M636C I spent some time researching the loss of the USS Lexington during the battle. Those who know the ship realise it was designed as a battleship (or perhaps a battlecruiser). It was hit by the largest Japanese torpedo which barely affected it, except that the propulsion switchgear flashed over. That was repaired but leaking aviation gasoline fumes reached a motor generator room and exploded, damaging the ship beyond recovery..
I spent some time researching the loss of the USS Lexington during the battle. Those who know the ship realise it was designed as a battleship (or perhaps a battlecruiser). It was hit by the largest Japanese torpedo which barely affected it, except that the propulsion switchgear flashed over. That was repaired but leaking aviation gasoline fumes reached a motor generator room and exploded, damaging the ship beyond recovery..
Which is why USN standard operating procedure for fueling airplanes was changed after Coral Sea to include draining the fueling hoses and purging them with CO2. Hanger decks on USN carriers typically had multiple openings and were well provisioned with multiple water sources for fire fighting.
The IJN carriers typically had closed hangar decks and the water source for fire fighting was vulnerable to a single point of failure. During the battle of Midway, the IJN carriers had attack planes armed and fueled in the hanger decks, and little attention was paid to the refueling hoses. The upshot was that a bomb hitting the hanger decks any time that morning would have likely started uncontrollable fires as what happened in the successful dive bomber attacks in the late morning.
The book "Shattered Sword" has a nice review of the Battle of Midway with emphasis on what was going on in the IJN. One detail new to me was that ~4 USN aviators were captured by the IJN after bailing out, tortured for information and executed by tying weights to their legs and being thrown overboard.
As for the turbo-electric drives, the "General Electric Review" and "The Electric Journal" (Westinghouse) had coverage of the electric drives of the New Mexico class of battleships in their 1920 issues (available for downloading from Google Books or the Internet Archive).
Flintlock- I think you are right about not treating part of the fleet as expendable, but I can't help but think that a major event was necessary to bring the country together. The sinking of the Reuben James in October of 1941 didn't do it, neither did the sinking of the Panay in 1937. It would make a good historical fiction novel if say, there was a plot to hide any knowledge of an attack.
I don't think anyone in the US had knowledge of specific details (exactly where, exactly when) of the attack, but the was no uncertainty on Dec 3rd that war was only a few days away. On Dec 4th, an order was sent to signal intelligence posts on Guam and the Philpines to destroy all cryptographic equipment.
The FDR administration was presumably trying to hold off war with Japan to allow the US to concentrate on Europe. The US cutting off scrap metal sales and other supplies was a natural response to Japan's hostile activities in the area, e.g. the "rape of Nanking". On the other side of the Atlantic, Germany was hoping that Japan would declare war on Russia as part of the deal of Germany declaring war on the US.
Going back to WW1, a deal sweetener for Japan joining the Allied cause was granting a mandate to Japan for the German colonies in the Pacific, which were then used as bases by Japan for WW2.
A potential problem for the conspiracy theorists: Professor Graff at Columbia talked firsthand with perhaps the only person in the room with FDR when he received the first report of Pearl Harbor. FDR's reaction, which I think would be difficult to fake with little reason to fake, was to put his head down in his hands and exclaim something like "I should have seen this coming".
That rings true with the 'comedy of errors' scenario regarding the radar operation and the B-17s, and also with the earlier reports that something was brewing with Japanese reaction to the American embargoes.
I don't remember when we officially abandoned the 'gentlemen don't read other people's mail' approach to coded-communication intercepts, but when we started we certainly did it well. The careful misinformation campaign that led to the identification of Midway as an attack point is a good example.
Before Amelia Earhart embarked on her flight, FDR apparently told her to keep her eyes open when she passed the former German islands as there was knowledge that Japan was fortifying the islands in violation of the treaty that gave them control over the islands. But, that's the subject of an entire new thread.
Erik_MagThe book "Shattered Sword" has a nice review of the Battle of Midway with emphasis on what was going on in the IJN. One detail new to me was that ~4 USN aviators were captured by the IJN after bailing out, tortured for information and executed by tying weights to their legs and being thrown overboard.
That's disgusting.
I don't doubt it happened, the Japanese, well some of them, were capable of anything, but I wonder where the author of "Shattered Sword" got the information from. What witnesses were willing to talk about it? I'm not questioning the truth of the statement but I AM curious as to the source.
During briefings prior to missions over Japan B-29 crews were advised to stick with the airplane as long as possible if it was damaged and head for the sea. Two reasons, one, maybe they'd be picked up by an American sub if they had to bailout or ditch, but if that wasn't the case it was preferable to be captured by the Japanese navy. They weren't 100% sure but the idea was prisoners would receive better treatment from the IJN than they would from the Japanese Army. As they were told, "The Jap navy and army hate each other, they're mad at each other, the navy blames the army for the war so they may not be in a big rush to turn you over to the army." Such was the best information we had at the time. Goes without saying it wasn't necessarily true but that was the thing with the Japanese, you just couldn't be sure.
As hellish as the Bataan Death March was, some prisoners weren't abused at all and were treated pretty well.
Oh, and the Japanese getting German colonies in Asia as a reward for entering WW1 on the allied side? Anyone remember Tsing-Tao beer? It was brewed in a German-built brewery in China that the Japanese took over!
Flintlock76 wrote the following post[in part] "... Such was the best information we had at the time. Goes without saying it wasn't necessarily true but that was the thing with the Japanese, you just couldn't be sure.
As hellish as the Bataan Death March was, some prisoners weren't abused at all and were treated pretty well..."
The stories I've over the years were not quite that 'rosey'(?) The above linked site tell a different tale. And a note from that site: "...All told, the total number of prisoners was double what Japanese Lieutenant General Masaharu Homma was expecting.
