An intelligent topic about RR crossings

[dekemd]

My personal recommendation would be a standard traffic light. Have it change to yellow at 30 seconds, then red at 25 seconds before the train came across the crossing. Most people who run red lights do so in the first five seconds after the light turns red. I see very few people run a red light after it's been red for a while. This would still give 20 seconds before the train reached the crossing. It shouldn't be anymore expensive than the standard flashing lights and gates.

Of course, no one has ever drove around the gates at a crossing when I was sitting nearby in my patrol car. Imagine that.[:D]

[dekemd]

My personal recommendation would be a standard traffic light. Have it change to yellow at 30 seconds, then red at 25 seconds before the train came across the crossing. Most people who run red lights do so in the first five seconds after the light turns red. I see very few people run a red light after it's been red for a while. This would still give 20 seconds before the train reached the crossing. It shouldn't be anymore expensive than the standard flashing lights and gates.

Of course, no one has ever drove around the gates at a crossing when I was sitting nearby in my patrol car. Imagine that.[:D]

[kenneo]

It must be that I am really ancient, or something, but I can remember when only the most busy crossing had flashing lights. There were a few with wig-wags. These were improtant but less busy. The rest had crossbucks and the private crossings had nothing. Those special few with flashing lights or wig-wags had control circuits that duplicated ABS systems, just that they were restricted to the individual crossing. Problem was, a train would get into the circuit and stop or there would be a fault in the circuit and the lights and wig-wags would continue to flash and wig and wag. I still hear drivers say "There's no train comming. The're just broke. Drive around them." The other main attitude or habit is people being in a hurry and not wanting to even wait a few seconds.

The Santa Fe had signs in Arizona and New Mexico that had wording to this effect -- "It takes the train 20 seconds to clear this crossing whether you're in front of the train or not."

I have been told that the only reason that crossing gates are built as they are is to permit emergency vehicles to pass through. I can not prove or disprove that statement.

The problem with the "old" type of controll system for lights is that it is "non-adjustable" and they turn on when the train is at a specific point in its approach to the crossing. The train could be "fast", the setting for the crossing, or "slow" and take "forever" getting to the crossing. People expect the latter and have a tendency to run the lights/gates.

There is a fix for that problem, but it is nearly as expensive as the crossing itself, and they are called predictors. A predictor is a computer controlled device that "sits on top" of the older circuits and adjusts the action of the lights, bells and gates to reflect the speed of the approaching train. It does this by sending a coded signal through the "original" approach circuit the signal is returned to it in such a way that the computer can determine approach speed and then properly operate the warning devices.

How sensitive are predictors? Well, they can tell if the train is stopped. They can tell if a train is in the circuit or not. They know if a train reverses direction within the circuit. They can determine the speed from zero to (you set the limit).

I would think that universal use of the predictor system, a red-yellow-green traffic light and a red-light camera would go a very long ways to control this situation. The only "sure cure", of course, would be total security barriers around railroad property and absolutely no grade crossings, niether of which is practical at this time.

[kenneo]

It must be that I am really ancient, or something, but I can remember when only the most busy crossing had flashing lights. There were a few with wig-wags. These were improtant but less busy. The rest had crossbucks and the private crossings had nothing. Those special few with flashing lights or wig-wags had control circuits that duplicated ABS systems, just that they were restricted to the individual crossing. Problem was, a train would get into the circuit and stop or there would be a fault in the circuit and the lights and wig-wags would continue to flash and wig and wag. I still hear drivers say "There's no train comming. The're just broke. Drive around them." The other main attitude or habit is people being in a hurry and not wanting to even wait a few seconds.

The Santa Fe had signs in Arizona and New Mexico that had wording to this effect -- "It takes the train 20 seconds to clear this crossing whether you're in front of the train or not."

I have been told that the only reason that crossing gates are built as they are is to permit emergency vehicles to pass through. I can not prove or disprove that statement.

The problem with the "old" type of controll system for lights is that it is "non-adjustable" and they turn on when the train is at a specific point in its approach to the crossing. The train could be "fast", the setting for the crossing, or "slow" and take "forever" getting to the crossing. People expect the latter and have a tendency to run the lights/gates.

There is a fix for that problem, but it is nearly as expensive as the crossing itself, and they are called predictors. A predictor is a computer controlled device that "sits on top" of the older circuits and adjusts the action of the lights, bells and gates to reflect the speed of the approaching train. It does this by sending a coded signal through the "original" approach circuit the signal is returned to it in such a way that the computer can determine approach speed and then properly operate the warning devices.

How sensitive are predictors? Well, they can tell if the train is stopped. They can tell if a train is in the circuit or not. They know if a train reverses direction within the circuit. They can determine the speed from zero to (you set the limit).

I would think that universal use of the predictor system, a red-yellow-green traffic light and a red-light camera would go a very long ways to control this situation. The only "sure cure", of course, would be total security barriers around railroad property and absolutely no grade crossings, niether of which is practical at this time.

[traisessive1]

There isnt much you can do anymore to stop people.
Where i live i watched a guy walk infront of a 4 car passenger train going 85mph with about 4 seconds to spare. Well if he waited an extra 4 seconds the engineer wouldnt have had to have that heart attack (figure of speech) for nothing.

The way I see it is people are morons in general and only think of themselves, sooo.......if they want to cause other people greif and pain for their own stupidity go ahead, die, I hope your happy...........you killed yourself and caused haslte for many others.

[traisessive1]

There isnt much you can do anymore to stop people.
Where i live i watched a guy walk infront of a 4 car passenger train going 85mph with about 4 seconds to spare. Well if he waited an extra 4 seconds the engineer wouldnt have had to have that heart attack (figure of speech) for nothing.

