Problem for the future of model railroading?

[Anonymous]

Another thought that occured to me is maybe,JUST MAYBE, the manufactures realize that the hobby is slowly comming to the end of the line!! Hence lets raise the prices and grab as much of that "old" disposable income before it winds up in the nursing homes!!

[Anonymous]

It is hard for me to read all the doom and gloom I have just read in the past fifteen minutes.
So manfacturers offer, in plastic, locomotives that have tremendous realistic features like sound that cost a bundle, I needed an 0-4-0 for my dockyard that cost twentyfive bucks so your hobby can be as cheap or expensive as you want.
I have also read about getting kids involved in the hobby, hey I was given a HO set when I was twelve or thirteen but I did not decide to build a layout until I was in my fifties. One of the things that the kids do not have now, is the famous passenger trains. I mean, nobody writes songs about Amtrak like "Rock Island Line' "Wabash Cannonball" or "City of New Orleans" so it is up to us, the enthusiasts, to keep the romance of the railroads alive and to educate the younger generation that the railroads were the most important thing that happened to build this country.
The railroads are as big a monument as the Statue of Liberty.

[jsanchez]

Maybe you should do like the shortlines and buy used railcars and save money, the real railroads do this all the time, truck models aren't to cheap either, Model Power raised their prices on the Kenworth semi's again, the Athearn Ready to Roll trucks are pricey too....

[Anonymous]

I e-mailed Athearn, model railroader, and other manufacture Companies to seek there apinion and imput on this discussion. None responded. They seem to careless what the public thinks or our concerns. I do think they are not thinking about the future like they want us to believe. I would like to see a national poll on how everyone feels about the hobby, its problems, and where they think its headed in the future. Tony

[Anonymous]

When I was a kid I was raised with my grandparents for a good part of my childhood. As the oldest grandkid I got a new train set every once and awhile. Tyco, Bachman, Ho & N gauge. I took a liking to my grandpas lionel trains. As I look at them now I sea a ratty, beatup and warn loco....that runs as if new! But the amsing thing I just learned was that this train was handed to my grandpa from his father in law. My grandparents had 7 kids that ran, dropped, crashed this loco. A 60+ year old train that I will have to give (hopefully no time soon) to my kids & grandkids. WOW!

Now I know some of you are wondering where Im going with this. If this hobby is to grow or at least hold a steady clip, they need to show the long term value of the hobby. More open houses of Model Railroad Club Layouts, more hands on classes on 'how to'. I admit it's hard to show a friend that its a fun hobby while browsing at a $300 loco. But I also know that ther is a few good deals if you know where to look!

I find my self looking more and more at 2nd hand equiptment. It usualy already runs and its easyer to weather a nasty looking car then a new one out of the box. So if i screw up its not a costly error! (I know you understand)

Good Luck and Have fun!
Icemanmike2-Milwaukee
Home of the Hiawatha's

[Anonymous]

I agree with your statements and have been a train fan for a long time and have noticed that the amount of model railroaders has went down along with the train fans they come and go ,but one thing that will always be there is true railfans which there are about a handful in the UNITED STATES.they will keep the hobby going not the 6 year old who plays the computer game and will as a young adult .to them its old ,boring look at nascar its going to be the biggest hobby around its in every toy store and news stand.I think though that will be in good shape lionel raises prices all the time and people can't get enough of them .thanks bnsfpete

[Anonymous]

In my humble opinion, the model railroad suppliers will lose a lot to the the computer software makers. I stopped buying models and bought railroad simulator software that has replaced my model railroad. It's sad for the hardware boys, how many others like me?

[Anonymous]

I think one of the big reasons for kids not taking an interest in the hobby is that are no longer any of the big steam locomotives in everyday service. I remember as a kid standing on a railroad overpass watching a steamer coming towards me and being wrapped in warm steam as it passed underneath. Like every other kid in my neighbourhood, I wanted to be an engine driver. With the passing of steam, I think a lot of the romance went out of the railroads. Of course, with the rise of air travel, all the famous passenger trains disappeared so modern day kids no longer have excitement train travel used to bring.
Pop

[JoeKoh]

Matt enjoys my ho layout plus the BIG trains as we go to a park here in Defiance.Its something else that we can do together.
stay safe
joe

[Anonymous]

To flocala and others,

I used to do model railroads when I was a kid, the equipment wasn't that expensive, and my interests were just running trains around, and trying out different modelling ideas.

Now, as an adult, I own Auran software that really fulfills my dreams of modelling in a way that allows me to create limitless routes, and is cost-effective. For those interested in operations, this is great, and even the details get better on the computerized polyshapes.

For those interested in standard real-world modelling, the kit approach is now split away from the operations aspect. The marketing for model railroads has been severed between those who like to spend lots of time or money on physical realism, or those with smaller wallets who can keep improving virtual realism.

To survive, companies like Athearn are going to be driven toward niche-marketing.

Trainz software has a giant community of user approaching 100,000 worldwide members who are all dedicated to rail modelling on computer.

www.auran.com/trainz

Modelling is moving into the virtual world. That's where its future is.

[starwardude]

I blame the money - hungry fat-cats. I'm 12 years old and REALLY like model railroading. I have 60+ HO scale freight& passenger cars and locomotives.I also blame the media [:(!](except for train related magazines)[;)].

[starwardude]

PS.Introduce kids to trains early in life. I've loved the hobby since I was 6 years old.
PPS. If anyone here lives in CT here are 3 towns to see: Kent, West Haven, and Essex. "Bring the whole family!"

[Anonymous]

I am not sure that I share all of the doom and gloom that everyone else seems to feel about the future of this model railroading.

I have been an active modeler for since the 1960's which is long enough for me to have seen a lot of trends.

Some of you who are old enough will recall the uproar about cheap, "shake the box" plastic kits which somehow was a sign of very bad things to come: all the "real" modelers were going to desert the hobby and there would be nobody serious left to perpetuate it.

Then there was the slot car craze in the 1960's that was definitely going to be a nail in the coffin. It didn't happen.

Now we have ready-built rolling stock and high prices. I'm not terribly nuts about the ready-built stuff myself so I search out whatever kits are available (and there still are a lot), or I scratch build what I need. As for rising prices, what else is new? I have some older cars on the shelf that cost under $3! Those days are long gone. As are $5 cars and $9 cars. Pricewise, the beat goes on, as does the hobby.

Likewise, the neighborhood train store may no longer be around, replaced at least in part by mail order and high volume Internet sites. But who really knows if this is permanent? It may just be because of a soft economy since 9-11. In any case, I can recall when there was no such thing as a stand alone "train store." In my home town, the local paint and wallpaper store and the local camera store carried trains as a sideline. That was it, period. The 100% train shop, at least in smaller communities, is a relatively recent thing. It may be on the way out, but you can still buy whatever you want if you really want it. You just have to do it differently, which seems to bother some of us.

My point is that all things change and that makes people uncomfortable and they fear the worst. I prefer to look at the bright side. First of all, there is an active, industry-wide promotion to encourage model railroading. Second, there has been a huge proliferation of rolling stock and locomotives in all scales, along with innovations such as DCC and onboard sound systems that were unheard of just a couple of decades ago. This would not be occuring if the market were truly dead or dying.

Finally, the quality of what is out there is generally better. Yes, there are some exceptions and disappointments, but if you ever had to deal with nothing but brass track (code 100 only,of course), fiber ties, two-wheel power pickup, rubber band drives, funky couplers and plastic wheels, etc., you would quickly see that what's available today is far superior and well worth the price.

John

[Anonymous]

I would be happy if someone would make an ALCo RSD-15 in plastic. Forgive me for being selfish but i'm tired of F units they're like a#$holes, everybody's got one!!!!!!!!!!!! [xx(][:p][:D][8D] I'm sick of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Although most all of the new products coming out today are top quality RTR products for serious or finanically inclined modelers, there are quite a few products out on the market for beginner modelers or modelers that don't wi***o sink very much money into the hobby. Athearn makes many locomotive models that you can purchase for around $30 a piece or you can purchase DCC ready locomotives from Atlas or Athearn for around $60. Buy a decoder for $15 from any number of manufacturers. Walthers makes many building kits that can be purchased in the $25 to $35 range. A DCC system by MRC called Prodigy can be purchased for about $125. Track sections from Atlas can be bought at prices less than $2, switches cost around $8. One could easily purchase everything needed to build a free-standing, 4x8 foot, very high quality model railroad for $500. If you set up your trains on an available table top you could cut that cost by $100 to $150.

[timthechef]

I'm a new comer to the hobby. I have just started to build a layout in my basement. I don't buy finished models or buildings I enjoy building them myself. I'ts cheaper and I can detail them the way I want. Yes this hobby is expensive, but look at any hobby today and they are all the same. You can spend as much as you want on anything you want. I think that there is a lot of interest out there, but space is limeted and not everyone has the room to build a large layout. (mine is only 4X6) My father modeled trains when I was a kid and he is the one who got me interested. I am 42 now and just made the time and the place for my layout, I've waited all my life for this and I intend on passing this passion on to my children so maybe some time when they are ready they will want to do this too. I think that is all we can do to keep this hobby going.

