Rather new to all of this!

[Anonymous]

Hi there!
My name is Kieren and I live in England. Having only ever seen Northern American Railroading twice (Toronto and New York!) I am still very confused by much of what happens over there! So if you don't mind me posing a few stupid questions............(I know you may see them as obvious but I've no idea what happens over there!)
1, When is the locomotive's warning bell used?
2, Is a grade crossing where a road crosses rail (we call them Level Crossings.)
3, What is the most powerfull diesel locomotive? And it's power! i.e 2,500hp
4, Does hump shunting still happen in the US and Canada?

I think that will do for now! Thank you for your help![:D]
Kindest Regards
Kieren

[Anonymous]

1) when initiating movement, over grade crossings, when men or equipment are near the track, when the brakeman is asleep on the second unit and the trainmaster is coming on the engine (if the attendant call is bad order).
2) yup
3) nowadays, 6000 hp. I think that there were some higher hp units in the past, but, I don't deal with them therefore I don't care
4) I have no idea what this means
Welcome to the forum
Ken

[CShaveRR]

4) Yes, I work in a classification yard where a hump is used to switch cars.

[ironhorseman]

Hello and welcome to the forums!

To add to ironken's answers:

2)They're also known as grade level crossings. It's all interchangable.

4)I guess by hump shunting you mean hump yards where the freight cars are sorted by being rolled over humps. Trains Magazine did a 2-part series on the yard in June and July 2002 called "Railroad's Hidden Half: The Yard." If you did a search on this website you might be able to find excerpts fromt the articles. The jist of the part one was about the history of the yard, why they are located where they are, and how the yards of the 1950s worked. Part two was bascially about the modern yard and the new technology in hump yarding.

[techguy57]

To add to everyone else:

On Chicago's METRA commuter rail the bell is pretty much used all of the time. Don't know if other commuter rails do this or not, though.

[jchnhtfd]

Kieren! Welcome! and remember, we were all new at this once upon a time -- there are no dumb questions, only dumb answers (we're good at those). The most powerful (in terms of horsepower) engines I can think of ever used in the US were Union Pacific's Co-Co gas turbines, rated at 8,500 hp for each unit. UP always did like big engines... horsepower on steam engines is hard to define, but there were some which were right up there.

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: On Chicago's METRA commuter rail the bell is pretty much used all of the time. Don't know if other commuter rails do this or not, though.

I believe the bell is rung when a passenger train is moving (or preparing to move) through a station.

[techguy57]

Hey, Alton[:)]

Yeah, that is the case, but there are also sections with longer runs between stations that they leave it ringing. One example is between Cary and Crystal Lake stations. Is this common other places either with Metra or with other commuter rails?

[AltonFan]

techguy,

I've never heard trains ring their bells except at grade crossings and when approaching and passing through stations. Of course, along the North West Line, there are few really long stretches between grade crossings and stations. It might be more efficient to just let the bell ring. I also wonder if local ordinances might require bell ringing. Of course, constant horn-blowing led to angry protests.

Remember those horrible electronic bells the old Milwaukee Road diesels had?

[wabash1]

the bell rings anytime the engineer wants it to. at the first crossing and then never turns it off. that way he dont haft to keep turning it on and off just leave it on.

[CShaveRR]

On the Metra line I'm familiar with (UP West), the bell is used at all grade (or level, for Kieren) crossings, and when entering or leaving a station platform area. It is shut off while the train is stopped at the stations, and between crossings that are some distance apart (the bell is important, since the horn is not sounded at many of these crossings). The ditch lights on the locomotives and cab cars are tied in with the bell...turn on the bell and the ditch lights start flashing alternately. The bell is annoying to passengers in the forward half of the cab car, since it's right below the left front corner. (CNW's old gongs were a lot easier to take!)

[techguy57]

Okay, that makes sense for a couple of reasons:

1.) This part of the NW line is where that nasty Metra vs. school bus accident was in '95. Terrible thing that unfortunately ultimately killed seven kids and injured another 25. I know of this link if you're not familiar with it:
http://www.emergency.com/fxrvrgv.htm

2.)The ditch lights run constantly up here, so if they are hooked together that would also make sense.

3.) Crystal Lake is the ending point for a lot of the rush hour trains and for most rains they ask that passengers move to the last car after the FRG stop. The bell wouldn't bother most folks in this case.

4.)The engineers just run that way.

