Running a train by Ear?

[Anonymous]

My brother who works for CXS, told me of teaming up with an old Engineer when he first started there. He was a conductor just off probation when he was teamed up with an Engineer with 22 years of experiance. The CSX had just recieved some of the new wisper cab engines. It was in the middle of winter and cold out but this engineer kept his window wide open and every once in a while would stick his head out. My brother asked him to shut the window for it was cold out. The engineer told him he could not do that for then he would not be able to hear the engine. My brother reminded this Engineer about the Moniter and control panel in front of him. The Engineer then told him "You don't run a train by gauges you run a train by Ear". One day they were pulling a coal train, the Engineer stuck his head out the window and annouced "I don't like the sound of that go shut down the secound unit." My brother checked the gauges on the secound unit and all things looked good but did what he was told. (By this time he thinks this Engineer is some kind of NUT.) Sure enough he went into work the next day and found the unit all torn up. It had a bad bearing in it and would have done major damage. The foremen told him the unit was shut down just in time. My brother never questioned a old timer again. Do most Engineers run there trains by Ear?

[wabash1]

first off there is no gauge to tell you what the engine is doing temp or oil pressure. the only things avalible to us is the air gauges and amp gauge. Now if you are talking about train handling i say it was a railroaders story, if he was talking about how his engines are performing then i say there is some truth to it. i listen to the engines to see if they are running right. but to run a train by the noise it is making that is hard to do with a G.E. unit very easy with a EMD.

[Anonymous]

I believe he was refering to how the engines were running. My brother was new and was wondering why the Engineer would run a train on a cold day with the windows open. As far as the Gauges he was told in conductors school that the engineer could tell everything about a trian from the terminal on the drivers stand.

[Anonymous]

I've been running engines for 28 years. You can indeed tell a lot about what the trailing units are doing by listening to them. You can also tell a lot abbout what your train is doing through your ***. That's right, your ***! You can feel the slack; tell how the train is running through your butt. That's one thing all the simulators lack; no matter how sophisticated they get, none simulate the slack action at the butt. Ask your "old head" engineer about that, eh?

[BRAKIE]

My Grandfathers could tell in a heart beat if there was something not right the steam engines they were running.
Most of the engineers I worked with on the PRR or Chessie would know something was not right with the engines...

I suppose when one gets use to hearing the "correct noises" of a locomotive they could hear when sometime was amiss with the units from the unusual noises that they normally didn't hear much like we do with our cars.

[wabash1]

the best way to run one is to let the rear be comming down hill and you be going up hill and the conductor snoozing. 3am in the morning. place your feet on the wall in front of you. drop it to idle. after they get off the floor no problem staying awake.

[Anonymous]

I have not ran a trian but any equipment I operate, car I drive, or being around any mechanical equipment I always keep a ear on it , its the best way to know how well its running.

gwl
http://photosbygreg.us

[Soo2610]

Your ears and your senses are pretty good at telling you if something is in the process of breaking down. The gauges tell you it is broken.

[BRAKIE]

J,I worked with some old line coductors that would walk over and simply knock you on your behind if you pulled that stunt with them.I suppose most of those old boys would be dead by now or in the 80s and 90s.

My Dad was firing on the NYC and the engineer kept blowing his fire(?) up the stack causing the steam pressure to drop,my Dad threw the shovel into the fire and climb off the engine,he warned him once about doing that and what he would do if he didn't stop.The engineer was pig headed and would not listen.My Dad then went to firing on the PRR within 3 days after leaving the NYC..

[Anonymous]

Hey wabash, how bout breakin' it in two. A nice 50 car stroll with some iron, hammer, cotter pin puller in hand is sure to break the sleep cycle. Had some hogs swear to me that they could determine where they wanted to break it. I think one had more break-in-two reports than paycheck stubs.

[Anonymous]

Alot of guys just don't give a ***. They run it till it quits pullin. I guess thats job security for mechanical. Some hogs use the saying "shove till' it sounds expensive." I like that one.

[wabash1]

i wont tear them up. takes to much time and then you get the trainmaster or roadforman involved. more delay. yuk... but i will say this there isnt a conductor that didnt get warned before i did that. i figure if i am up at 3am in the morning doing my job, he will be to. if not i will wake him...

[Soo2610]

Yeah, I've heard that. I'd also be willing to wager that they don't follow that same policy when it comes to their personal vehicles.

[csxengineer98]

amen, i have been running engins for only 4 years, but long enought to know how to feel a trains slack that way. i cant stand to fly becouse of this skill...i can fell every little
bump on an airplane now

[csxengineer98]

amen, i have been running engins for only 4 years, but long enought to know how to feel a trains slack that way. i cant stand to fly becouse of this skill...i can fell every little
bump on an airplane now

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone I am Rodney I work for the BNSF as a conductor I just started this year but most every engineer i have worked with has had there window cracked open just to hear the engines run and I have also had my window cracked open for the same reason I grew up on a farm and know how a diesel engine sounds when it is loaded up and running there is nothing like pulling a loaded coal train up a hill and both you and the engineer hear the second unit surging which means it is unloading on you and a moment later loading back up some thing like that can cause a pull apart i.e. broken knuckel not fun to change out on the road they weight about 80 lbs the engineers that I have worked with if that happens would rather take the unit offline and take there chances with one as opposed to pulling the train apart if the train can not make the hill the dispatcher is toned up and told about the problem most often the dispatcher can find an empty hopper train that can spare a unit or have a train come up from behind and help pu***he train up the hill.