[JoeKoh]

Tell me about it.I went from a 11'x 16' layout to a 4x8 layout.Matt had a yard but it was taken down when we got the computer.But you can make it how you want and pass it on.
stay safe
joe

[emdgp92]

The deals are out there, if you look for them. A few months ago, I picked up a Bachmann F40PH, still in the shrink-wrapped box... for $22! Even though the engine is probably 10 years old now, it runs great! Most of my other equipment (except for the other F40, 2 Athearn Fs, and some passenger cars ) was used, and therefore less expensive. Once the older stuff has been tuned up, repainted, and weathered.. it's impossible to tell it from new. Who says this hobby has to be expensive? :)

[vsmith]

Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents...price isn't the only issue.

Biggest challenge in getting younger kids interested is prying the Gameboy out of their fingers. Its not just Model RR thats been suffering from lack of interest. Its any hands-on hobby thats suffering. Too many other distractions for kids who are no longer interested in using anything other than thier thumbs pressing the "fire" button on their computer games to blow away anyone and everyone on thier computer screen with a chainsaw! guess I'm a little pessimistic about this aspect of todays youth, but isnt it interesting that childhood obesity rates started going up about the same time that all these computer games started showing up?

As for price, when I was a kid a five doller car was ALOT of money to me. I think in relation to inflation most (not all) items today are at the same price level they were 20 or 30 years ago. Remember a good new car thirty years ago could was only $5000, its up to $20,000 now thats a four fold increase so if a 1970 starter loco was $15.00 it would be $60.00 today. Not to far off.

For me the biggest problem is exclusionary attitude from "serious" model RR's who scoff at that 4x8 layout. The small layout to me represents about 75 to 80% of the hobby, but the manufacturers are catering to an ever smaller (and Pricier) market.

[Anonymous]

I too buy a great deal of stuff used. Not only can you find deals, but it's also quite interesting because you never know what you will find next. I once bought a lot of about 10 HO engines with close to 50 cars as well as other items from an antique shop for $50 (Canadian money). It had come to the antique store from someone who's grandfather had been a model railroader and had died recently. No one else in the family had any interest in it. I of course have always been thrilled at what a great deal I found, but the story behind it does sadden me. These trains had probably been this man's pride and joy and after he passed on his family was only concerned about getting rid of them. At least though, they're in the hands of someone who truly appreciates them.

I'll be 17 in less than a week, so I'm quite young when compared to most others in this hobby. I myself have never had any interest in video games and am very concerned about how many of today's kids are getting their minds warped because of them. On this website under the section Trains For The Young there's a very excellent article about kids, video games and model trains. I found it to have a lot of very profound thoughts on this issue. I don't have a train simulator on my computer, but I do beieve that they are quite fun and think that the things you can do with them are quite amazing. I however would never ever consider giving up my model trains in favour of one! There's so much virtual reality in this world. I don't know about the others out there, but I would much rather have reality. There's a certain feeling of pride one gets in having a layout, whether it's a very basic 4x8 or an enormous scale detailed masterpiece. Imagine how scary it would be if railfanning and model railroading were replaced by computers.

I'm not a rivet counter, but there are a lot of them out there. You don't have to be a scale freak to enjoy this hobby. I can recall as a kid seeing a cartoon where Donald Duck had a garden railroad. He had a ruler and walked around measuring everything to see if it was to scale. When he discovered Chip and Dale and the tree they lived in in his yard he wanted to get rid of them because they were out of scale. This isn't too far off from some modelers (no offence to anyone intended). An important part of this hobby is that there are many different aspects of it and you can build a layout any way you want to. If you want it to be an exact model of a real railroad operation you can and if you want to be creative and make up somethng all on your own you can too. There's been talk of too much RTR stuff on this thread. I don't have a problem with. If you don't like it-don't buy it. There should be a good variety of RTR and kits of various difficulty available so everybody can buy what they want for their own railroad to suit their tastes. But I do think that the prices are getting a bit out of hand. I don't think we have anything to worry about concerning current hobbyists quitting, the real problem is getting the younger generation interested and that's what this thread was supposed to be about. We all need to make an extra special effort to get kids interested, they're the future of this hobby.

[Anonymous]

The big issues for me are space and money. I would love to do a layout, but don't have the space. I think with more apartment dwellers these days, fewer people have room to do a layout Money is also a big consideration. I like several others in this post own Trainz. It is really enjoyable and I think I have learned more about railroad operations than I would have otherwise.

