Trains.com

Is it selfish to want railway companies to do heritage units?

2016 views
20 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2020
  • 290 posts
Is it selfish to want railway companies to do heritage units?
Posted by Engi1487 on Sunday, July 19, 2020 4:34 PM

 I understand that for many railfans, railway enthusiasts and those interested in trains and rail transport in general, having railways tribute former roads that merged or trackage systems where taken over by said road are a popular thing. Its neat to see former roads of the past with their past liverys and even improved liverys on model diesel locomotive bodies. Norfolk Southern has the most standing in at 20. My favourite is the PRR Tuscan Red and Southern white and green ones.

 However there seems to be questions or gripes as to why some major railways such as BNSF, CSX and Canadian National (cant think of any other major railways) dont consider doing their own heriage unit programs by painting locomotives in their roaster in heritage schemes to make new ones, other then locos that are unpainted on their systems.

 However does it seem selfish to want railways to undertake such massive repaint projects? I mean their main concern is moving their freight manifests, keeping on time, maintaining their trackage and infanstructure, earning their pay etc. This is all going to take alot of revanue to do and to pay off. Also is it worth it to stop the railfans from complaing as to why they havent done heritage units like other railroads.

I mean they do have to put up and deal with the shenanigans that railfans and foamers get themelves into. Also what benifits would heriage units bring to these railways? I do hope in a sense, as CPR had some SD70ACus, which where rebuilt from SD70ACes painted in the former Maroon, grey with yellow lining livery whiched I liked, so prehaps other roads will follow in time.

I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions as this has been o my mind.


  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, July 19, 2020 4:49 PM

I don't think it's selfish for railfans to want to see "Heritage" units, we all have our favorites that eventually became part of todays "Big Seven" and would like to see them memorialized in some way.

However, it's foolish and childish to whine and pout when railroads DON'T choose to do any heritage units.  We have to remember railroads are in the business of moving stuff from Point A to Point B in the most efficient and profitable manner possible.  They're not in the railfan entertainment business.  

Although it would be nice if they threw the best friends they've got a bone or two every once in a while, know what I mean?   

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, July 19, 2020 5:02 PM

Not at all selfish if you offer to cover the entire cost (plus some profit) of printing the engine in your choice of colors. Put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate your unselfish nature.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 2,505 posts
Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, July 19, 2020 5:32 PM

BNSF all ready have many heritage units.  They have ex ATSF units in freight bonnet blue and yellow and BN Grinstone green and black, some with the white or tiger orange face cabs.

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • 290 posts
Posted by Engi1487 on Sunday, July 19, 2020 5:54 PM

caldreamer

BNSF all ready have many heritage units.  They have ex ATSF units in freight bonnet blue and yellow and BN Grinstone green and black, some with the white or tiger orange face cabs.

 



Thanks for mentioning this, but I am wondering about heritage units likes these here. Take a look.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, July 19, 2020 6:05 PM

I would opine that a lot would depend on the additional cost of painting such a unit over "normal."  

Units get overhauled and repainted all the time.  If the time and material to paint a loco in a "heritage" scheme is not significantly more that the regular paint, why not?  As has been said, we're their biggest fans and appreciate their throwing us a bone occasionally.

If the cost is significantly higher, a forward thinking railroad might solicit the help of a fan group for a given railroad to help cover the additional cost.

Personally, I prefer the "as built" heritage schemes over UP's concept.  

And here's an off the wall idea - painting a unit to match a well-known model railroad.  The Gorre & Daphetid was all steam, but imagine...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Sunday, July 19, 2020 6:09 PM

It was mentioned before that trademark protection may also be a factor.

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • 290 posts
Posted by Engi1487 on Sunday, July 19, 2020 9:08 PM

tree68

And here's an off the wall idea - painting a unit to match a well-known model railroad.  The Gorre & Daphetid was all steam, but imagine...

 



Hi Tree68,

Thanks for your reply, and now that you mention painting a unit in a well known model railroad livery, I want to do that. I made a a voting poll on the Gorre & Daphetid facebook page, asking them to choose between three ideas for a diesel to be painted as a G&D Heritage unit in HO scale

  • HO Scale Trains SD40T-2 Rio Grande details undecorated
  • HO Scale Trains SD40T-2 Cotton Belt/Southern Pacific details undecorated
  • A Southern Pacific Dash 9 undecorated
  • HO Broadway Limited or Kato Southern Pacific AC6000
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Winnipeg, Mb
  • 628 posts
Posted by traisessive1 on Sunday, July 19, 2020 10:06 PM

If railroads did heritage units, it would likely mean they'd have to wash them. And washing engines is not done anymore, so that's a reason. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • 599 posts
Posted by azrail on Sunday, July 19, 2020 10:23 PM

Which is why BNSF has a bunch of covered hoppers using the predecessor railroad logos.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, July 20, 2020 12:31 AM
 

tree68

Personally, I prefer the "as built" heritage schemes over UP's concept.  