Thanks for the feedback

Mike

[Anonymous]

1. As far as I know Metra (Chicago's Commuter Line) uses there warning bells at crossings, when departing a station, and when starting up. tech guy, I believe they uses them contiously on the Rock Island Branch line from Gresham to Blue Island......I think

2. Yep.

3. Most powerful now is AC6000CW, a widenosed GE locomotive with AC traction and 6000 H.P. So far the only railways, that I know of thtat have these monsters are CSX and Union Pacific. I have Seen one and they are a monster. They are loud and very large.
In the past as jchnhft said I believe the Monster Gas Turbine Engines had the highest horsepower. Another Union Pacific engine, the U50C, was pretty big not sure of H.P though.

4. As far as I know it does still occur

[michaelstevens]

Kieren,

I am a Brit who as a teenager, trainspotted on the GWR between Didcot and Swindon.
Now I live near the CSX, on the North side of Philadelphia.

A. I hope Rhian is O.K. out there in Basrah. I am scheduled to go out to Iraq in February, to work on the recon project.

B. I#8217;m listening (with one ear) to the Queen#8217;s sarcasm about GWB, on the Beeb (World News).

C. Let#8217;s see what I can do with your questions.

(1) Looks like you#8217;ve got enough info on the #8220;bell#8221; issue.

My comment/question though, is -- how the hell does the brakeman hear the bell -- over the din of the prime mover, even or particularly if he#8217;s inside a modern #8220;comfort cab#8221;.

(2) Yes -- a #8220;grade Xing#8221; in the US, is what we Brits call a #8220;level Xing#8221; -- except that the US variety is not legally (in most States) required to provide any of the physical barriers, commonly found on (the few remaining) British lebvel Xings.

(3) A GM - EMD SD80 or 90 is rated 6000hp -- CSX and UP have a few.
A single Amtrak #8220;tea kettle#8221; AEM7 (bo-bo electric) runs 7000hp.
Most freight RRs lash several 4000 hp units (e.g. EMD#8217;s SD70 or GE#8217;s Dash 9s) together to handle the tonnage.
E.G. customarily on my local CSX (Phila to NY) main line; you#8217;ll see 2 or 3 diesels on a typical 100 car freight train.
As for comparisons with British practice (typically a train size being governed by the capacity of a 3300 hp class 66) -- most probably one would need to review applicable (union) working agreements.

(4) Yes -- there are still (rapidly reducing) instances of #8220;humping#8221; in full view of the public, at select locations on this side of the Atlantic. In fact one of the quaintest extant hump operations, occurs just across the Delaware River from Philly -- at the CSX/NS (Conrail#8217;s Combined Assets) Pavonia Yard, in Camden New Jersey.

Cheers.

Long live Arkell#8217;s -- #8220;Keeps you on the run#8221; (Devizes, Wiltshire).

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan

QUOTE: On Chicago's METRA commuter rail the bell is pretty much used all of the time. Don't know if other commuter rails do this or not, though.

I believe the bell is rung when a passenger train is moving (or preparing to move) through a station.

One reason it may seem like the bell is rung all the time is that in the cab you can barely hear it. On the F40 locos, the bell is mounted below the frame on the fireman's side, and if the fireman's window is closed (which it usually is for safety reasons), the bell is nearly impossible to hear, especially if the train is moving.

Unless the rules have changed in the 10 years since I was running them, Altonfan and techguy57 are correct, you just ring the bell approaching crossings and when traversing a station platform.

Next time you're around suburban equipment, try to notice if the bell is rung as frequently when the train is being operated from the cabcar (where the bell is easy to hear).

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your help folks! Just fitted a sound unit to my SD 40-2, just wondered if I was playng with the sounds correctly! Plus I am planing a trip to the States...fancied seeing some hump shunting/switching. Once again thank you.
And to Michael Stevens. Thank you for your kind words. Rhian is due home in two weeks, she is still safe and sound. I am a fitter for EWS and I can tell you the HP on a 66 may be 3,300........but I'd rather leave a class 60 in charge of anything heavy! There is an excessive amount of traction motor faults on the 66 as they are over worked...as for trying to work on them...bring back the 58 I say! You could do a B exam on them in under an hour! Takes nearly 3 on a 66. Even 37's are easier to keep running!
Keep safe out there Michael and return home. I have already lost two friends.
Best Regards
Kieren

[michaelstevens]

Sorry about all the computer gibberish -- must have been when I "copied and pasted" from "word".
Let me know when you are coming to the US -- you might want to come check out the HO layout, with its GWR steam and all.
As for you being a class 58 "bonehead" -- I should have known !

