https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/rail-labor-ordered-to-negotiate-crew-size/
This is a fascinating story, from what I think is an informed and intelligent author.
Be sure to read it all the way through. A great many details in it deserve followup research.
It looks like the beginning of the end for conductors. My guess is that the elimination of positions will be slow, through contract negotiations on the affected lines and then through attrition.
With a one person crew, is it safe to leave a running, unattended locomotive if there is a broken knuckle or parted air hose?
I beleive that the proposed solution is to have "ground conductors" in surface road vehicles that will respond to train issues in their territories.
In other words, a broken knuckle will have to wait until a conductor can get to the train. If they are on the other side of the territory, it might take a bit.
At least that's what I am reading.
Paul F
charlie hebdoIt looks like the beginning of the end for conductors.
I would agree, at least on your run-of-the-mill through trains. With PTC and the ability to distribute directives electronically, as well as the electronic tracking of cars, the functions served by the conductor are slowly disappearing.
Amtrak has essentially been running one person crews for years - there's only one person in the cab. Yes, there is a conductor (or several) on the train, but a large part of that job is customer service, not train operations.
I would suppose that if extra hands are needed on a given train, that eventually "helpers" (utility workers) would become part of the crew - and they'd likely be a step below brakeman, so even cheaper to have around.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
ClassAI beleive that the proposed solution is to have "ground conductors" in surface road vehicles that will respond to train issues in their territories. In other words, a broken knuckle will have to wait until a conductor can get to the train. If they are on the other side of the territory, it might take a bit. At least that's what I am reading. Paul F
And Pink Elephants will fly to the rescue.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
This sets up the beginnings of negotiations. I don't believe it will be able to be added to the current contract negotiations, nor do I think it would be added if it could. The current political climate is not conducive to the interests of large business. I look for this to go through the entire proccesses outlined in the Railway Labor Act. That is that it will ultimately lead to a strike, a cooling off period and a Presidential Emergency Board. The PEB's recommandations are not binding, however then Congress can vote to impose a contract.
I've heard and read different opinions. One that they can only impose the recommandations of the PEB, or that they can impose what they want. Either way, both sides are going to hope that control of the White House and/or Congress is held by the party most favorable to them when it reaches that point.
Although that doesn't always mean the party mostly allied with either side will deliver the outcome the two sides want.
Jeff
Jeff: One point that caught my attention was legacy contracts with lines the UP bought, like the CNW. Does that impact you?
charlie hebdo Jeff: One point that caught my attention was legacy contracts with lines the UP bought, like the CNW. Does that impact you?
Yes, I work former CNW territory. I can't imagine that the entire UP won't be drawn into one man negotiations. I'm not sure why former CNW, or the other exempted lines, are exempt from the arbitration award. The only guess is in the wording of the 1988 award that CNW won to go to conductor only crews. Possibly some kind of crew consist contract is in place on those other portions of what is now UP.
All brakemen/switchmen helper jobs on former CNW territories are where the company deems the extra person necessary due to the job's work load. Other parts of the UP the brakeman/switchman helper is required by contract for locals, yard jobs, and trains that do a certain number of work events. Really locals in all but name.
Who is going to build and test this train before departure? PSR got rid of the inspectors and yard crews. 'Cause why have a yard crew do that work when you can just make the outbound road crew do it?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann Who is going to build and test this train before departure? PSR got rid of the inspectors and yard crews. 'Cause why have a yard crew do that work when you can just make the outbound road crew do it?
I also heard/hear Road Foreman positions have been eliminated on some roads.. Jeff, Zug, SD70, SFbrkmn, etc.. Can you confirm this at your road? How are check rides done now?
Our Road Foremans, called Managers of Operating Practices, have been reduced in numbers. Each large terminal has one, where there used to be 3 or 4 depending on number of engineers based there.
We no longer get check rides as such. They will download and review the event recorder and then contact the employee to sign there own license with the initials of AME for annual monitored event and the date it was done.
I don't know if that qualifies for my check ride for my license renewal next spring. If not, they have been using the simulator for certification rides. On a territory that some aren't qualified on, not even territories we run, territories that aren't even in the state of Iowa. One engineer had a simulator malfunction and for awhile they held him out of service for failing the ride. It was cleared up within a couple days.
Not to worry for the officers affected. Some went into other management functions and they created a new place where many went to staff. The Operating Practices Command Center. They call when there's been a UDE, especially if it involves a break in two. They can also be contacted if one has a question on something.
The Road Foremen of Engines on CSX after EHH entered the scene were told they could exercise their seniority, retire or look for other employment as the position was being eliminated. What CSX has been doing for supervision of Engineers since, I have no idea.
zugmannWho is going to build and test this train before departure? PSR got rid of the inspectors and yard crews. 'Cause why have a yard crew do that work when you can just make the outbound road crew do it?