I hope UP repaints their HU's back into armour yellow soon. Obnoxious ugly schemes to me and a waste of paint. Speaking of UP.. As lovely as our flag is. UP should go back to spelling out Union Pacific on the long hood. Get rid of the CNW style zig zag on the gray border, drop the wings on the nose, and keep the large shield..

UP 9344 on double stack train

 
 
 
 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 20, 2020 7:53 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
tree68

 

I hope UP repaints their HU's back into armour yellow soon. Obnoxious ugly schemes to me and a waste of paint. 

 
 
 
 
 
 

Why waste even more paint? PSR doesn't seem to allow washing stuff - much less painting stuff. 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • 100 posts
Posted by PennsyBoomer on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:32 AM

Taken on the grand scale of politics and other human events, I would hardly describe fascination or interest in heritage locomotive paint jobs as selfish. Rather a benign interest, actually. >

Arguably there is a PR value or trademark infringement consideration (noted before) to NS and UP's activities in this regard. And sure, it would be nice to see a Frisco coonskin color scheme, the NP passenger colors revived, B&O & etc. I guess one should just be content units are not all painted battleship gray.>

I second the comment that UP's interpretation of heritage schemes is less favorable than NS's (hard to beat the Reading Lines), but they are still a nice variation and incorporate a number of insignia to good advantage. Some of the recent specialty topic schemes seem ostentatious and annoying, IMO. 

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,139 posts
Posted by Gramp on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 4:18 AM

I think UP's restoration of the Big Boy for the railroad's 150th anniversary answers the question. In a word, spirit. 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 7:15 AM

The more we know and remember the past. truthfully, without distortions, the better prepaired we are for the future.  Heritage-painted locomotives are a great idea.  Benefit everyone.

And I also love Tuscan Red with five gold pin-stripes.  Hurray for Bennet Levin!

Still, glad the K4s were on the points during my Fort Monmouth days! (Summer 1951 and Oct-Dec. 1954)

And I also loved the Southern's creamy-white-and-green, but the green-and-gold PS4s were even better/

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Lebanon Co., Pennsylvania
  • 225 posts
Posted by steve-in-kville on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 7:30 AM
Honestly, the special paints mean more to me than the heritage units. Honoring our first responders, the military, 9/11 and so on. That shows class and gratitude in my book. (the heritage units are still cool, though)

Regards - Steve

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:19 AM

The various Heritage units were never expected by me but are appreciated by me because they remind me of things past and things that I never saw.  Metra's own Heritage fleet is nice but I will always think that 405 (MILW) looks like it belongs on South Shore.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:01 AM

What real benefit to the railroads is there to Heritage Tributes? Railfans,  etc. abound on here,  but not in the overall population.

That said,  since Metra has a few tribute engines,  I'd like one in CNW stagecoach yellow with dark green trim and black lettering. Ditto with the old P-S coaches. 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:22 AM

charlie hebdo
That said,  since Metra has a few tribute engines,  I'd like one in CNW stagecoach yellow with dark green trim and black lettering. Ditto with the old P-S coaches. 

That'd be nice, that old CNW paint scheme was a classic one!

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:58 PM

charlie hebdo

What real benefit to the railroads is there to Heritage Tributes? Railfans,  etc. abound on here,  but not in the overall population.

That said,  since Metra has a few tribute engines,  I'd like one in CNW stagecoach yellow with dark green trim and black lettering. Ditto with the old P-S coaches. 

Heritage Tributes help the RR maintain rights to previous Logos and names of merged and purchased RRs.

Dunno about the heritage of Metra, but CNW is owned by UP... and UP might not like Metra using a UP owned paint scheme.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:05 PM

Semper Vaporo

 

 
charlie hebdo

What real benefit to the railroads is there to Heritage Tributes? Railfans,  etc. abound on here,  but not in the overall population.

That said,  since Metra has a few tribute engines,  I'd like one in CNW stagecoach yellow with dark green trim and black lettering. Ditto with the old P-S coaches. 

 

 

Heritage Tributes help the RR maintain rights to previous Logos and names of merged and purchased RRs.

Dunno about the heritage of Metra, but CNW is owned by UP... and UP might not like Metra using a UP owned paint scheme.

 

Trademarked logos are a big thing with UP,  though a minor source of revenue,  so I  don't see how spending money on painting (but not cleaning)  Heritage units helps bottom line.  

UP is playing hardball now with Metra,  no longer wanting to operate  trains,  at least not at the current contracted rate, when it expires. 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy