I'm seeing a lot more Sioux Quartzite rock being shipped south by rail out of Dell Rapids S.D. quarries these days. They must be getting ready for a lot of flooding on the lower Missouri and Mississippi rivers again this year.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Railroad ballast size or rip-rap (embankment protection) size?
- PDN.
It is ballast time of year for most all Class 1's. Start of heavy duty track maintenance.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
A lot of both. One BNSF train had a car consisting of swing-out road grader type blades.
BaltACDIt is ballast time of year for most all Class 1's. Start of heavy duty track maintenance.
I've seen several loaded ballast trains going through Tehachapi in the past week or two. Both roads with company cars have been seen. Plus there has been some rail swapping around the loop and Woodford siding and after the initial "delivery" for that project, another full UP rail train was heading east. "All the live-long day" comes to mind.
Do UP and BNSF use "Rock Gondolas"?
Railroads use ballast hoppers which (depending with the car) can unload side to side between the rail or lengthwise between the rail. Both have two or three doors under the cars. A tie is used to distribute the ballast by having the tie snugged up again one wheel set on a car. The ballast cars are usually in a "company service" of numbers. The BN used 900000 series for all their company service cars.
Ed Burns
Retired Roadmaster's Clerk from Northtown.
NP EddieRailroads use ballast hoppers which (depending with the car) can unload side to side between the rail or lengthwise between the rail. Both have two or three doors under the cars. A tie is used to distribute the ballast by having the tie snugged up again one wheel set on a car. The ballast cars are usually in a "company service" of numbers. The BN used 900000 series for all their company service cars. Ed Burns Retired Roadmaster's Clerk from Northtown.
Many of the carriers have upgraded their ballast operations to the Herzog form of GPS controlled 'automatic' ballast trains that can drop ballast at the points that have been programmed for the track segment while in continuous motion at between 10 & 15 MPH.
On CSX when the Herzog trains were operated they were followed by MofW personnel in a hi-rail to 'rectify' any problematic situation that they see in following the train. Dumping ballast in the manner NP Eddie described is time intensive and doesn't permit the spreading of much ballast in the track time available.
21st Century railraods are all about accomplishing a maximum amount of necessary track work in a minimum of track time. The GPS ballast trains perform this.
I once watched the C&O dump ballast in the manner Eddie describes, but with a standard hopper.
OTOH, during tie replacement through Deshler on the CSX Toledo sub last year, they dumped ballast as Balt describes. They then redistributed it with a ballast regulator, then tamped using a tamping machine.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD21st Century railraods are all about accomplishing a maximum amount of necessary track work in a minimum of track time. The GPS ballast trains perform this.
We use both. Depends on the size and scope of the project. And the fact those Herzog trains are big bucks. They rarely sat for long when I used to work the board that covered a quarry that loaded them regularly.
Esp now they have Brandt trucks - MOW isn't dependent on hoping there's a locomotive/rested T&E crew avaliable.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Dyer Quarry? Pottstown Trap Rock (Sanatoga) Quarry?
Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline.
BaltACD NP Eddie Railroads use ballast hoppers which (depending with the car) can unload side to side between the rail or lengthwise between the rail. Both have two or three doors under the cars. A tie is used to distribute the ballast by having the tie snugged up again one wheel set on a car. The ballast cars are usually in a "company service" of numbers. The BN used 900000 series for all their company service cars. Ed Burns Retired Roadmaster's Clerk from Northtown. Many of the carriers have upgraded their ballast operations to the Herzog form of GPS controlled 'automatic' ballast trains that can drop ballast at the points that have been programmed for the track segment while in continuous motion at between 10 & 15 MPH. On CSX when the Herzog trains were operated they were followed by MofW personnel in a hi-rail to 'rectify' any problematic situation that they see in following the train. Dumping ballast in the manner NP Eddie described is time intensive and doesn't permit the spreading of much ballast in the track time available. 21st Century railraods are all about accomplishing a maximum amount of necessary track work in a minimum of track time. The GPS ballast trains perform this.
NP Eddie Railroads use ballast hoppers which (depending with the car) can unload side to side between the rail or lengthwise between the rail. Both have two or three doors under the cars. A tie is used to distribute the ballast by having the tie snugged up again one wheel set on a car. The ballast cars are usually in a "company service" of numbers. The BN used 900000 series for all their company service cars. Ed Burns Retired Roadmaster's Clerk from Northtown.
It is ballast time of year for most all Class 1's. Start of heavy duty track maintenance..."
In this area, onr the Eastern end of BNSF's Southern Transcon; It is not hard to see this change in seasonal MOW activities on, particularly,BNSF .
Currently, there has been noted by some of the Forum Posters, what may be some major activities in regards to adding additional trackage to the BNSF thru the Flint Hills. {Mattfield Green)and on towards ElDorado,Ks (?).
Recently, there was a 'large' LORAM grinding train working South of Wichita ( Ark City Sub @ Derby, Ks). GREX has hadone of their 'Dump Trains' stockpiling ballast around the Mulvane area) . Noticed one of HERZOG's 'Solar Ballast Trains' going East from here towards Augusta,Ks. and friday, a BNSF train went East, It had at least a half dozen cars loaded with pre-assembled track switches, and several cars stacked with pre-assembled track panels; it also had a number of Company hopper cars loaded with what looked like new ties...Even with all that is going on with the COVID19 pandemic; looks like the railroad is still working to get their 'Spring' MOW covered(?)
One thing I noticed was that on 16 March 2020 LORAM of Hamel, MN is merging with GREX of Georgetown,TX. See link @ https://www.loram.com/loram-and-grex-announce-merger/
While I was snowbirding in Jacksonville there was a Herzog GPS ballast train parked in the FEC's Bowden Yard - never turned a wheel in the 2+ months I was there.
samfp1943the BNSF thru the Flint Hills. {Mattfield Green)and on towards ElDorado,Ks (?).
