The 20th Century Railroad Club of Chicago appears to have disbanded and it's website is down. Sad end of an era.
They had some good and well organized fan trips.
With a dated name like theirs, in some ways it is not surprising that a demise has occurred. Society as a whole has radically changed so nothing really should surprise us.
This forum is associated with the railroad industry. While I keep hearing railroads are the most efficient and economical, railroads invariably will face a “time value of money” problem as rail transit times get longer and longer and longer, and autonomous trucks start threatening the industry.
Other companies that are associated with railroading, like TRAINS Magazine, are having a harder and harder time making ends meet, especially as circulation keeps declining. Some of that decline may have been self-inflicted, but the fact is ALL companies face the reality of economics and the laws of repeated history.
Then there is the hate mongering groups! All they are bent on is destroy, destroy, destroy! Whether the 20th Century Railroad Club was victim of them is unclear, but all of us need to be on guard against hate groups.
This certainly was a thought-proving thread. It is a shame more didn’t have something to comment on and to contribute.
Alas, such is the fate of many such organizations.
Part of the problem is a lack of recruitment. Part of the problem is lack of relevance - the youngsters don't care about the topic of the organization.
Oftimes, the original core of the group dies off with no type of succession (ie, new members) in place.
It's a shame that it happens, but it's a common tale, as they say.
The key, for existing organizations, is to bring in younger members. And to welcome those members. All too often, the older members resent the new members and end up driving them away.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
croteauddautonomous trucks start threatening the industry.
I have to scratch my head over this comment. In what way will this threaten the railroad industry? Autonomous operation of a truck does not fundamentally change physics or the economics of a freight train.
Additionally, I believe with targeted infrastructure investments that are happening now, our rail freight network will become more efficient in the next 10 years. I don't know by how much but I have to say just looking at the WisDOT investments in Wisconsin to support the expanded Amtrak service. Operational efficiency on CPKC between Chicago and Twin Cities is improving fairly significantly.
People slam Amtrak a lot in these forums, including myself but there are positive spillovers from Amtrak operations to CPKC operations at least. Once they eventually finish the CREATE projects around Chicago........freight trains will benefit. I never thought I would see the former Milwaukee Road main in South Milwaukee quad tracked (even for a short distance) but it is going to happen.
tree68:
You commented with great insight and understanding!
From the word go (i.e., when I was a young lad) I was fascinated by trains. Unfortunately, other things fascinate kids today, i.e., video games and the like.
One thing that inspired train interest in the past was the great numbers employed by railroads. Now, hardly anyone is employed by railroads! So, the upcoming generation is growing up neutral to railroading.
Perhaps the end of railroading is in sight! Autonomous trucks could end railroading once and for all. I can hardly wait till someone markets an autonomous management! Can you imagine, tree68, the relatively new high rise Union Pacific Center in Omaha being totally empty and a computer in just one room running all the autonomous trains?
Perhaps THAT is the solution to rail clubs chronically losing memberships. With nobody employed, surely there will develop a large clan that likes to see autonomous trains go by! Oh, that’s right, there will be no trains! Just autonomous trucks. A new phrase will be coined: autonomous truckfans!
CMStPnP:
Just picture it: A 100 mile long train. Such would run only once a week!
Where is all this going to end up at? Wouldn’t ultimately time value of money conscious shippers start shipping by autonomous trucks instead of the 100 mile weekly autonomous trains?
croteaudd Perhaps the end of railroading is in sight! Autonomous trucks could end railroading once and for all.
Perhaps the end of railroading is in sight! Autonomous trucks could end railroading once and for all.
croteauddJust picture it: A 100 mile long train. Such would run only once a week! Where is all this going to end up at? Wouldn’t ultimately time value of money conscious shippers start shipping by autonomous trucks instead of the 100 mile weekly autonomous trains?
So your saying a 100 mile train is a possibility on our current rail network? Just curious because that is what it reads like what your saying.
CMStPnP croteaudd Just picture it: A 100 mile long train. Such would run only once a week! Where is all this going to end up at? Wouldn’t ultimately time value of money conscious shippers start shipping by autonomous trucks instead of the 100 mile weekly autonomous trains? So your saying a 100 mile train is a possibility on our current rail network? Just curious because that is what it reads like what your saying.
croteaudd Just picture it: A 100 mile long train. Such would run only once a week! Where is all this going to end up at? Wouldn’t ultimately time value of money conscious shippers start shipping by autonomous trucks instead of the 100 mile weekly autonomous trains?
Replies:
Backshop:
Trains will always be needed, you said. When I was a kid in Southern California many, many years ago, a highlight was seeing the sugar beet train come through. The Southern Pacific SD7’s and SD9’s was scattered in the train, in three or four places!