[Anonymous]

Just to add to Number 1

The bell rings in canada for 2 reasons

A) Passing a station ot platform where Passengers are neaby
B) passing over crossing that have a whistle -exemption

How does a Canadian crossing get a whistle- Exemption?

A) State of the art grade leevel crossing
and B) The grade level corssings must be updated every time a new law is passed requiring an upgrade.

Note: regular crossings withOUT a "whistle exemption" do not have to upgrade their equipment, as they become "grandfathered" in.

[edblysard]

We ring the bell in yard work whenever the locomotive is backing up, to warn yard crews on the off, or engineer's blind side.
It is also rung when as a signal to the ground crew that a hand signal is being acknowledged, or to get their attention.
And we ring the bell at all grade crossings.
Stay frosty,
Ed

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Train size in the United States is limited only by the strength of the drawbars. Multiple-unit operation is the norm so the horsepower rating of a single locomotive is rarely a factor. Why is multiple-unit operation of locomotives not used in the UK and Europe?
In Chicago, hump operations at BRC's Clearing yard can be seen from the Cicero Ave. overpass, although a pair of binoculars would help.

[jchnhtfd]

Just a couple of probably superfluous additions to the horsepower comments... Uncle Pete's U50C was one big puppy, but I don't have the horsepower handy (sorry) -- but I think less than 6,000. Looking up steam, a number of the big 4-8-4 s developed at least 6,000 horsepower in the cylinders (N&W Class J, SP's 4900 series, UP's FEFs, NYCs Niagaras, for instance) and were awesome beasts. UPs Challengers were over 6,000 horsepower in the cylinders. One of UPs FEFs (8444) and one Challenger (3985) still run. Beautifully. If you come to the States, try to get to see one of them in action!

We left out electric motors (engines? whatever...) entirely. Amtrak's little toasters -- the AEM7s -- were and are close to 9,000 horsepower continuous. I should know what the Acelas are rated at. I don't. I'll look it up for you. BUT... what I still think is one of the greatest train-movers ever built, anywhere, any time (you're welcome to argue), Pennsy's GG-1s, were rated at 4.650 hp continuous, but could develop -- and routinely did -- between 8,500 hp and 10,000 hp (depended on the pantograph as much as anything) for 5 minutes without frying anything. VERY handy in accelerating 20 or so Pullmans westbound up out of the Hudson tubes, and a thrill to either watch or be on board for!

[Anonymous]

I have another stupid question! Sorry guys. But what exactly does a breakman do? I know they used to run along the roofs of cars in the 1800's, but what do they do now?
CSSHEGEWISCH: Multi-locomotive working occurs on the European system quite often! But as our trains are never close to the weight and size of the American efforts...we really don't have much call for it in England! Althoug I have been fortunate enough to travel on tripple headed 37's in Sout Wales!
Michael Stevens: Thank you for the offer. I'm looking at about April time next year.
As a volunteer at my local heratage railway I have been fortunate to Drive and Fire many great Western Locomotives! I must say the Hall class impressed me! And the 28xx.....wonderfull!!!
Best Regards
Kieren
P.S Whats wrong with being a bone head. I shall admit to shedding a tear when I second manned the final tour![V]

[brilondon]

Welcome to the Forums Kieren. I hope you will enjoy the freindly bantor that occurs here. I lived in England for four years and that is where I hooked up with other railfans in England. If you don't mind I would like to know what part of England are you from?

[jchnhtfd]

I can't wait to see what some of the old heads on the forum have to say in answer to 'what does the brakeman do?'[:D]

In the bad old days, that was exactly what he did: ran along the tops of cars, setting the hand brakes on signal from the engineer. Life expectancy was poor. Nowadays he's kind of the all around ground guy: he does set hand brakes (required when leaving a car or cut of cars unattended), but he also throws switches, checks along the train for correct action in air brake tests, and so on... generally, things the engineer/fireman/conductor/whoever in the cab doesn't want to get out in the rain and do.[:)]

[michaelstevens]

Bonehead,

Your E address (from your "profile") woudn't work.
Let me know (on [e-mail]) -- when you're coming over and we'll find somewhere to have a decent pint.