[Anonymous]

I don't know much as far as riding locomotives is concerned but I have noticed the same subtle sense has developed in me through all the times I have rode speeders. Over the years you get a sixth sense of how the speeder itself is running, cylinders firing right, belt slip, etc. Riding these cars and working on the tracks you also get a feel for the track, the steady ring of good solid rail, the tinny ring of loose rail, the pound of a loose or misaligned joint, and the feel of a stretch of out of gauge tracks or bad track.
Fairmont Motorcar Fan

[wabash1]

rodney exsplain how you can pull a train apart if a unit is surging. and did anyone show you the easy way of getting a knuckle to the area that is needed with out carring to that spot?

[Anonymous]

Dear Braike

Do you mean the engineer turned on the blower or do you meen he was using two much steam in general, also did youre grandfather like working for the PRR or NYC better, also do you know what portion of the PRR he worked on

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets

I've been running engines for 28 years. You can indeed tell a lot about what the trailing units are doing by listening to them. You can also tell a lot abbout what your train is doing through your ***. That's right, your ***! You can feel the slack; tell how the train is running through your butt. That's one thing all the simulators lack; no matter how sophisticated they get, none simulate the slack action at the butt. Ask your "old head" engineer about that, eh?

I have to agree. Having run locomotives for about 7 years now the Engineer's Butt is his most important sensory organ for knowing the condition of the train. Eyes and ears are helpful for keeping up with how the power is doing...

LC

[Anonymous]

Ok . This goes out to all the hoggers out there !!!!!!!!!!! [}:)] You all's attitude is "Run it till it breaks. I don't own it, who cares" . Your mechanical dept. gave you good useable power to leave the yard with. And weather you don't like that particular lead unit or you don't like the run you have been called for , you will do your best to B.O. a unit so you can bust your call.[}:)][:0] Then us lowly machinists have the honor of fixing your screw-ups. Sometimes you primadonna's P#SS ME OFF[:(!] You'll get no sympathy from me when I know how you work.

EX UP MACHINIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!! [:(!][:(!]

[kenneo]

You can feel a lot of things with your butt. When I was working for the shortline as a conductor, we made one particular trip over the mountain with a tonnage train in the direction where we usually had only about 1/3 tonnage.

We had a car that had an old break in the centersill casting where the truck bolster carried the car It had 70 tons in it and this defect and the weight would cause the truck to attempt to straight-rail any curve 10 degree or sharper - and that mountain had a lot of those - up to 18 degrees in four spots. Didn't feel anything going up the hill.

But going down this car would cuase the train to streach enough that you could feel the surge when it tried to lift over the outside rail. I stopped the train 5 times and walked it completely twice, finally pinned it down to the suspect car 5 deep. After doing this for the 5th time in 6 miles, the hogger got pissed and said no more stopping. So, about a mile later, through a slow order requiring walking speed, the car started doing its thing again - it actually felt like we were dragging a car -- which we were by that time! He looked at me across the cab with the strangest look and cleaned the clock just as we went on the ties. Never broke the air line, but we had the head 5 cars on the ground.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets

I've been running engines for 28 years. You can indeed tell a lot about what the trailing units are doing by listening to them. You can also tell a lot abbout what your train is doing through your ***. That's right, your ***! You can feel the slack; tell how the train is running through your butt. That's one thing all the simulators lack; no matter how sophisticated they get, none simulate the slack action at the butt. Ask your "old head" engineer about that, eh?

This goes back to my story about how do you know how fast you are traveling? Count telephone poles, Pi R Square and divide by 2. Yank Yank.... No, you do it by "feel". Dad didn't have to look at the "speed recorder". He had 42 years in and knew exactly how fast he was going - by the feel and the seat of his bib overalls!

Ook

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

the best way to run one is to let the rear be comming down hill and you be going up hill and the conductor snoozing. 3am in the morning. place your feet on the wall in front of you. drop it to idle. after they get off the floor no problem staying awake.

or a fireman that literally brought his pillow and blanket to work! He took featherbedding to an extreme.

Mookie

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

the best way to run one is to let the rear be comming down hill and you be going up hill and the conductor snoozing. 3am in the morning. place your feet on the wall in front of you. drop it to idle. after they get off the floor no problem staying awake.

Wabash, about once per month something I read in these forums makes me laugh out load. Your post did just that. That's hilarious. Have you really done that?

Erik

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

the best way to run one is to let the rear be comming down hill and you be going up hill and the conductor snoozing. 3am in the morning. place your feet on the wall in front of you. drop it to idle. after they get off the floor no problem staying awake.