Today, the sugar beet trains are no more! I pass sugar beet trucks often on the highways.
CMStPmP:
It was said illustratively to make people think. Such also tends to bring out people’s true colors so everyone can see what they really are!
You must have missed it. It was right there on page 2 of the Camera thread.
To All:
Shall we get back to the 20th Century railroad club?
croteaudd CMStPmP: It was said illustratively to make people think. Such also tends to bring out people’s true colors so everyone can see what they really are! To All: Shall we get back to the 20th Century railroad club?
1. You've made us all think, but not in the manner that you think.
2. I've always laughed at posters who take a thread off-topic, and then admonish others to get back on-topic.
3. Would you care to expand on your comment about "hate mongering groups" and how they could have anything to do with a railfan group?
What did the 20th centrury railfan club actually do?
There's plenty of young railfans. They're all over facebook, twitter (err...x), discord, even bluesky. Also plenty of travel blogs on youtube/instagram/etc. Jsut becuase an old group dies out doesn't mean the hobby is dead. Stuff changes with the times.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
croteauddFrom the word go (i.e., when I was a young lad) I was fascinated by trains. Unfortunately, other things fascinate kids today, i.e., video games and the like.
why is it unfortunate? A lot of people like trains and video games.
Cue the "old man yells at clouds" image.
1) So, what meaningful and constructive way did you and your group think?
2) Laughter is the best medicine, Readers Digest says. From laughter, you likely will live a long time. These forums really must have health benefits, don’t they?
3) Why elaborate? Surely you are not naïve. Some people revel in causing trouble and love chaos. Others want to be helpful and seek peace. Which type are you, Backshop?
zugmann:
What kind of question is that? Are you delighted that tens of thousands of railroaders have lost their jobs in the last 50 years?
And it is becoming harder and harder to find upbuilding associates to share our railroading interest. One time on a popular railfan (public) pedestrian bridge in Wyoming, some cute gal approached me and asked a question. I was so surprised and mystified by the question, I said “What?” She perceived I was not the drug dealer or whatever she was looking for and continued across the bridge.
Does all the above explain the use of the word unfortunate?
Reader's Digest isn't doing so hot these days either........
Anyone enjoying this thread may also be interested in a railfan Facebook group called "A Railroad Club Where Everyone Acts Like Boomers". It currently has around 4,200 members and is far from the largest foamer group. And while this make come as quite the shock to croteaudd, Facebook is getting old and is far from the latest greatest thing these days.
Yep, the interest in trains is still out there and so are the people. They've just moved on to different platforms.
It may also interest the OP to know that the 20th Century Railroad Club's Facebook page still exists and was last updated only two days ago. Not quite dead yet.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
croteauddToday, the sugar beet trains are no more!
That you know of. Ag products can move in containers now too.
20th Century Railroad Club has done quite a bit over the years. I first heard of them when they presented "Rail City Special" on Sunday evenings on an FM station in Evanston. They also operated a bunch of fantrips.
SD70DudeIt may also interest the OP to know that the 20th Century Railroad Club's Facebook page still exists and was last updated only two days ago. Not quite dead yet.
Thats true but also kind of a memorial more than a functioning page of an operating club. Note lack of fantrips or get togethers listed. They used to meet once a month. I suspect the pandemic led to a lack of funds and interest just drifted away.
croteaudd When I was a kid in Southern California many, many years ago, a highlight was seeing the sugar beet train come through. The Southern Pacific SD7’s and SD9’s was scattered in the train, in three or four places! Today, the sugar beet trains are no more! I pass sugar beet trucks often on the highways.
When I was a kid in Southern California many, many years ago, a highlight was seeing the sugar beet train come through. The Southern Pacific SD7’s and SD9’s was scattered in the train, in three or four places!
In the context of railroads losing business, you stated the above. In that case, what was the reason for the S.P. losing the sugar beat traffic?
It sounds like you are saying the the beet traffic went to trucks. If so, why was trucking preferred over rail?
Euclid croteaudd When I was a kid in Southern California many, many years ago, a highlight was seeing the sugar beet train come through. The Southern Pacific SD7’s and SD9’s was scattered in the train, in three or four places! Today, the sugar beet trains are no more! I pass sugar beet trucks often on the highways. In the context of railroads losing business, you stated the above. In that case, what was the reason for the S.P. losing the sugar beat traffic? It sounds like you are saying the the beet traffic went to trucks. If so, why was trucking preferred over rail?
Service and/or price.
UlrichIt sounds like you are saying the the beet traffic went to trucks. If so, why was trucking preferred over rail?
The flexibility of trucks is also a factor. Rail traffic is bound by where the rails go. Not so much truck traffic.
