This was an item on the TRAINS Newswire of this date 11/25/2020 FTA:"...Minister of Transport Marc Garneau announced the changes on Wednesday, calling the rules “a historic improvement over the existing framework” and saying they “incorporate modern and evidence-based fatigue management principles to a whole sector of the transportation industry.” The new rules place a 12-hour limit on a single work shift (the previous limit had been 16 hours), and institute limits of 60 hours in a seven-day period, 192 hours in a 28-day period, and 2,500 hours per year. Previoulsy, there had been no weekly, monthly, or annual limits. The rules also require 12 hours rest for workers at home and 10 hours away from home. A full list of the changes is available here. Canadian railroads must complete fatigue management plans within 12 months and implement their fitness for duty provisions within 24 months.
From the enclosed linked site @https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2020/11/updated-workrest-rules-for-railway-operating-employees.html
Realize that this 'rulemaking' is set to be implemented in a time frame of 24 months,but the Canadian Rairoads HAVE to have a 'fatigue plan' in place in 12 months.
In 1974, I was caught ip in the emergency legislation that cut US highway speeds back to the 'double nickle' [55,mph]. Implementation was to say the least, a mess.
All the little things that have to happen; were delayed and seemly uncoordinated, at first. Not the least of which, was the whole package of effects on the commercial driving community (houirs of service vs miles that could be run= draconian pay cuts for drivers).
Which brings me to the point: I realize that Transport Canada is the safety, and regulatory body in Canada. My guess, is that the first thing that will happen are the rail unions are going to demand some sort of upgraded pay compensation, for the members whose income would seem to be 'cut' by these 'new' safety rules, and hours of service pay decreases(?).
Back when there was a large bruhaha in this country about 'fatigue' for engine crews; (late 1990's(?). I kicked up quite a 'stir'. I recall, that at one point, there was a discussion about allowing engine crews to have designated 'naps'; along with all sorts of rules governing haw that would eb accomplished...
The question seems to be:".. is this fatigue related action(s?) going to drift south of the Borders to the US? Or will it just be one of those things; that at the time, sounded good to the 'suits'; or will it just disapear into that bin of dumb ideas?.."
The railways are probably going to spend much of the next two years fighting this, just as they have already.
There are a number of articles and addendums in our agreements which contain clauses requiring that they will be re-negotiated in the event of the HOS regulations being changed. That process will take years.
I wonder when the full document will be released, this is just a summary.
Also, the current 16 hour per shift clause only applies to worktrains, all other crews can work a maximum of 12 hours per shift. But if you go off duty after having worked 10 hours or less you can start another shift immediately, in this situation you can work up to 18 hours straight.
Currently, mandatory rest (8 hours at home, 6 hours anywhere else) only applies after you go off duty after having been on duty for more than 10 hours.
As for naps, sleeping while on duty is prohibited and is considered a dismissable offence. But everyone does it while stopped in sidings, and I consider that to be the safest course of action, on par with a trucker pulling over at a rest stop.
CN had a napping pilot project around that time, until Hunter Harrison killed it and sent the trainmasters out to sneak onto stopped trains and try and catch people napping.
With inward facing cameras now quite common, I wonder how long it will be before they start firing people for napping?
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70DudeThe railways are probably going to spend much of the next two years fighting this, just as they have already. There are a number of articles and addendums in our agreements which contain clauses requiring that they will be re-negotiated in the event of the HOS regulations being changed. That process will take years. I wonder when the full document will be released, this is just a summary. Also, the current 16 hour per shift clause only applies to worktrains, all other crews can work a maximum of 12 hours per shift. But if you go off duty after having worked 10 hours or less you can start another shift immediately, in this situation you can work up to 18 hours straight. Currently, mandatory rest (8 hours at home, 6 hours anywhere else) only applies after you go off duty after having been on duty for more than 10 hours. As for naps, sleeping while on duty is prohibited and is considered a dismissable offence. But everyone does it while stopped in sidings, and I consider that to be the safest course of action, on par with a trucker pulling over at a rest stop. CN had a napping pilot project around that time, until Hunter Harrison killed it and sent the trainmasters out to sneak onto stopped trains and try and catch people napping. With inward facing cameras now quite common, I wonder how long it will be before they start firing people for napping?
The US HOS laws were changed about a decade ago. 10 hours UNDISTURBED rest - either end; personnel cannot be called during the 10 hour rest period. After getting a call to work the normal allowed reporting time is 2 hours, so by HOS requirements they will have been Off Duty for 12 hours.
Crews can be given a 4 hour 'respite'; if they are instructed when to report back on duty after the 4 hours rest - they can then work the remainder of the allowed 12 hours they didn't use at the time they first registered off.
There are also restrictions concerning work hours during a week and a month. There is also a restriction on accumulated 'Limbo Time', time personnel are 'on pay' but 'off duty' as the are awaiting/traveling to their final terminal account going HOS on line of road.
CSX also had allowed napping within defined guidelines untill EHH ended the practice.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
samfp1943 ... The question seems to be:".. is this fatigue related action(s?) going to drift south of the Borders to the US? Or will it just be one of those things; that at the time, sounded good to the 'suits'; or will it just disapear into that bin of dumb ideas?.."
US HOS regulations were changed about a decade ago - from reading the Newswire, it sounds like US HOS procedures have drifted North.