Wabash, about once per month something I read in these forums makes me laugh out load. Your post did just that. That's hilarious. Have you really done that?

Erik

Yes i do on a regular basis . I have also worked with these same guys after waking them to get lined in to a siding act like i dont hear them on the radio when counted down to a stop. and I will usually stop about 500-800ft further than needed . the 1.5 mile walk gets them up and alert.. but there is a draw back to this, once up they usually start yaking. sometimes silance is golden

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

the best way to run one is to let the rear be comming down hill and you be going up hill and the conductor snoozing. 3am in the morning. place your feet on the wall in front of you. drop it to idle. after they get off the floor no problem staying awake.

Wabash, about once per month something I read in these forums makes me laugh out load. Your post did just that. That's hilarious. Have you really done that?

Erik

Yes i do on a regular basis . I have also worked with these same guys after waking them to get lined in to a siding act like i dont hear them on the radio when counted down to a stop. and I will usually stop about 500-800ft further than needed . the 1.5 mile walk gets them up and alert.. but there is a draw back to this, once up they usually start yaking. sometimes silance is golden

Hi Wabash,
I am getting a vague feeling that you don't care much for conductors[:D]. Say it ain't so![:)] Is it all conductors, or just those that like nappy time?[8D]

Admiral.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by skeets

I've been running engines for 28 years. You can indeed tell a lot about what the trailing units are doing by listening to them. You can also tell a lot abbout what your train is doing through your ***. That's right, your ***! You can feel the slack; tell how the train is running through your butt. That's one thing all the simulators lack; no matter how sophisticated they get, none simulate the slack action at the butt. Ask your "old head" engineer about that, eh?

This goes back to my story about how do you know how fast you are traveling? Count telephone poles, Pi R Square and divide by 2. Yank Yank.... No, you do it by "feel". Dad didn't have to look at the "speed recorder". He had 42 years in and knew exactly how fast he was going - by the feel and the seat of his bib overalls!

Ook

Well, I'm not a hogger, and I have never run a "train" per say, but I did have an opportunity to run an Alco RS1on the New England RR. They have this "Engineer for an Hour" program. For a generous donation to the museum you get instruction, and can run a unit about 4 miles up and back a stretch of closed track. Probably the coolest experience of my life, so far. The guy instructing me told me the same thing. He said anyone can move a throttle. To really run a train, you use your butt and the skill is in the braking. I immediately was able to understand this with my first ever brake application. IT WAS SOOOO COOL.[:)][:D][8D][:D][:D]

Admiral

[wabash1]

Your feelings are wrong. I like conductors I was one once then got enough brains to become a engineer.

The thing is that you do things out on the job to make the time go faster. the things we do to each other are just for fun. Ask Ed he and his engineer probley will do things that would look mean to a outsider but in reality its just kidding around. When i have a conductor walk a little further he might come back with extra stops when yarding a train. if i let the slack hit me to jar the conductor its just in fun. None of this is life threatning or in anyway dangerous. But as you have seen on the post several other railroaders spoke on what they would do but in reality just blowing off at the situation. and then would end up thinking of something they would do to the engineer.

one thing a conductor did to me was after walking up from lining a switch ( a older conductor) he sneaked up on the rear unit and closed the control stand switches so the engines would remain running then got off and disconected the jumper on the engines so they would do nothing but idle. when i took off i had 2 engines that ran but when i hit the hill they just layed down. to make a long story short i had to get my hands dirty and since it was snowing it was cold had to get off the warm engine and mu my engines again. i made sure he stayed on the engine ( lead unit only ) for the rest of the trip.

see nothing bad just a little payback. all in fun.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Your feelings are wrong. I like conductors I was one once then got enough brains to become a engineer.

The thing is that you do things out on the job to make the time go faster. the things we do to each other are just for fun. Ask Ed he and his engineer probley will do things that would look mean to a outsider but in reality its just kidding around. When i have a conductor walk a little further he might come back with extra stops when yarding a train. if i let the slack hit me to jar the conductor its just in fun. None of this is life threatning or in anyway dangerous. But as you have seen on the post several other railroaders spoke on what they would do but in reality just blowing off at the situation. and then would end up thinking of something they would do to the engineer.

one thing a conductor did to me was after walking up from lining a switch ( a older conductor) he sneaked up on the rear unit and closed the control stand switches so the engines would remain running then got off and disconected the jumper on the engines so they would do nothing but idle. when i took off i had 2 engines that ran but when i hit the hill they just layed down. to make a long story short i had to get my hands dirty and since it was snowing it was cold had to get off the warm engine and mu my engines again. i made sure he stayed on the engine ( lead unit only ) for the rest of the trip.

see nothing bad just a little payback. all in fun.

Yeah, I kind of figured it was a prankster type of thing, giving and taking. It happens in just about every line of work. I program computers, and we programmers are playing tricks on each other all the time, too. My original question was all toungue-in-cheek anyway, but I liked reading about the tricks you guys pull. Got any other ones you could share?

Admiral