Murphy Siding samfp1943 the BNSF thru the Flint Hills. {Mattfield Green)and on towards ElDorado,Ks (?). Kansas has hills? I guess I've only been through the flat part.
samfp1943 the BNSF thru the Flint Hills. {Mattfield Green)and on towards ElDorado,Ks (?).
Kansas has hills? I guess I've only been through the flat part.
The hills surround the river valleys - every river is surrounded by hills, some are more noticeable than others.
Paul_D_North_JrOnly other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline.
Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast.
MidlandMike Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline. Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast.
Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline.
Murphy Siding MidlandMike Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline. Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast. I thought limestone was pretty soft and would turn to dust like all the gravel roads north of Omaha.
I thought limestone was pretty soft and would turn to dust like all the gravel roads north of Omaha.
Tree: Once you open a conventional coal hopper filled with ballast, the flow can't be stopped until the thing is empty. All the the come-alongs and chains in the world are not gonna stop it. The MK/Miner gate hoppers are a big step forward followed by the hydraulic/pneumatic variable flow automatic gates. You are no longer so reliant on the skills of your ballast regulator operator either - You cut down on waste and spot dumping the way things are handled now.
mudchickenTree: Once you open a conventional coal hopper filled with ballast, the flow can't be stopped until the thing is empty.
It's a 50+ year old memory - details may be a bit fuzzy, and I didn't have the railroad knowledge I have now. I do recall that the hopper door was chained so it wouldn't swing fully open.
mudchicken Murphy Siding Murphy Siding MidlandMike Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline. Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast. I thought limestone was pretty soft and would turn to dust like all the gravel roads north of Omaha. Turns to dust in a New York second. Fouls everything around it filling the voids and holds water instead of draining. Facillitates ballast pumping and mudholes and isn't hard enough by a longshot. Sucky stuff.
Murphy Siding
Turns to dust in a New York second. Fouls everything around it filling the voids and holds water instead of draining. Facillitates ballast pumping and mudholes and isn't hard enough by a longshot. Sucky stuff.
Like I said, depends on what's available. Lots of good limestone in northern LP Michigan. Some limestone is harder than others. Subsoil is pretty sandy, and the lines in northern Mich don't get that much traffic.
MidlandMike mudchicken Murphy Siding MidlandMike Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline. Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast. I thought limestone was pretty soft and would turn to dust like all the gravel roads north of Omaha. Turns to dust in a New York second. Fouls everything around it filling the voids and holds water instead of draining. Facillitates ballast pumping and mudholes and isn't hard enough by a longshot. Sucky stuff. Like I said, depends on what's available. Lots of good limestone in northern LP Michigan. Some limestone is harder than others. Subsoil is pretty sandy, and the lines in northern Mich don't get that much traffic.
mudchicken Murphy Siding MidlandMike Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline. Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast. I thought limestone was pretty soft and would turn to dust like all the gravel roads north of Omaha. Turns to dust in a New York second. Fouls everything around it filling the voids and holds water instead of draining. Facillitates ballast pumping and mudholes and isn't hard enough by a longshot. Sucky stuff.
MidlandMike Paul_D_North_Jr Only other one I can think of out your way is Millard Quarry in Annville, but that's limestone, and I doubt any Class 1 would want that for mainline. Depends on what's available. Lots of Michigan lines use limestone ballast. I thought limestone was pretty soft and would turn to dust like all the gravel roads north of Omaha.
Lets not forget - once upon a time - both cinders and slag were used as ballast. As railroads matured they learned.
BaltACD Lets not forget - once upon a time - both cinders and slag were used as ballast. As railroads matured they learned.
And, many years back, there was an article in Trains about a "dirt track road" (MKT) in Oklahoma. It did not have much traffic.
Johnny
Deggesty And, many years back, there was an article in Trains about a "dirt track road" (MKT) in Oklahoma. It did not have much traffic.
CSSHEGEWISCHI remember that article. It covered MKT's long branch into the Oklahoma Panhandle.
It's a funny thing, but my entire knowledge of the Katy came from reading articles in Trains, and I thought they were among the most broken-down and primitive of railroads. It was only decades later that I learned 'the rest of the story' -- which is about as different as it could possibly be.
Gravel roads, being of local materials, quarried by local outfits, and bought at the cheapest cost/unit by local gov'ts, are generally not the hardest, nor best quality limestone.
Limestone used to make Portland cement (the 'powder' that binds sand and aggregate together to make concrete) is quite often very low strength, more chemically suitable, and much easier to convert into cement than harder types of limestone.
As a geologist and drilling specialist, I've worked with limestones ranging from soft, chalky stuff down in the 1,000 - 4,000 psi UCS range all the way to the 25,000 - 40,000 psi range. It all depends on how it was deposited, but that is a course all in itself.
crzinkGravel roads, being of local materials, quarried by local outfits, and bought at the cheapest cost/unit by local gov'ts, are generally not the hardest, nor best quality limestone.
A lot of chipped limestone is used here for "oil and stone" capping. And we have a lot of limestone - my house sits on it, and the sewer installation some years ago required a rock trencher for much of the work.
A city here used to use chipped limestone instead of sand for winter spreading. The problem was that they essentially had to chip it off the roads with a loader in the spring, as it turned into cement.
This being a glacial area, we've got plenty of gravel for our "dirt" roads.
A portion of the Buckinghan Branch RR (ex C&O) here in central Virginia passes through an area where rich deposits of slate are quarried and processed. Guess what gets crushed and then deposited along the roadbed. Admittedly, there are usually only a couple of trains a day..... rather short in length and slow in speed.
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