I'd have the crew of the contractor running the IM terminal do it. No reason not to.
greyhoundsI'd have the crew of the contractor running the IM terminal do it. No reason not to.
Man, all kinds of crews around that yard. Someone has a big checkbook.
zugmann greyhounds I'd have the crew of the contractor running the IM terminal do it. No reason not to. Man, all kinds of crews around that yard. Someone has a big checkbook.
greyhounds I'd have the crew of the contractor running the IM terminal do it. No reason not to.
Different check book for different accounts - financial legerdemain.
What's funny is we had one-man remote crews. Then the whole mindset changed and they replaced them with 2-person local crews that also do yard work, but also do industry work, if there's time, and there isn't always, but hey - it's the thought that counts!
zugmann What's funny is we had one-man remote crews. Then the whole mindset changed and they replaced them with 2-person local crews that also do yard work, but also do industry work, if there's time, and there isn't always, but hey - it's the thought that counts!
When I worked remotes as a trainman all of our remote jobs were two person. As an engineer I infrequently went to the terminal where I worked the remotes. One day my conductor, who bounced between that terminal and the one he currently (mine too) worked out of, told me there were a couple of remote jobs that were one man. They still have the one man jobs. They are ones that do industry work on industrial leads.
I thought by doing that, the UTU (now SMART-TD), was giving the railroads ammunition in the future battles for one person crews. I suppose since the UTU held the contracts for conductors and remotes and their crew consist agreements only cover trainmen, that they didn't look at the missing engineer as being a one person crew.
The only one-person yard crews we have are on beltpack hump jobs. Take the engine, pull a track out, shove it up the hill and start pulling pins (your point is protected by an exclusive occupancy zone or the yardmaster watching with a camera).
We do have some conductor-only yard crews on transfers or rovers (rescuing road crews who ran out of time), but they always have an engineer.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD60MAC9500 zugmann Who is going to build and test this train before departure? PSR got rid of the inspectors and yard crews. 'Cause why have a yard crew do that work when you can just make the outbound road crew do it? I also heard/hear Road Foreman positions have been eliminated on some roads.. Jeff, Zug, SD70, SFbrkmn, etc.. Can you confirm this at your road? How are check rides done now?
CN calls them Engine Service Officers, ESO for short. Not sure why, but we also call diesel shops Locomotive Reliability Centres (LRC).
I hired on well after CN had been Hunterized, so I have no idea how many there were before. These days they seem to be about as numerous as assistant superintendents.
The rules must be different in Canada, I've been qualified for years and have never had a single check ride. If they use downloads I must have passed mine, they've never told me about any results.
Aside from my qualifying run, the only official contact I've had with ESOs are a couple conversations about train handling (I like power braking more than they do, as it works quite well in certain places on some trains) and after one of my trains had an incident farther down the line, which had nothing to do with me, they just wanted to know if I had noticed anything unusual.
BaltACD The Road Foremen of Engines on CSX after EHH entered the scene were told they could exercise their seniority, retire or look for other employment as the position was being eliminated. What CSX has been doing for supervision of Engineers since, I have no idea.
CSX has Road Forman again. They have been back for awhile.
An "expensive model collector"
SD70DudeThe only one-person yard crews we have are on beltpack hump jobs. Take the engine, pull a track out, shove it up the hill and start pulling pins (your point is protected by an exclusive occupancy zone or the yardmaster watching with a camera). We do have some conductor-only yard crews on transfers or rovers (rescuing road crews who ran out of time), but they always have an engineer.
When I was working on CSX One Man remote crews were not allowed on the Main Track. Management pushed for all yard crews to become One Man Remotes, then they wondered why production decreased.
When remotes first started in our one terminal there was a letter from the FRA on how they could be used. There were 7 or 8 bullet points. One was that they couldn't be operated outside of yard limits. Another was that they couldn't be operated by an operator riding the side of a car.
It was only about a week and a second letter was out from the FRA. The prohibition about operating while riding a car was gone. There was one or two others that also had been removed, but the prohibition mentioned was the big one.
At this terminal, the main track is CTC. There are no yard limits. There is a small yard north of the main yard and one industry about 3 miles further north of said small yard. RCLs run on the main track on signal indication to/from both points, not Track and Time.
On CN the beltpacks can go anywhere a regular yard crew can, up to 25 miles outside the terminal limit (this is a contractual limit, not a regulatory one). Such use is usually confined to switching industries.
Yard moves routinely operate on the main track between different yards within a terminal. Beltpack yard jobs can get signals or authorities just like a train, a written authority will simply be addressed to the engine instead of the train number.
Rules which require the engineer to acknowledge something are modified to allow for two beltpack operators or "the employee in control of the movement".
SD70Dude Rules which require the engineer to acknowledge something are modified to allow for two beltpack operators or "the employee in control of the movement".
It's amazing how rules (operating, air brake and train handling) and practices get changed to accomodate new technology.
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