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How and Who Deternines Track Speed Limits

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 1:49 PM

daveklepper
Falcon 48, please remember that for every poster that makes comments that may annoy you, there are at least 50, probably 100, that do our best to keep our conversation as civil as possible and also deeply respect your own railroad knowledge.

"+1"

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:30 PM

Falcon48
I retired from the rail industry before PSR reared its ugly head.  But I would be very careful about casually buying into the knee jerk railfan reaction that PSR is nothing more than aberration cococted by bean counters just to cut costs by destroying service.  

I would opine that the prevailing feeling is that the cutting by the bean counters is/was not for the purpose of destroying service.  That's just a by-product.  The cutting is for the purpose of putting more money into the pockets of the activist investors.

That said - I've said before that PSR brings nothing new to the railroad game in terms of handling traffic.  Items like terminal dwell time and velocity have long been on the radar of the railroads.  That's old news that comes to the fore every now and then as a railroad re-invents it's operating plan (again).

As for scheduled, the New York Central, ca 1963, had on the back cover of ETT #14, for the Boston and Albany Division, "Operation Sunset."  The subtitle was "Protected Connections Pay Off - Let's Roll as Advertised."  

There were times listed for all connections.  One would presume that the emphasis was meeting those times.  Not precisely "scheduled," but pretty close.

According to what I've read about the CSX implementation of PSR, many cuts were made in support areas - sales, marketing, engineering, supervision, etc.  In fact, I believe there was a discussion here about the safety effects of reducing the number of supervisors.  

If I may draw a parallel, it's rather like a burger chain deciding that if they cut out inside service, they could save the costs of duplicate soda machines, cleaning, lights, etc.  Just run the drive-through.  May get a little less business, but it won't have the overhead.  More profits...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 9:00 PM

tree68
If I may draw a parellel, it's rather like a burger chain deciding that if they cut out inside service, they could save the costs of duplicate soda machines, cleaning, lights, etc.  Just run the drive-through.  May get a little less business, but it won't have the overhead.  More profits... Add Quote to your Post

We had a coule of fast food restaurants in our area try the drive-thru only concept.  Both are out of business, while the sit-down fast food joints are doing just fine.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 10:01 PM

MidlandMike
We had a couple of fast food restaurants in our area try the drive-thru only concept.  Both are out of business, while the sit-down fast food joints are doing just fine.

So, if we take that full circle...

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 5:51 PM

MidlandMike

 

 
tree68
If I may draw a parellel, it's rather like a burger chain deciding that if they cut out inside service, they could save the costs of duplicate soda machines, cleaning, lights, etc.  Just run the drive-through.  May get a little less business, but it won't have the overhead.  More profits... Add Quote to your Post

 

We had a coule of fast food restaurants in our area try the drive-thru only concept.  Both are out of business, while the sit-down fast food joints are doing just fine.

 

In the Des Moines and Ames is a local chain that is only drive through or walk up service that's doing good.  And growing.  They do have outdoor tables and benches, but nothing indoors.  Their newest store in Des Moines is supposed to have an indoor dining area. 

I'm afraid going away from their original model may backfire.  I suppose as long as they maintain their original menu (don't try to be something they're not) and food quality, they'll be OK.  

Jeff

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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:53 PM

jeffhergert

In the Des Moines and Ames is a local chain that is only drive through or walk up service that's doing good.  And growing.  They do have outdoor tables and benches, but nothing indoors.  Their newest store in Des Moines is supposed to have an indoor dining area. 

 

B-Bops?

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Posted by MMLDelete on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:56 PM

I went to a drive-thru-only Chick Fil-A place. Never knew of such a thing. I was parked in an adjacent shopping center parking lot and walked over. Circled the place twice, looking for the door for customers to get in. A lady in a car in the line gave me the scoop; I think she was afraid I was going to get run over. That place was doing a brisk business.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:21 PM

blhanel

 

 
jeffhergert

In the Des Moines and Ames is a local chain that is only drive through or walk up service that's doing good.  And growing.  They do have outdoor tables and benches, but nothing indoors.  Their newest store in Des Moines is supposed to have an indoor dining area. 

 

 

 

B-Bops?

 

Yes.

Jeff

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, November 27, 2019 10:50 PM

Been to several Checkers that are drive thru only.  Some do have a walk up window as well but not all.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, November 28, 2019 6:49 AM

Well, that took off in a different direction...

Just in case anyone is keeping track, that was not my intention.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 28, 2019 7:39 AM

Overmod, I am with you on Precision Scheduled Railroading, on cutting staff to the bone as it affects safety (especially with PSR in process and not complete) as well as track speed.  We should hear more from BSF, who do not claim to be implementing PSR.  How saisfied are their freight customers overall as comopared with the the five or six?   Should be on another tread, perhaps/

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, November 28, 2019 7:59 PM

I live near a small city.  The 2 drive-thru only restaurants I mentioned closed down, perhaps because there was not the population base to support them.  Nevertheless the town does support about every major fast food chain restaurant with both drive-thru and sit-down options.  It does not supprise me that large population centers can support some drive-thru onlys, but how many more of those would they support if they also had sit-down options?  Limiting options generally limits business, as long as there are competitors.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, November 28, 2019 9:29 PM

MidlandMike
I live near a small city.  The 2 drive-thru only restaurants I mentioned closed down, perhaps because there was not the population base to support them.

Another possible factor is the restaurants being gathering places for folks, especially senior citizens, who will often get together with friends for a morning coffee klatch, or the like.  This will be a bigger factor in a small town with few other options.

And we can't forget busses, including school team busses, which will often stop at fast food restaurants.  They may not eat in the lobby, but getting the bus through the drive-through would be an issue...

 

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, November 28, 2019 9:36 PM

tree68
 
MidlandMike
I live near a small city.  The 2 drive-thru only restaurants I mentioned closed down, perhaps because there was not the population base to support them. 

Another possible factor is the restaurants being gathering places for folks, especially senior citizens, who will often get together with friends for a morning coffee klatch, or the like.  This will be a bigger factor in a small town with few other options.

And we can't forget busses, including school team busses, which will often stop at fast food restaurants.  They may not eat in the lobby, but getting the bus through the drive-through would be an issue...

I am not sure what form of 'rest room' facilities that drive-in ONLY locations would have - without them they won't get the bus business from any age catagory.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, November 29, 2019 1:57 PM

tree68
They may not eat in the lobby, but getting the bus through the drive-through would be an issue...

Not just buses - but anyone with a larger vehicle.  Trucks, vans, dually work trucks, even my truck can be a pain in tighter areas.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 29, 2019 2:11 PM

BaltACD
I am not sure what form of 'rest room' facilities that drive-in ONLY locations would have - without them they won't get the bus business from any age category.

This leads me to wonder -- ARE there customer restrooms at places like Stewart's Root Beer?  I certainly don't remember there being any.  A few miles from me is one of those experimental drive-through-only McDonalds on a postage-stamp plot ... they have no place for even an outside-door gas-station-style restroom arrangement.

The old White Castle in Fairview near Nungesser's was intended as a service-only place, which had a very few (I think it was three) little bar-stool-like places.  It had restroom stalls ... pay stalls, the first place I remember having seen them still operational.  In the early '70s they were still a nickel.  Be interesting to see exactly how many nickels they'd get from a high-school busload, though -- the door would never quite click closed on an empty stall... Devil

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