Since he lacked the vehicles to move the prisoners elsewhere, he decided to make the prisoners march 70 miles in the sweltering tropical heat. On April 9, 1942, the Bataan Death March began.
With little food or water, the prisoners soon began dropping like flies. Others were made to sit in direct sunlight without helmets or protection. Some were stabbed or beaten at random while others were shot if they asked for water. Trucks would run over those who were unable to continue the march.
After the long march, the prisoners arrived at the train station of San Fernando, where they were forced into boxcars in which temperatures reached heights of 110 degrees Fahrenheit. Many prisoners died in the trains..."
Site has more, and a number of photos.
Linked site @ https://allthatsinteresting.com/bataan-death-march
I never knew anyone who had any connection with the Bataan Death March. But, a son of one of the trustees of my college died in the march, and the college building which housed the adminstrative offices and the non-physical science faculty and classrooms was named after him. As his family name was "Hay," we spoke of the "Hay Barn."
I did know some of his cousins; one of his father's cousins gave me piano lessons and was also my7th and 8th grade English teacher, and another of his father's cousins was our school superintendant--and his younger son was one of my classmates.
Johnny
One of my high school friends that I was close to had a father who survived the Death March and the years of captivity in a Japanese POW camp in the Phillippines. Later came the Hell Ship voyage to Japan where he dug coal in a condemned mine. Because I was studying to become a history teacher and already knew a good deal about the events of WW2, he respected me enough to open up several times about his experiences. I don't recall him ever saying that the Death March wasn't so bad for some people. In fact, he had tears in his eyes as he described it to me (and it felt as if my hair were standing up as he did).
He had an eduring love for the Fillipino people and returned there twice as a tourist of sorts.
Once, when things for me looked very bleak, he gave me this bit of encouragement: "Remember," he said, "they can always cut your rice ration." By which he meant, things can always get worse, so buck up. He was right, of course.
He lived into his 90's, was very patriotic, and now rests in honored glory in Arlington National Cemetery.
Flintlock76I wonder where the author of "Shattered Sword" got the information from. What witnesses were willing to talk about it? I'm not questioning the truth of the statement but I AM curious as to the source.
Japanese records, of course. See here, for example.
I'm all for PC kindness to our former enemies now that the battles are long over, code of the warrior and all that, but I'm not giving these wretches a free pass. You shouldn't, either. These were not cultured and witty people like, say, Heydrich.
OvermodThese were not cultured and witty people like, say, Heydrich.
Wait.. what?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannWait.. what?
I'm being sarcastic... but yeah, look it up.
Beria was a good family man, too.
Thanks for the link!
"Japanese records say the both met their end with dignified defiance." Japanese records. I thought only the Nazis were stupid enough to leave a paper trail of their crimes.
And no I'm not, nor am I prepared to give anyone a free pass. I only quote what I've read from various sources. And just to make it plain, it was NEVER my intention to down-play the horrors of the Bataan Death March, exceptions DON'T make the rule, by any means. So please don't misunderstand, I know damn well how the vast majority of Allied POW's were treated by the Japanese.
I'm also of the opinion that every German and Japanese war criminal that was strung up after the war got exactly what what coming to him.
Rheinhard Heydrich got what was coming to him as well, but considering the horrific aftermath wasting him was a terrible mistake. But hindsight's 20/20 as they say, and if the "Operation Anthropoid" planners had any idea of the Nazi's terrible revenge they never would have gone through with it.
And interestingly, the Nazi's didn't make any attempt to hush-up that revenge.
OvermodI'm being sarcastic... but yeah, look it up.
I was hoping you were. But with this site, you can't always tell.
zugmann Overmod I'm being sarcastic... but yeah, look it up. I was hoping you were. But with this site, you can't always tell.
Overmod I'm being sarcastic... but yeah, look it up.
There isn't a 'sarcastic' emoticon that is a part of the sites emoticon menu. The printed word doesn't convey sarcasm as well as face to face interpersonal communications.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Overmod Beria was a good family man, too.
He also kept a written record, of all his "actions" with women. Contact info and everything.
The rest of the Soviet leadership knew exactly what he was. Apparently Stalin once learned that his daughter had gone to visit Beria at his house. His response was to immediately phone and tell her to leave.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I've seen photos of Heydrich's car after the assassination in Prague. Its sitting in the street with bomb damage and there's no one around. That always seemed odd.
In France there is a small town called Ouradour sur Glane. The nazis gave it the semi-Lidice treatment when they killed everyone and burned down all the buildings and left cars on the street (minus the tires) and it has never been determined just why it happened. There is no record of any German officer being killed, nothing. The entire town is a monument and left as the French found it at the end of the war. The shells of the stone buildings are still there and the cars are rusted hulks.
You can find the Ouradour-sur-Glane story on-line without too much difficulty, but from what I've read the situation was this.
There was an SS unit moving toward the Normandy area to re-enforce the German forces there. On the way they were attacked by a French resistance unit, an attack they brushed off pretty quickly.
However, this WAS the SS, and as far as they were concerned that wasn't the end of the matter. The next town they came to on their line of march was Oradour-sur-Glane. As an "object lesson" the SS massacred the towns entire population, some by shooting, some by locking them in the town church and setting it ablaze. Then they went on their way.
The French from the surrounding area buried the dead, and after the war the French government stabilized the ruins and left the town as it was as a memorial.
To this day, no French resistance group has ever claimed credit for the attack on the SS, nor has any veteran of the same come forward to say "I was there." Understandable. The locals in the area now say the moral of the story is "If you see a sleeping dragon don't poke it in the eye with a stick!"
Thanks Flintlock- I never knew that about a resistance attack on the SS. I don't imagine that there's anyone left who was there.
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