CNW) into the Chicago Passenger Terminal daily. I remember during the winter, the entire treminal looked like something out of Dante's Inferno because the terminal's throat of 6 tracks expanded to 12 or 13. Every switch had a propane fire under it. During a heavy snow, it was something to see.

[techguy57]

Okay, that helps. I saw some heaters west of the UP Proviso yard in Elmhurst. They were running and by the sound I'm guessing they were natural gas.

I to am curious about plowing standards, especially from our Canadian friends.

Thanks Mudchicken

Mike

[mudchicken]

(1) a lot of yards still use kerosene fired smudge pots set by the track gangs once it starts to snow....The ballast around switch ties ties have to be well cribbed-out for these things to work. A smudge pot will burn for 36-48 hours and then it's out of fuel.

(2) switch heaters use a "snorkel" device to sense moisture in freezing weather that automatically fire-up the dragons and turn them off. Others are turned on by the dispatchers with a remote switch. (listen to the radio chatter)....The snorkel looks like the newer bunsen burners you find in a chemistry lab in school.

(3) our plows do not come out on the prairie until there is 18" on the ground and it starts to drift....What do the Canadian railroaders do?

[techguy57]

Another question along these lines. I understand using heaters in the bigger yards like Proviso and Bensenville and such but what about for the smaller sidings. I know the sidings UP uses up here have been cleared (all the snow near the switches has been melted) but I'm not sure how. someone mentioned that CNW used electric switch heaters. Does UP use these too? Beside propane, electric, and the jet powered de-icer mentioned are there other methods. Also do the RRs use these the whole time its cold enough to freeze the switches or do they let the run all the time? (could get a little pricey!)

Also, (the mountains exempted) how much snow does there have to be for a Railroad to designate using a engine for a plow train. Is it more common for whatever loco is schedule next to use its plow (I still think of them as cattle-catchers).

Just curious.

Mike

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz
Back in the winter of 1979, there was so much snow in the Chicago area, that the CNW's Proviso yard was almost at a standstill. The railroad began loading empty gondolas with snow from the yards, and shipped them way south as "empty" cars. When the cars arrived in the south, the snow had already melted in the cars. In most cases, the destination had no need of these cars, and simply sent them back to Chicago. The CNW claimed the cars were 'misrouted'.

I think they tried that in Buffalo after the Blizzard of '77. Problem was, there was a big cold snap and the cars arrived at their destinations - full of snow. [banghead]

[Train Guy 3]

Anyone reemmber the " Chicago " editon of Trains mag. There was a picture of like 7 switches with the flames a rollin' to keep them clean.

[CShaveRR]

I remember 1979 well. Actually, those jet track cleaners are common devices on other railroads, and it isn't completely gone from here. However, for the reasons you cited, it is certainly an unwelcome visitor to Proviso (I suppose it would do well away from switches, but switches are where the biggest problems exist).

We had one device similar to a rotary plow (actually more like a sidewalk snow-blower) that was tried on the business side of the hump yard after that storm. It lasted maybe 150 feet before breaking down (Mr. Zito was watching the whole thing!). We also killed a Jordan spreader from overwork that winter. There was one track in the bowl (49) that never got cleared that winter...just had snow drifted and piled in it until spring.

In the hump, by the way, we use electricity to keep the points clear of snow on the power switches (these cal-rods [sp?] were also installed at one time at County Line and maybe other busy places. UP rebuilt County Line last year, and may not have kept the heaters). The upper switches have these heaters augmented by blowers to keep the points clear, usually successfully.

[zardoz]

The CNW (nowUP) used electric heaters for some interlocking switches in Wisconsin. They were controlled by either the operators (at manned interlockings), or by the dispatcher.

For snow-melting, the CNW also experimented with a jet engine mounted on a platform car that had the jet exhaust pointed at the tracks. The roar it made was deafening, the spray of snow and ice was spectacular, and the end result was a failure. For while the intended switch would indeed be cleared of snow and ice, the stuff that did not blow awy simply melted, and then quickly froze into a SOLID mass of ice, which made the switch completely inoperable.

The device lasted only one year.

Back in the winter of 1979, there was so much snow in the Chicago area, that the CNW's Proviso yard was almost at a standstill. The railroad began loading empty gondolas with snow from the yards, and shipped them way south as "empty" cars. When the cars arrived in the south, the snow had already melted in the cars. In most cases, the destination had no need of these cars, and simply sent them back to Chicago. The CNW claimed the cars were 'misrouted'.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WHITELITENIN

SLIC And Breeze Would use them for target practice If They Could get away with it

And what role model taught them to do that, Dad!

Jen

[Anonymous]

SLIC And Breeze Would use them for target practice If They Could get away with it

[kenneo]

Interesting about having fans on switch heaters. The SP simply placed flame jets (burners) along the stock rails and sometimes along the points and at the frog and wing rails, sometimes. All you need to do is keep the rail at 33 degrees F.

Until the demise of the steam engine, these beasts would exhaust steam out of the cyclinder cocks all along the track and even where it never thawed, you would have green grass growing next to the rail. With diesels, you need switch heaters![sigh]

[edblysard]

Ghighland,
Does your tourist railroad have a locomotive?
Does it move?
Tracks?
Switches?
If so, then its as real as it gets.
Dont sell yourself short!
Stay Frosty!
Ed

[mudchicken]

Have seen propane tanks float away in floodv season. About once a season, some "JoeBob" tries to steal one in Kansas or Oklahoma on BNSF. Usually without success.

[wabash1]

I have never seen a switch heaters propane tank vandalized. other than spray painted. no other problems have occured

[eolafan]

Along the BNSF triple track main west of Chicago (through my home town of Aurora) they use natural gas fired heaters these days...they fire up a heater and then use a mega-blower to send very hot air through to the switch points to keep ice and snow away from them and keeping them clear and operating freely. Jim in Aurora, IL

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

When I lived on Long Island I would see little fires on the tracks near switches on LIRR. The flame was a bright blue color. Was/Is propane the source of the fire? Are there other methods. I would only see, the fire, in the large Jamica LIRR station. The tracks are quite close to one another, little room for a tank.

Entirely possible that natural gas was available there. Many places that need switch heaters are a good distance from a natural gas line, so LP is the choice.

[dharmon]

So how often are these propane tanks the victims of teenage terrorism?? Seems like that would make an irresistable target..

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Propane switch heaters are found on the approaches to Chicago Union Station at least as far south as 21st St, which is south of the Chicago River. I'm not sure how far they extend on the north approaches.
They make for quite a sight early on a winter morning before sunrise during and after a snowfall when most of them are lit.

[Anonymous]

edblysard:

I have heard the switch tender on the radio say a crew is "on the circuit" so s/he could
not line the switch automatically. Interesting! A lot has changed over the years in
railroading but still a lot has stayed the same too. I hadn't thought of just how hard it
would be to have to throw 60 or 70 switches in one day while working a shift in a yard
if there wasn't some type of automation. On the tourist RR I volunteered for, we had to
throw MAYBE three switches on each job - hardly enough to give you an idea of REAL
railroading.

[Anonymous]

When I lived on Long Island I would see little fires on the tracks near switches on LIRR. The flame was a bright blue color. Was/Is propane the source of the fire? Are there other methods. I would only see, the fire, in the large Jamica LIRR station. The tracks are quite close to one another, little room for a tank.

[timthechef]

I beleave that they are for switch heaters because they are located at the switches. We live in Brunswick MD. and it does get cold here sometimes. (Not cold like it did in Wisconsin where I come from but cold enough to freeze). Thanks for your help!

[JoeKoh]

they have trackside heaters along the B&O main(CSX) here in nw ohio
stay safe
Joe

[coalminer3]

They're all over the place on the former C&O New River Sub.

work safe

[edblysard]

Ghighland,
What they most likley are refering to is a hydraulic operated or electric switch.
We have several in our yard, on the switching leads.
They have a motor or hydraulic ram that moves the switch point from route to route, it saves on back injuries.
On the lead I work, I must "throw" the lead switchs between the C,D, E and F yards several hundreds times a shift.
A ground throw switch stand would kill you in a hour, and a 45 degree back saver wouldnt be much better.
These switches have a simply control box, mounted on a pole, with 2 buttons, one for each route.
In other areas, we have radio controled switches, with receivers mounted next to the switch.
Dial in the frenquency, then push a code sequence on your radio, and the switch lines for your route.
Push a different code, and it lines the other way.
These are low powered and low range, you have to be within 200 feet for them to receive the signal, to prevent someone in say, another yard, accidently operating that switch.
They have a simple interlocking circut that prevents you from lining the switch until your front trucks are inside the circut, and if you get too close, they refuse to operate.
This sounds more like what your dispatcher is telling the crew to do, he or she is giving them permission to operate the switches from the cab via radio, and line themselves out of the yard.
Stay Frosty,
Stay Cut in...
Ed[:D]

[Anonymous]

That brings-up a good point - on the BNSF West Hump Dispatcher channel up here
in Minnesota, I always hear references to "push-button your route" or "It's OK to push
the buttons" and I know they're giving permission to a specific train crew to line the
switches to get from one point to another within the yard limits. What type of switch
control is that which they are referring-to as "push-button the switches"? Is this some
type of remote control that can be used from within the cab?

[heavyd]

yah, they are for propane heated switch heaters. I think they are more common in CTC because crews don't really have to get out to through switches, or push buttons with the auto-normal ones found in OCS.

[Anonymous]

A lot of RR's use this or A metal kerosene filled lamp to keep the switches from freezeing up in cold weather Its pretty cold in some places so the flame from the lamp will keep It from icing over Also the switchman can see the switch
A little better in the dark If Its lit up

[zardoz]

Any switches nearby? Some railroads use propane for the switch heaters.

[timthechef]

My wife and I where just on a walk and she asked me what the propane tanks on the side of the tracks were for. I have no idea! There isn't anything that I can see that uses propane near them and I see them in several locations. I know they are propane because we saw a propane truck filling one. Can anyone shed some light on this?