As I recall, many of the dedicated beet cars are/were aging out. The shippers may not have wanted to go to the expense of building new cars, and we all know the railroads aren't buying many cars these days.
croteauddDoes all the above explain the use of the word unfortunate?
No, it doesn't in the least. I have no idea what logic you used to reach your conclusions about me being delighted and at this point, I don't even want to ask.
There was/still is an Illini Railroad Club, now just at UIUC but back in the 60s, it owned several passenger cars and ran excusions, often on the old CB&Q. Key words are was and old Times change.
PS: Lots of rail groups on FB, such as Passenger Train Enthusiasts.
Our Club has always been about the trips. There has been a dramatic change in the railroad industry toward rail fans. The type of fun activities we did in the past are no longer available such as charters and private cars.
We have experienced a drastic reduction in membership. As our remaining membership got older, many of our members were no longer able to volunteer in support of Club ctivities. The lack of volunteers made the Club increasingly dependent on an outside management company whose fees are rising. Inflation has accelerated the ever-rising costs of liability insurance to run the trips and hold meetings. Other expenses such as phone, internet fees, printing, tax preparation and other expenses add to the cost of operating a club for fewer and fewer members. When expenses exceed income, it becomes impossible to remain in operation.
This decision has not been an easy one for the board. Several of us are long term members of the club and wish the club could continue, but see the inevitable is finally here. We want to thank all of you for your support of the 20th Century over the years. It is remarkable for a club to have lasted into our 52nd year. We hope to see many of you as you continue your railfanning hobby.
Sincerely,
The Twentieth Century Board of Directors"
The name for the club likely was inspired by the "20th Century Limited" passenger train that once passed right by their offices in Chicago, which hosted the "Skybox for Railfans". Their web site archive extends back to 1997 at least - early days.
- Ed Kyle
Ed KyleThere has been a dramatic change in the railroad industry toward rail fans.
All too true - the days of calling up the railroad and asking them to pull a charter trip from here to there are pretty well gone, not to mention virtually impossible on some modern day railroads.
Euclid:
As I am not employed by a railroad, I have NO authoritative answers to your questions, HOWEVER, I do have opinions that are believed to be the case. Those opinions are reference the beet trains that ran yesteryear from Imperial County in Southern California to the Central California processing plant(s).
As the screws of the economy were tightening, both sugar beet shippers and the railroad started taking a closer look at the costs involved, both seen and unseen. Since beets are seasonal, rollingstock cost the railroad even though it was unused in the off season. Shipments by rail were in unit trains, so the rollingstock sat basically idle while the rest of the train was unloaded. A group of trucks, on the other hand, could make several roundtrips in the time one train could do one roundtrip cycle. Thus, idle equipment has an unseen time value of money reality that must be accounted for.
Either the beat shippers figured out trucks would be cheaper (even with paying truck drivers) or the railroad figured out the beet trains were costing them money instead of making them money. For the novice, math seems simple. But for management that is expected to consider everything, the cost of equipment sitting idle is figured into their thinking, even the cost of leasing new replacement equipment is. When everything was added up, sugar beet trains apparently lost out -- in one way or another. Anyway, that is my opinion, just an opinion.
A comparable situation may have affected the 20th Century Club. The leadership of the Club did not fool themselves and seemed to have made a decisive decision.
Radical forum number changes have been seen. It has to be wondered what they could mean …
Ed KyleThe lack of volunteers
I see that locally here in Texas. The lack of volunteers to run a Homeowners Association (HOA). The deal with an HOA is though if you cannot get enough volunteers the HOA gets a court appointed TRUSTEE until you get the volunteers. So ultimately there is a financial motivation among homeowners in the HOA for someone to step forwards. Seems like people just do not want to volunteer time to the community unless they get something directly out of it or they can use the volunteer activity on their resume. Which seems to be the sad direction society is moving towards. Maybe as we move into AI and ML people might have more freetime and disposable income? We'll see.
tree68All too true - the days of calling up the railroad and asking them to pull a charter trip from here to there are pretty well gone, not to mention virtually impossible on some modern day railroads.
They started to rely more and more on Amtrak ride alongs and Bus Charters towards the end. the way their trip model seemed to work was that one or two volunteers would volunteer to put a trip package together and then submit it to the club board to review and then if approved they would proceed with it and it would become an official trip and I think they would ask for volunteers to staff if they needed additional staffing.
I think they could have continued with the Amtrak / Bus charter model but the issue seemed to be nobody wanted to take on a project like that with the volunteer model. I suspect from reading this thread they attempted to hire event management firms to do trip and event planning but could not make the numbers work. I planned a lot of family reunions myself and with hotel rate negotiation, bus charter planning, selecting a popular date, etc. Time consumming and you also need a plan B in some cases in the area of weather.
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