The way I see it is people are morons in general and only think of themselves, sooo.......if they want to cause other people greif and pain for their own stupidity go ahead, die, I hope your happy...........you killed yourself and caused haslte for many others.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by traisessive1

I hope your happy...........you killed yourself and caused haslte for many others.

The problem, is that they usually kill several innocent people along with them. Often children. If it were not for the fact that the driver is dead, he/she would be brought up on one or another of various murder charges (probably some form of vehicular homicide). What they are really doing amounts - in legal terms - to murder/suicide.

The other thing, is, that not all of these accidents are negligence. This winter, near Madras, Oregon, a family was on the way from their ranch to school. Dad was at work at his perimedic's job. On the way, the family drove a road that dipped off a small ledge to the railroad tracks. Road is covered with ice with a layer of water on top. They tried stopping more than a quarter mile away, slowing from their raod speed of less than 20 mph. But they did not get stopped prior to the top of the "hill" and slid down the road for 1/4 mile to finally stop underneath the moving train. Dad was on the rescue crew.

So, when we are talking on this subject, we should realize that a few of these messes are not stupid jerk caused. Everybody involved really did try to do it right.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by traisessive1

I hope your happy...........you killed yourself and caused haslte for many others.

The problem, is that they usually kill several innocent people along with them. Often children. If it were not for the fact that the driver is dead, he/she would be brought up on one or another of various murder charges (probably some form of vehicular homicide). What they are really doing amounts - in legal terms - to murder/suicide.

The other thing, is, that not all of these accidents are negligence. This winter, near Madras, Oregon, a family was on the way from their ranch to school. Dad was at work at his perimedic's job. On the way, the family drove a road that dipped off a small ledge to the railroad tracks. Road is covered with ice with a layer of water on top. They tried stopping more than a quarter mile away, slowing from their raod speed of less than 20 mph. But they did not get stopped prior to the top of the "hill" and slid down the road for 1/4 mile to finally stop underneath the moving train. Dad was on the rescue crew.

So, when we are talking on this subject, we should realize that a few of these messes are not stupid jerk caused. Everybody involved really did try to do it right.

[dfandrews]

May I suggest additional reading: N.Y. Times News Service article from last year some time, by Erica Goode, "STUDY FINDS INCOMPETENT PEOPLE TOO INCOMPETENT TO REALIZE TRUTH."

[dfandrews]

May I suggest additional reading: N.Y. Times News Service article from last year some time, by Erica Goode, "STUDY FINDS INCOMPETENT PEOPLE TOO INCOMPETENT TO REALIZE TRUTH."

[MP57313]

In the Los Angeles area, the new MTA Gold Line opens this weekend, and most of it follows a former Santa Fe route from LA to Pasadena. Most of the crossings have four-quadrant gates and even pedestrian gates. But what do you bet we'll see a fatal accident in the not-too-distant future. Such an accident will likely be caused by the dare-devil/thrill-seeker approach to life that some people have...

[MP57313]

In the Los Angeles area, the new MTA Gold Line opens this weekend, and most of it follows a former Santa Fe route from LA to Pasadena. Most of the crossings have four-quadrant gates and even pedestrian gates. But what do you bet we'll see a fatal accident in the not-too-distant future. Such an accident will likely be caused by the dare-devil/thrill-seeker approach to life that some people have...

[mudchicken]

If they still have the idiotic "no whistle" rule enforced by the city through there and people still climb all over the Alhambra viaduct like they did in the 90's , it's a slam dunk.....

[mudchicken]

If they still have the idiotic "no whistle" rule enforced by the city through there and people still climb all over the Alhambra viaduct like they did in the 90's , it's a slam dunk.....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

In the Los Angeles area, the new MTA Gold Line opens this weekend, and most of it follows a former Santa Fe route from LA to Pasadena. Most of the crossings have four-quadrant gates and even pedestrian gates. But what do you bet we'll see a fatal accident in the not-too-distant future. Such an accident will likely be caused by the dare-devil/thrill-seeker approach to life that some people have...

There probably will be some sort of accident. I don't think that there is any crossing anywhere in the world that is 100% idiot-proof. There are a great deal of the daredevils and thrill-seekers out there. I once heard about a guy from a town near where I live whose idea of fun was to stand in the middle of the track as a train was coming and, like a moron, happily wave at the crew on board. He would then jump away at the very last second as the train got right to him. The last time he tried this he had been drinking...I don't think I need to say the outcome. If you think that guy was stupid I also heard of a pedestrian who was so impatient while waiting for a train that he actually tried to craw under the moving train to get to the other side. It's not just the motorists we have to worry about.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

In the Los Angeles area, the new MTA Gold Line opens this weekend, and most of it follows a former Santa Fe route from LA to Pasadena. Most of the crossings have four-quadrant gates and even pedestrian gates. But what do you bet we'll see a fatal accident in the not-too-distant future. Such an accident will likely be caused by the dare-devil/thrill-seeker approach to life that some people have...

There probably will be some sort of accident. I don't think that there is any crossing anywhere in the world that is 100% idiot-proof. There are a great deal of the daredevils and thrill-seekers out there. I once heard about a guy from a town near where I live whose idea of fun was to stand in the middle of the track as a train was coming and, like a moron, happily wave at the crew on board. He would then jump away at the very last second as the train got right to him. The last time he tried this he had been drinking...I don't think I need to say the outcome. If you think that guy was stupid I also heard of a pedestrian who was so impatient while waiting for a train that he actually tried to craw under the moving train to get to the other side. It's not just the motorists we have to worry about.