BaltACDThe US HOS laws were changed about a decade ago. 10 hours UNDISTURBED rest - either end; personnel cannot be called during the 10 hour rest period. After getting a call to work the normal allowed reporting time is 2 hours, so by HOS requirements they will have been Off Duty for 12 hours.
can also make you show up on your 10 hour mark - which I thought was always stupid. If you are showing up AT your 10 hour mark, then your rest was def'n disturbed.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Call times vary and are covered by agreements. At our home terminal we went to a 2 hour call within the last year. Before and at our away terminals, it's still 90 minute call. Terminals in metro areas have had 2 and sometimes 3 hour calls.
The working provision restrictions of the HOS change only apply to when you perform covered service. Deadheads and rules or other classes aren't covered service. The classroom tours of duty don't even give one 10 hours of undesturbed rest, you can be called to return at the end of 10 hours off. (Our agreements provided for 10 hours before the law changed.) With that, one could work everyday of the year under the law.
IMO, the changes in US law did about as much harm as it did good. Imposed by Government, it's a one size fits all situations. That doesn't always work. For example, if I work 6 consecutive covered service starts (consecutive is not having 24 hours off between tours of duty) I must have 48 hours off. If I tie up at 2pm on Monday, it means I can go to work after 2pm on Wednesday. No problem there. However if I tied up at 2am on Monday, I can be called at 2am Wednesday. Chances are had I not been forced off, I may have gone to work at a better time on Tuesday. This is a case where I'm more likely to be going to work tired because of the law's requirement.
Jeff
All these HOS laws miss the point.
It's not about how much rest you get - it's about the predictability of when you work.
jeffhergert Call times vary and are covered by agreements. At our home terminal we went to a 2 hour call within the last year. Before and at our away terminals, it's still 90 minute call. Terminals in metro areas have had 2 and sometimes 3 hour calls. The working provision restrictions of the HOS change only apply to when you perform covered service. Deadheads and rules or other classes aren't covered service. The classroom tours of duty don't even give one 10 hours of undesturbed rest, you can be called to return at the end of 10 hours off. (Our agreements provided for 10 hours before the law changed.) With that, one could work everyday of the year under the law. IMO, the changes in US law did about as much harm as it did good. Imposed by Government, it's a one size fits all situations. That doesn't always work. For example, if I work 6 consecutive covered service starts (consecutive is not having 24 hours off between tours of duty) I must have 48 hours off. If I tie up at 2pm on Monday, it means I can go to work after 2pm on Wednesday. No problem there. However if I tied up at 2am on Monday, I can be called at 2am Wednesday. Chances are had I not been forced off, I may have gone to work at a better time on Tuesday. This is a case where I'm more likely to be going to work tired because of the law's requirement. Jeff
On CSX they were considered covered service. Individuals required to attend a company Investigation was required to have HOS rest before attending the Investigation and had to be HOS rested before accepting a call after the investigation. CSX standardized 2 hours as the normal call notification, both home and away except for certain home terminal 'ID' (Inter-divisional) runs which get a 3 hour call notificaion. It was permissible to deadhead crews from AFHT to home without them have been rested at AFHT. Crews could not be deadheaded from the home terminals without being fully rested.
I did a quick & dirty calculation on the most recent changes in US HOS laws with the weekly and monthly work restrictions - it amounted to a 23% reduction in earnings POTENTIAL (not actual earnings).
When I was working, I had numerous crews ask if I could have their 'On Duty' time (call) changed so that they would not be on the wrong side (to them) of the 6 consecutive covered services without 24 hours between services.
HOS mandated time off will always have a effect on earnings potential for employees covered by HOS - T&E, Dispatchers, Train Order Operators as well as Signals. I have yet to come across a operating department railroad employee that got into their craft because of the time off - they came to the railroad to earn money.
I agree the HOS rest and employee 'life' rest can be at a distinctly different; people aren't sleeping ALL the time that they are off duty. The body has its own sleep/wake cycles that work independent of how the HOS decrees that it should work.
BaltACDHOS mandated time off will always have a effect on earnings potential for employees covered by HOS - T&E, Dispatchers, Train Order Operators as well as Signals. I have yet to come across a operating department railroad employee that got into their craft because of the time off - they came to the railroad to earn money.
I like money, but I also like having my rest days. So no way do I want to go back to the 7 day a week crap I started out with.
zugmann All these HOS laws miss the point. It's not about how much rest you get - it's about the predictability of when you work.
I agree.
We are starting to move toward call windows, where you are only on call for half the time instead of 24/7. But in their current form they leave much to be desired.
The windows are too long (10 or 12 hours), and many do not have assigned days off. And you can only take 14 hours rest when going off duty, instead of the 24 that other unassigned employees can.
The windows have guaranteed incomes, but the guarantee is reduced each time you take more than 10 hours rest.
The company approached us (union) with call windows and possible rest days for pool service between Chicago and the OMC. The way it's being proposed make some of us dubious. The way our terminal's local (one of three affected) was invited to attend the initial meeting makes me think we are going to get the short stick.
We have to be rested for classes, etc too. But the FRA allows them to not count that has performing covered service. Although the way I read the original law, anytime you were paid for working, it was to be counted towards HOS.
If we went back to working 7 days a week that wouldn't bother me. With time off before and after and during a deadhead usually enough to give 24 hours off between duty tours one could work 7 days a week now. I just don't want to ever go back to being rested in 8 hours with them being able to call to be back at the 8 hr mark. We were able to get 10 undisturbed by agreement before the law required it.
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