[Anonymous]

As I see it, companies like LIONEL and others that have already or are just attempting to break into the HO market and are charging $500-$700 for a plastic or Diecast loco such as the one that LIONEL is, are only pricing them selves right out of the market. LIONEL is a great example, belly up in the HO market and they don't even know it yet. Really, who in their right mind is going to shell out that kind of money on diecast or plastic? [:(][:(][:(][V][V][V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Tom O. I disagree..I feel it is the prices that scare most folks off as most still see model trains as toys unlike the other things you mention.Sorry our model trains are adult toys-no more no less...And that is the way most folks see it.Would a normal kid rather have 3 $50.00 games to one $150.00 engine? One skate board that little Johnny or Sue can ride with their friends? Todays kids want action and want it NOW! What good is that $150.00 engine going to do them when they don't have a layout to run it on..Forget most clubs..Adults only! Kids need not apply! Again whose to blame?

[Anonymous]

I belong to the N.M.R.A. and have off and on for about 15 years. I had the experiance in nortern Ohio of a member of the modular group in Div 4 complaining of my son{who helped set up at the show}because he used{i.e.-played}the layout at the end of the day and did nothing destructive other than mix the cars up! With this type of imput I now don`t take as much time with the hobby as I once did.Also it didn`t help that I don`t seem to be the right religon{I don`t celebrate Christmas} to volunter my time. With this sort of influence in the hobby it will become non-existant in just a short while!

[Anonymous]

I belong to the N.M.R.A. and have off and on for about 15 years. I had the experiance in nortern Ohio of a member of the modular group in Div 4 complaining of my son{who helped set up at the show}because he used{i.e.-played}the layout at the end of the day and did nothing destructive other than mix the cars up! With this type of imput I now don`t take as much time with the hobby as I once did.Also it didn`t help that I don`t seem to be the right religon{I don`t celebrate Christmas} to volunter my time. With this sort of influence in the hobby it will become non-existant in just a short while![:(]

[Anonymous]

When was the last time you spent the money on your son`s participation in the hobby rather than your own?

[Anonymous]

I thought that I replied but it`s not posting them! I have a membership in the N.M.R.A. and have been a member for 12+ years. My youngest son and I put in time setting up at the Carnival of Railroading in Div 4 In northern Oh. I was informed by the acting president of the modular group that he shouldn`t be aloud to operate as he rearranged the cars on the layout. What is the point ! If this is the kind of leadership that we have it will be the last days of an otherwise good orginizational arrangment. I voluntered my time and overheard a remark as to my religion as I don`t celebrate Christmas. Needless to say I don`t put as much value in my associating as I have in the past! With this sort maybe the application for membership should contain disclaimers as to race,religon and ethnic background!

[Train Guy 3]

Yeah this is a big problem for model railraoding. Prices have left me structurerless town. I hope something can be done about this.

[Anonymous]

When I became disabled to the point where I couldn`t work anymore,before I received disability,I took stock evalation of my railroading. I took parts of my collection and did the shows. I have from time to time seen other peaple do the same thing widows,retiree`s and those just giving up the hobby. I have kits that I built with my kids over the years and now one of them is interested in archtecture(wants to take this in collage no less!) an dhas built several models himself. I wonder if I had been just a armchair modeler if he would have the interest`s that he has now? I belive very strongly that we can and will shape our childrens future by what we do with them.The point that I`m trying to make is that if you want to ,no matter how expensive the hobby becomes,you can continue to promote successfully model railroading!

[jamesedwbradley]

Looks like a consensus - esp. agree with Charlie 20, DragginD9 and icemanmike. It bugs me to see mfrs. making a series of cars (hoppers, for example) with different numbers, then decal mfrs. going out of business (Champ) or cutting out many basic sets (Walthers) so that the person who wants to get a bunch of cheap cars at a train show and then work them over, has difficulty. Also, try to get basic car parts easily (box car doors, ends, roof). AND, several years have gone by since Northeastern streamlined passenger roof was available. I have my last 3 precious pieces on hand and must make do with caboose or express reefer roof which doesn't look too bad if you use a good paint scheme and don't look too closely! Someone said 'go to a millwork shop for that' - any idea what they would charge for s.l. passenger roof and what the minimum might be? I'm afraid to ask ! Yes, I'm afraid the hobby is pitched today to those having money but no time. We retired geezers have it the other way around (though must work part time to pay taxes and drug costs).
James E. Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter N.R.H.S.